For trinity believers: Does your world come unravelled if Jesus is not God,but ONLY Gods Son?

[ElishaElijah]

For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.

Yes, I agree, God sent His Son as a sin offering. This is a Baha'i teaching.

“Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things...... Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified.”​

Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 85-86​

But how is that related to the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ? Why was that necessary? What did it achieve? NOTHING.

I never claimed that because you say Jesus is God you are automatically saved.
Where did you ever get that idea?

I understand Christianity only too well. I am more convinced that you don't understand Christianity.
Maybe you are a Christian outlier but you don't seem to believe in the same things most Christians believe are most important.
Good for you because I don't believe in those things either!

What assumptions.

Want a list? Here are the most important things I believe are false.

1. Jesus is literally God in the flesh
2. Jesus is the only way to the Father, for all of time
3. Jesus was raised from the dead in a physical body, came back to life and walked around town
4. Those who believe in Jesus are saved by grace alone with no need for good deeds
5. Jesus is going to return to earth in the same body, a glorified physical body
6. Jesus is going to return and raise Christians from their physical graves on judgment day
7. Jesus is going to build the Kingdom of God on earth
8. There is a heaven for Christians and everyone else goes to hell

Well, not sure why you bother using the Bible at all, just re-write it to say whatever you want and put a name to it and calll it any name or faith you want to

 

[Trailblazer]

1 Corinthians 139-12
"For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known."

We can assume how would be on the other side , but it says that then we will know fully.
It does not say that is wrong.

I think we can only imagine what it will be like on the other side, we cannot know until we get there. Then we will know fully.

I agree
But that doesn't give evidence of the form.We can't know how we will be raised since death is needed as an act.

I agree, we cannot know what the form will be like.

“The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother. When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation.”​

Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 157​

But we can know that we will be raised in a spiritual body, not in a physical body.

1 Corinthians 15 New Living Translation

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

“The answer to the third question is this, that in the other world the human reality doth not assume a physical form, rather doth it take on a heavenly form, made up of elements of that heavenly realm.” Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 194​

You are denying only the form , when form is irrelevant.
Are you saying that you can't be raised spiritually and sense your physical body?

No, I am not saying that. If we are raised spiritually (raised to spiritual life) while we are still living in a physical body, we will sense that in our physical body.

I think we are talking past each other. After we die and our physical bodies will be buried and we will be raised as a spiritual body. That is the transformation that will take place in verse 51 above.

I agree also , but i note also that you quoted the verse that suits your understanding.

It was you who quoted that verse. I could quote others that have a similar meaning.

I like the progress..
We should agree more

I like that because I don't like arguing. I like finding points of agreement.

Ok , that applies also for Christians.
The Law of The Spirit is explained in parables.

We agree one more time.

Of course it includes Christians.

At least , i hope we will..

Me too.

Orthodox do not belive in the idea od Divine Simplicity the way that Catholics and Protestants do.

In Orthodox , we have different kind of philosophy,

Simplicity as applied to God is the doctrine that He is absolutely one in His essence, without any divisions. The simplicity of God means there is no composition or complexity of any kind in God, whether substantially or accidentally. He has no modes, parts, or poles. Whatever is appropriately attributed to Him is said of His absolutely one nature (essence). It also implies that God is without any capacity to be divided.

Are you an Orthodox Christian? Eastern Orthodox? My mother was raised as Greek Orthodox.
We agree once again, that God is one and cannot be divided into parts.

Baha’is believe in a Trinity, but it is different from the Trinitarian Christian belief. The detailed explanation is in this chapter: 27: THE TRINITY

In brief, here is how the Baha’i version of the Trinity operates.

The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one in the sense that they are ‘one in Purpose.’ All three work together, but the Son and the Holy Spirit are not ‘part of God.’

God is exalted above anything that can ever be perceived so God remains in His own high place, on His Throne. God never descends to earth. God is forever One and cannot be divided into parts.

God sent Jesus from heaven and Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit from the womb of Mary into a human body. Later, after Jesus reached a certain age, God sent the Holy Spirit to Him and it descended upon Him like a dove when Jesus was baptized. After Jesus received the Holy Spirit from God the Father, Jesus brought the Holy Spirit to believers and it dwelt in believers.

The Holy Spirit does not enter the body, but rather it has a direct connection to the body through the soul, which is associated with the mind. That is what the indwelling Holy Spirit means to a Baha'i.

So if you want to know more , i suggest this Book

https://www.jstor.org/stable/27903548

Thanks.

 

[Truthseeker]

Are you saying that Salvation by Grace and the gospel are essential but monotheism (one God) is not essential?

In my understanding there is salvation by grace but not by grace alone. The essentials listed did not specify by grace alone. I doubt that that was meant. The gospel to me is the teachings of Jesus, which are essential except for the particular law of divorce for that age, and little things like that. There are not very many of what I consider social laws in the teachings of Jesus. As to monotheism, what of the teachings of Buddha, where the essential thrust of His message is to minimize suffering by cultivating the Buddhahood within, the virtues within. God is not mentioned directly by the Buddha.

 

[Trailblazer]

The only people that receive eternal life are believers, born of the Spirit, Christians. That’s how your name is written in the Book of Life.

According to the Baha'i Faith, it is essential to believe in the divine origin of Christianity.

​

“As to the position of Christianity, let it be stated without any hesitation or equivocation that its divine origin is unconditionally acknowledged, that the Sonship and Divinity of Jesus Christ are fearlessly asserted, that the divine inspiration of the Gospel is fully recognized, that the reality of the mystery of the Immaculacy of the Virgin Mary is confessed, and the primacy of Peter, the Prince of the Apostles, is upheld and defended. The Founder of the Christian Faith is designated by Bahá’u’lláh as the “Spirit of God,” is proclaimed as the One Who “appeared out of the breath of the Holy Ghost,” and is even extolled as the “Essence of the Spirit.” The Promised Day is Come, p. 109​

But it is also essential to believe in Baha'u'llah.

 

[shunyadragon]

The Bible and its Author are not fallible.

The historical evidence is clear, texts of the Bible are mostly later edited and redacted compilations of unknown authorship or documentation as to the time they were supposed to be written. The Pentateuch was written after 699 BCE with no known texts before that. There are not independent records of the existence of Jesus during his lifetime and the gospels were compiled and edited later with known authors and were later assigned authors sometime after !00 AD

And Jesus is clearly God.

No, not according the Jews it is their Book in their language and their prophecies. The plain reading of almost all the prophecies in the Torah coern the promised future King or Kings of Israel, that restore the Jews to the homeland.

To claim He is not because your religion profoundly despises Him is not proof of anything - not about Jesus anyway.

The Baha'i Faith does not despise God.

 

[Trailblazer]

The Baha'i Faith does not despise God.

Nor do we despise Jesus.

 

[shunyadragon]

I have already answered this in another topic.

'Some have described the potassium-argon clock as being a clock without hands-without even a face.

Perfect example of this is the Richard Leakey case.He discovered Skull 1470 near the east shore of Lake Rudolf in Kenya and thought the skull was 2.6 million years old.Leakey’s Skull 1470 was initially dated at Cambridge Laboratory (England) with the potassium-argon method. The first date was 221 million years.After more tests they got another date of 1.8 million years from the University of California, Berkeley.'

So it is not as precise as we taught


We are talking about faith , and truth is more close to faith then science.

You did not respond to post #684 with my explanation of dating methods you misrepresent able. Yes dating of fossils improves over time to resolce conflicts and provide more accurate dates with multiple dating methods.

I decided this was off topic and will start a new thread on dating methods of fossils and rocks, Please address your questions there. Yes the above does lack a scientific reference and is incomplete concerning the problems of dating Leakey's fossil.

As far as your question on claims of Truth according to the scriptures. The problem remains that the claims of 'Truth' is variable and conflicting between different religions and even churches. The question of the interpretation of scriptures including prophecies is highly subjective,

An interesting challenge as per the topic of the thread is that the plain reading to the Torah clearly indicates the prophecies refer to the promised King or Kings of Israel to restore the Jews to the homeland in Palestine.

It would be difficult for you and other Christians here to cite one prophecy from the Torah that can be interpreted specifically without question to Jesus Christ, and not a future King of Israel.

 

[Dimi95]

I think we can only imagine what it will be like on the other side, we cannot know until we get there. Then we will know fully.

I agree

I agree, we cannot know what the form will be like.

We agree more.

So i think that more questions leads us to be more agreable?

“The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother. When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation.”​

Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 157​

But we can know that we will be raised in a spiritual body, not in a physical body.

1 Corinthians 15 New Living Translation

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

But you interprete how it would be different

The bible does not say how they are different

So we will not know fully

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

How do you separate natural and spiritual?

1 Corinthians 15:35-38
"But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body."

It continies explaiming in the same chapter
42-44
"So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. "

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.


51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

“The answer to the third question is this, that in the other world the human reality doth not assume a physical form, rather doth it take on a heavenly form, made up of elements of that heavenly realm.” Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 194​

But then you reject that the natural came first.

Why devide the natural and spiritual?
When you get to understand the spiritual.When you understand the spirit , then you can understand the flesh , so why deny it?

No, I am not saying that. If we are raised spiritually (raised to spiritual life) while we are still living in a physical body, we will sense that in our physical body.

But will you sence your physical body when you leave your natural body is the question , or?

I think we are talking past each other. After we die and our physical bodies will be buried and we will be raised as a spiritual body. That is the transformation that will take place in verse 51 above.

I just want to know what that means.
What does raised spiritually mean for you.That you won't be able to sence your physical body in the after?
How can you prove that?
That is not evidence based position.

It was you who quoted that verse. I could quote others that have a similar meaning.

It's OK

You wanted to state how you identify God's Oneness

I don't mind that

I like that because I don't like arguing. I like finding points of agreement.

We agree more , so cheers

Are you an Orthodox Christian? Eastern Orthodox?

Yes

My mother was raised as Greek Orthodox.
We agree once again, that God is one and cannot be divided into parts.

Whatever is appropriately attributed to Him is said of His absolutely one nature (essence). It also implies that God is without any capacity to be divided.

The question is : How you identify oneness?

Baha’is believe in a Trinity, but it is different from the Trinitarian Christian belief. The detailed explanation is in this chapter: 27: THE TRINITY

In brief, here is how the Baha’i version of the Trinity operates.

The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one in the sense that they are ‘one in Purpose.’ All three work together, but the Son and the Holy Spirit are not ‘part of God.’

God is exalted above anything that can ever be perceived so God remains in His own high place, on His Throne. God never descends to earth. God is forever One and cannot be divided into parts.

God sent Jesus from heaven and Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit from the womb of Mary into a human body. Later, after Jesus reached a certain age, God sent the Holy Spirit to Him and it descended upon Him like a dove when Jesus was baptized. After Jesus received the Holy Spirit from God the Father, Jesus brought the Holy Spirit to believers and it dwelt in believers.

The Holy Spirit does not enter the body, but rather it has a direct connection to the body through the soul, which is associated with the mind. That is what the indwelling Holy Spirit means to a Baha'i.

Thanks.

Again , this is not evidence based

You say there is One God.

Even the Demons belive that.

 

[Dimi95]

You did not respond to post #684 with my explanation of dating methods you misrepresent able. Yes dating of fossils improves over time to resolce conflicts and provide more accurate dates with multiple dating methods.

I decided this was off topic and will start a new thread on dating methods of fossils and rocks, Please address your questions there. Yes the above does lack a scientific reference and is incomplete concerning the problems of dating Leakey's fossil.

As far as your question on claims of Truth according to the scriptures. The problem remains that the claims of 'Truth' is variable and conflicting between different religions and even churches. The question of the interpretation of scriptures including prophecies is highly subjective,

An interesting challenge as per the topic of the thread is that the plain reading to the Torah clearly indicates the prophecies refer to the promised King or Kings of Israel to restore the Jews to the homeland in Palestine.

It would be difficult for you and other Christians here to cite one prophecy from the Torah that can be interpreted specifically without question to Jesus Christ, and not a future King of Israel.

I accept challenges

But sometimes i need to study/re-study some data to give answer.

I do analysis a lot , so i need to go to some data and you will get the answer.

 

[Trailblazer]

I agree

We agree more.

So i think that more questions leads us to be more agreeable?

I hope so.

But you interpret how it would be different

The bible does not say how they are different

So we will not know fully

The Bible says that the body that is raised will be 'different' than the body we have now.

1 Corinthians 15:44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

But the Bible does not say what a spiritual body consists of so we won't know how they are different until we die and get our new body.

How do you separate natural and spiritual?

1 Corinthians 15:35-38
"But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body."

It continies explaiming in the same chapter
42-44
"So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. "

I believe that a spiritual body is not physical, so it has no physical needs or desires, but that is all I believe we can know.

But then you reject that the natural came first.

I do not reject that the natural came first, I believe it came first.

Why divide the natural and spiritual?

I did not divide the natural and the spiritual, Jesus did that.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

When you get to understand the spiritual. When you understand the spirit, then you can understand the flesh , so why deny it?

One does not need to understand the spiritual in order to understand the natural.
Many people who do not understand the spiritual understand the natural.

A reason to deny the natural is because it causes us to lose sight of the spiritual.
Another reason to deny the natural is because it is only temporary. Why attach ourselves to what is only temporary?

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

John 12:24-26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Matthew 16:24-26 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Jesus was saying to deny our selfish desires, things we want that are not of God, and to follow in His Way. For whoever will live for self shall lose his eternal life, but whoever will sacrifice his life for the sake of Jesus and God shall gain eternal life. It is the soul that gets eternal life, not the body.

So if we live for self and the worldly things we gain the world but we lose our soul in the sense that we lose eternal life.

But will you sense your physical body when you leave your natural body is the question , or?

The physical body is synonymous with the natural body.
I do not believe we will sense our physical body/natural body when we leave it behind because there will be no sense organs.

I just want to know what that means.
What does raised spiritually mean for you.That you won't be able to sense your physical body in the after?
How can you prove that?
That is not evidence based position.

Raised spiritually means that we will be raised to life in the spiritual world and our soul will take on a spiritual body.

After we are raised spiritually we won't be able to sense our physical body because we won't have a physical body anymore.
I believe that the next life in the next world is spiritual, not physical. Thus there will be no need for food, water, sleep, or sex.
People might still desire those things but that will be hell for them since they will no longer be able to have what hey desire.

Of course I cannot prove that, it is a belief that is derived from my religious teachings.
Of course it is not evidence-based. How could we have evidence of a world that we have never been to?

Yes

Cool.

Whatever is appropriately attributed to Him is said of His absolutely one nature (essence). It also implies that God is without any capacity to be divided.

The question is : How you identify oneness?

The same as you do.

Again , this is not evidence based

You say there is One God.

Even the Demons believe that.

You say there is One God.
How is your belief evidence-based?
What is the evidence?
If you think you have evidence, why is your evidence any better than my evidence?

 

[shunyadragon]

I accept challenges

But sometimes i need to study/re-study some data to give answer.

I do analysis a lot , so i need to go to some data and you will get the answer.

Your in deep mud to begin with since your statements so far did not reflect the current knowledge of science dating of fossils, an despite your claims of 'analysis and study you lack the knowledge of the related sciences, and your responses reflect the bogus views of Answers in Genesis and the Discovery Institute. Their founding principle is they reject any science that conflicts with their literal interpretation of the Bible.

Please avoid the minefield of intentional ignorance of ICR, Answers in Genesis and the Discovery Institute and cite legitimate science sources.

 

[metis]

There are still errors in dating fossils.I assume also that with time they will be more accurate and we will know more.

The potential range of error on any dating process puts a number and then a + and - number to cover the range of possible error.

 

[shunyadragon]

I accept challenges

But sometimes i need to study/re-study some data to give answer.

I do analysis a lot , so i need to go to some data and you will get the answer.

The thread has begun here: Dating fossils and rock formations by scientific methods,

 

[stvdv]

The Baha'i Faith also has a Trinity concept, but it is different from the Christian concept.
The detailed explanation is in this chapter: 27: THE TRINITY

Below is my brief overview of the Baha'i belief.

The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one in the sense that they are ‘one in Purpose.’ They work together, but they are separate, not ‘part of God.’

In brief, here is how the Baha’i version of the Trinity operates.

God is exalted above anything that can ever be perceived so God remains in His own high place, on His Throne. God never descends to earth. God cannot be divided into parts.

God sent Jesus from heaven and Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit from the womb of Mary into a human body. Later, after Jesus reached a certain age, God sent the Holy Spirit to Him and it descended upon Him like a dove when Jesus was baptized. After Jesus received the Holy Spirit from God the Father, Jesus brought the Holy Spirit to believers and it dwelt in believers.

The Holy Spirit does not enter the body, but rather it has a direct connection to the body through the soul, which is associated with the mind. That is what the indwelling Holy Spirit means to a Baha'i.

Thank you sharing the Bahai view on Trinity

 

[Brian2]

Baha'is believe that reading and interpreting the verses in context is a better way to find the truth about the Bible.
Baha'is believe that the best way to find 'the whole truth' is to listen to what Baha'u'llah says is the truth.

Listening to Baha'u'llah and denying the Bible is the Baha'i way.
"Context" to a Baha'i is the Baha'u'llah is the return of Christ even when the Bible tells us that is not and cannot be so.

Acts 1:9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.
10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

That means that Baha'is have to deny the truth of the Bible.

 

[Brian2]

I see what Christians believe and why they believe it, but I don't think that belief has any basis in reality. Bodies do not float up into the sky, defying gravity.

As @Truthseeker said, that belief is based upon a 2nd century understanding of the Bible. We are able to know more now, in the 21st century.

So in the 21st century we know that people cannot walk on water or calm storms with a command so Jesus did not do those things?

 

[Brian2]

You have your head in the sand, in my opinion. You believe what you want to believe on this one.

As do you when you deny Luke as a historical source and treat him as guilty of error until proven right.
I try to look at what other historical sources have shown are the possibilities, and that shows that Luke could be correct.

 

[Brian2]

Yes, certainly we have a better understanding of where heaven is than the Christians did at that time. It is in no location. You said that also but why would Jesus have to ascend to the clouds if heaven has no location. It is unnecessary.

Why not. It may have been a symbolic ascension, so that the disciples knew where He was going and may be a symbolic descent by the same Jesus, the same way they saw Him ascend. However you kid yourself when you say we have a better understanding of where heaven is than Christians in the first century did.
The clouds took Him out of their sight and we don't know what happened to Jesus after that, except that He ended up in heaven.

 

[Brian2]

We believe that too. The details can be wrong, but it guides the Christians to the truth. The important truths are teachings like the so-called sermon on the mount. Whether Jesus was physically raised from the dead is unimportant. Whether Jesus is part of a triune God is unimportant. But Christians have fastened themselves to those details because they argued among themselves about those matters, and over time they became more important than the important truths, which is how we live our lives, and how we connect with God spiritually.

Baha'is make a big deal about the unimportant detail of whether Jesus was physically raised from the dead, and the Trinity (who Jesus is)
The atoning death and subsequent resurrection are the heart of the gospel message and are prophesied in the OT.
Isa 53 is shown in the NT to be about Jesus and shows what He did and the subsequent resurrection.
Baha'is deny that Isa 53 is about Jesus but claim it is about Baha'u'llah who did not die an atoning death or rise from the dead.
Baha'is go on to deny the physical resurrection of Jesus when the gospels tell us that is what happened.
We connect spiritually to the Lord Jesus who is joined to our spirit through His Spirit.
1Cor6:16 Or don’t you know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.” 17 But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with Him in spirit.

Christians are the Body of Christ, united spiritually to Christ, who lives in us by His Spirit.
This is something Baha'u'llah cannot do and certainly did not do with the disciples of Jesus to whom the Holy Spirit, the Advocate(Comforter) was promised.
John 14:16And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you.

 

[Brian2]

Imagine that. Basing one's entire belief system on one interpretation of three verses in the Bible....
Now that is what I call illogical.

On top of that, those verses were not even anything that Jesus said! It is only a story men told, not a story that is verifiable in any way.

Imagine that, believing what the so called return of Christ say about the prophecies in the NT about Jesus return, when they show that he (Baha'u'llah) is not the return of Christ.