For trinity believers: Does your world come unravelled if Jesus is not God,but ONLY Gods Son?

[Brian2]

You already said God serves humans. Now you are conflicting with your own statements. He serves but isnt a servant but is.

God and the one who is exactly like Him, serve us out of love, not because their nature is that of a servant.
Jesus had to take on the nature of a servant (Phil 2).
Jesus is not like Moses, a servant in the house of God, He is a son over the house. (Heb 3:5,6)

Jesus has always been a servant even before his human state. Phil 2 is refering to him bing a servant as a human.

Phil 2 refers to Jesus not wanting to violently take or cling onto equality with God but taking the form of a servant and becoming a man.
How does that show that Jesus has always been a servant? It shows that He became a servant.
[and the equality spoken about is --- if the JW translation has anything going for it---- having the same authority as His Father. As the Son He has the same nature, and He could have refused to become a servant and a human, thus usurping the Father's authority, but obeyed and waited to be exalted and given what belonged to Him anyway (John 16:15), the authority, Kingdom, name, glory etc etc. ]

Again Jesus didnt remain a man... he went to heaven- humans dont go there only spirits. Meaning if you are in heaven and were a human prior you arent one anymore. Humans are flesh, bones, blood, organs, nervous systems, etc.

Certainly a complete human has a body and is not just a spirit.
But humans can have any sort of body. The resurrection body for example is not exactly like our earthly body but is still the body of humans.
With the immortal resurrection body, humans can go to heaven. Jesus did, didn't He?

 

[seekandfind]

Ahh, now I remember, JWs are told that the Kingdom of God is a group of 144,000 men, the anointed class, led by Jesus, who are the Government. But I don't know what JWs think that this Government rules over if not the Kingdom of God.

Kingdoms/ governments are formed to rule over subjects and enforce laws. The Kingdom will cleanse and rule over the earth.

 

[seekandfind]

Well that is the JW interpretation of various verses and you believe the JW interpretation because the WT tells you it is correct and if you leave them it will not be good for you.

Who is the "faithful and discreet slave"?

 

[cataway]

Trinitarians know about YHWH.
Yes we are not equal to God. He serves us for our benefit.

imagine that , a God that serves man. piff

 

[Brian2]

imagine that , a God that serves man. piff

Really, you think that God has not and does not serve us?
Is there anything that you are grateful for?
I imagine you are not really grateful for Jesus death for us because you are saved through your works, being good enough.

 

[Brian2]

Who is the "faithful and discreet slave"?

Probably not the proud ones who say "It's us, look at us, we are the ones you have to come to and to listen to and be obedient to. Without us you are lost."
Jesus does not say who it is. But you know because the WT has told you about themselves.
And interestingly even that teaching has changed over the years.

 

[Brian2]

Kingdoms/ governments are formed to rule over subjects and enforce laws. The Kingdom will cleanse and rule over the earth.

I thought a Kingdom is the realm over which a King rules. So if Jesus is your King then you are in His Kingdom.

 

[cataway]

I thought a Kingdom is the realm over which a King rules. So if Jesus is your King then you are in His Kingdom.

"Ridicule is the weapon often used when the quiver is found empty."

 

[Brian2]

"Ridicule is the weapon often used when the quiver is found empty."

You feel ridiculed when all I did was say what I see the definition of "Kingdom" to be?

 

[seekandfind]

But they clearly have not given the domestics their food at the proper time. This is why they have had to alter their teachings, and on end times prophecies also as well as other teachings.
And how does anyone know whether what they have changed teachings to is any better than what they have been changed from?

God makes more and more truths known throughout time. Its always been that way. "But the path of the righteous is like the bright morning light That grows brighter and brighter until full daylight."- Prov 4:18. Id much rather be under those who are humble enough to admit when they are wrong than to be in a church where they teach false teachings without end.

You seem to forget Jehovah uses humans to help accomplish his will and that only Jesus has been a perfect human. No apostle or any disciple has ever been perfect nor has anyone else. Like i said id rather be with those who admit their wrongs than those who keep assuming they are right.

Aside from all that the proof is in the pudding. What did Jesus say needed to be accomplished before the end comes?

 

[seekandfind]

I thought a Kingdom is the realm over which a King rules. So if Jesus is your King then you are in His Kingdom.

Thats nothing different from what i said.

 

[Brian2]

God makes more and more truths known throughout time. Its always been that way. "But the path of the righteous is like the bright morning light That grows brighter and brighter until full daylight."- Prov 4:18. Id much rather be under those who are humble enough to admit when they are wrong than to be in a church where they teach false teachings without end.

You seem to forget Jehovah uses humans to help accomplish his will and that only Jesus has been a perfect human. No apostle or any disciple has ever been perfect nor has anyone else. Like i said id rather be with those who admit their wrongs than those who keep assuming they are right.

Aside from all that the proof is in the pudding. What did Jesus say needed to be accomplished before the end comes?

The light might grow brighter but it should all be light. When a so called false teaching is changed it means that the "false teaching" was actually darkness, not light.
The gospel is to be preached to the world, but if that gospel is a false gospel, the true gospel is not being taught and lies are being spread around as if they are the truth, and it produces confusion.

 

[Brian2]

Thats nothing different from what i said.

It's different. I know the teaching of the WT about what Kingdom means.
It is not the realm over which a King rules, it is the Government which rules which is the Kingdom according to the WT.

 

[seekandfind]

The light might grow brighter but it should all be light. When a so called false teaching is changed it means that the "false teaching" was actually darkness, not light.
The gospel is to be preached to the world, but if that gospel is a false gospel, the true gospel is not being taught and lies are being spread around as if they are the truth, and it produces confusion.

Its only darkness if it is against God. You are trying to put misunderstanding, truths that are not knownn, truths hidden by God, and wickedness into the same category- thats not how it works.

Gospel means good news. That gospel has never changed- not even in our teachings. Some details about how things play out in the end may have been misunderstood but the gospel of salvation through faith in Christs ransom and Gods Kingom have not.

Like i said, the proof is in the pudding. Christ gave a command to "spread that good news to every nation, tribe, and tongue and then the end will come." The reality is that we are teaching to the entire globe in over 1000 languages and continuing to add more reaching populations where only handfuls know their language. No one else even comes remotely close.

Instead of putting your focus on the WT, examine reality. How is your church doing on this global work? How is your local congregation participating? How often do you, as an idividual go out publically preaching as Jesus taught?

Who is the faithful and discreet slave, that Jesus promised, that feeds you? You dont even seem to have an idea. Try to stop pointing your fingure and answer these things.

 

[seekandfind]

It's different. I know the teaching of the WT about what Kingdom means.
It is not the realm over which a King rules, it is the Government which rules which is the Kingdom according to the WT.

Jesus is King of our Kingdom. You say thats what it means in one comment and deny it in the next.

 

[Brian2]

Jesus is King of our Kingdom. You say thats what it means in one comment and deny it in the next.

Are you saying that Jesus is your King and that you are in the Kingdom of God?

 

[Brian2]

Its only darkness if it is against God. You are trying to put misunderstanding, truths that are not knownn, truths hidden by God, and wickedness into the same category- thats not how it works.

Gospel means good news. That gospel has never changed- not even in our teachings. Some details about how things play out in the end may have been misunderstood but the gospel of salvation through faith in Christs ransom and Gods Kingom have not.

The gospel the WT teaches is not the gospel of the Bible and not all JWs have the same hope.

Like i said, the proof is in the pudding. Christ gave a command to "spread that good news to every nation, tribe, and tongue and then the end will come." The reality is that we are teaching to the entire globe in over 1000 languages and continuing to add more reaching populations where only handfuls know their language. No one else even comes remotely close.
Instead of putting your focus on the WT, examine reality. How is your church doing on this global work? How is your local congregation participating? How often do you, as an idividual go out publically preaching as Jesus taught?

Who is the faithful and discreet slave, that Jesus promised, that feeds you? You dont even seem to have an idea. Try to stop pointing your fingure and answer these things.

A gospel of works and obeying the WT Society is not the true gospel. You don't have to go preaching in public to be obeying the Lord.
The Church spreads the gospel under the guidance of the Lord, not the WT Society, and there might be many faithful and discreet servants in charge of many congregations, but the WT says "No we are the only faithful and discreet slave" when in fact it has shown that feeds untruths to it's people.

 

[seekandfind]

Are you saying that Jesus is your King and that you are in the Kingdom of God?

He is my King and Im awaiting for it to come to the earth.

 

[seekandfind]

The gospel the WT teaches is not the gospel of the Bible and not all JWs have the same hope.



A gospel of works and obeying the WT Society is not the true gospel. You don't have to go preaching in public to be obeying the Lord.
The Church spreads the gospel under the guidance of the Lord, not the WT Society, and there might be many faithful and discreet servants in charge of many congregations, but the WT says "No we are the only faithful and discreet slave" when in fact it has shown that feeds untruths to it's people.

We do teach the good news of the scriptures. You just dont agree. Pointing your finger wont change anything.

What gospel of works? Stop your accusations and have a conversation.

 

[Brian2]

He is my King and Im awaiting for it to come to the earth.

If the Kingdom is coming to the earth does that mean that Jesus and the Government of 144000 is going to be on earth or does that mean that the realm over which the King rules will be the earth and you will be in the Kingdom?
For me, I believe I am a member of the Kingdom even now if I believe and do the will of God. But also believe that the Kingdom in it's fullness is coming and the Kingdoms of this earth will become part of the Kingdom of God.
They won't be governing but will be part of the Kingdom anyway.
Rev 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and loud voices called out in heaven: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever.”