ElishaElijah
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When the Bible makes perfect sense seek no other sense or you will be believing nonsense.
Those verses are perfectly clear in what they say and are communicating.
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For trinity believers: Does your world come unravelled if Jesus is not God,but ONLY Gods Son?
- Thread starter seekandfind
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Those verses are perfectly clear in what they say and are communicating.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, Baha'is do not say that God is not good. We believe that God is All-Good.
“Men, however, have wittingly broken His law. Is such a behavior to be attributed to God, or to their proper selves? Be fair in your judgment. Every good thing is of God, and every evil thing is from yourselves. Will ye not comprehend? This same truth hath been revealed in all the Scriptures, if ye be of them that understand.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 149-150
Brian2
Veteran Member
Why do you say "False" when what I said was correct?
Then you change topic and seem to want to say that the OT God sins and reflects human characteristics.
Is it that you consider the Hebrew scriptures to be fictional and not the Word of God?
Brian2
Veteran Member
There was no tribal pantheon in Genesis and it does not tell us how God created it all, and science does not tell us that either, and science can come up with unverifiable educated guesses only.
The Bible is one account and Baha'i probably contradicts it and all other creation accounts of ancient religions. Baha'i is just one more contradictory account to add to the pile.
Only one account it true and the Bible just says "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." and contradicts nothing except a non creationist view, an atheist view.
The rest of the week of creation can fit what science has discovered unless you say it has to be read 100% literally and the days have to be 24 hour days etc.
As I have pointed out the Baha'i account is so confusing and in one place it teaches there was a creation and in another place teaches that there was no creation.
Brian2
Veteran Member
I did not mean that Baha'is say that God is not good, I meant that Baha'is say that Manifestations are not God, even though Jesus said that only God is good.
So Manifestations are good but not God. So Jesus was wrong.
And in the Bible the so called Manifestations are shown to sin, so the Bible Manifestations are not good.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
As I told you before, Jesus said that only God is good because He was humbling Himself towards God.
This was Jesus saying that 'compared to God' nobody is good, not even Himself (Jesus).
Manifestations of God are not God but they are 'as good as God' since they have all the qualities of God that make God good.
ElishaElijah
Return
Is Jesus Christ good or not?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Of course Jesus is good.
Brian2
Veteran Member
So Jesus was lying in order to show a false humility when in fact in Baha'i he was good like God is.
And it seems that in Baha'i even though nobody is good but God, the Manifestations are good when they are not God, and this is even though those called Manifestations in the Bible sinned (except Jesus).
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
You are free to believe you know, just as I am free to believe that I know, since we all have free will.
Truth about what?
Testimony from whom?
John 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The Word was God because Jesus was God manifested in the flesh
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
The Word means the divine perfections that "appeared" in Jesus. The Word is the "appearance of God."
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
The Word (Jesus) was made flesh when Jesus was born of Mary and dwelt among us. Jesus, who had previously been with God in the spiritual world (heaven) before His birth, was born into this world (made flesh) and walked among us.
Isaiah 9:6-7 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.
The Messiah who is to rule the earth and usher in a reign of blessing and peace that will have no end who holds the title of 'Everlasting Father' is not Jesus.
Isaiah 9:6-7 is not about Jesus. Jesus disclaimed being the Mighty God when He called Himself “the Son of God” (John 5:18-47) and in those verses Jesus repudiates the charge that He claimed equality with God. Jesus disclaimed being the everlasting Father when He said, “my Father is greater than I” (John 14:28) and Jesus disclaimed being the Prince of Peace when He said, “I came not to send peace, but a sword” (Matthew 10:34). Jesus disclaimed bearing the government upon His shoulder when He said to “rend onto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's” (Mark 12:17, Matthew 22:21). Jesus disclaimed that He would establish a kingdom where he would rule with judgment and justice forever when He said, “My kingdom is not of this world” (John 18:36).
On top of all that Jesus cannot be the Messiah of the end times who is going to establish the Kingdom of God on earth because Jesus said He was no more in this world and His work was finished here.
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
That was true during the Dispensation of Jesus, which that verse applied to, but that dispensation is now over.
Dispensation
- the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
- an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
- a divinely appointed order or age:
Definition of dispensation | Dictionary.com
Christians believe that Jesus is the center of everything, and they can find verses that they 'believe' show that.
Likewise, I can find verses that refute that.
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
And Cain went out from the presence of YHWH, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
Genesis 4:16
. . . because it is false
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
It was not a lie because Jesus meant that there is no one as good as God. It was not a false humility. It was a true humility.
Many people are good, and the Manifestations of God were good, but nobody is as good as God. That is what Jesus meant in Mark 10:18
Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
No Manifestations of God ever sinned. What you might consider a sin was not a sin in God's eyes.
No Jesus did not lie. You just interpret sciectripture in Hellenist Roman perspective making Jesus a Roman Demigod.
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That is correct, creation has always existed, which implies that it was not created by anyone, but that does not mean that the world and humans have always existed since creation is everything in existence, not only what is on earth.
Baha'u'llah's writings indicate that God created man, but man is only part of the whole creation, which includes everything in the universe.
3: O SON OF MAN! Veiled in My immemorial being and in the ancient eternity of My essence, I knew My love for thee; therefore I created thee, have engraved on thee Mine image and revealed to thee My beauty.
4: O SON OF MAN! I loved thy creation, hence I created thee. Wherefore, do thou love Me, that I may name thy name and fill thy soul with the spirit of life.
Yes, I like the simplicity of the Bible, and it has to be stated simply back when the Bible was written since the people being addressed could not understand the complexity of the Baha'i writings. Heck, even in this age a lot of people cannot understand what Baha'u'llah wrote.
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
Alternatively, Muhammad is Jesus, the Bab is Jesus, Baha'u'llah is Jesus.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Humans were not created the way it says in Genesis. Humans evolved over the course of time.
But you could say that God created humans since God set the process of evolution into motion.
It was by the will of God that humans and everything else in the heavens and on earth came into existence, as it is described in Genesis, so in that sense Genesis is correct. It just did not all happen in six days.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
How do you figure that? They share the same Holy Spirit but they were different people with different missions on earth.
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
In a spiritual sense they are identical, on the material plane they are different. (I'm paraphrasing the Kitab-i-Iqan).
According to Jesus (Matthew 7:21), God’s Will is something we can do, and it must be pretty important!
So, In your view, what is God’s will?