For Women: Wonder Woman is super sexist and now I'm confused...

[1137]

Slight spoilers here. Wonder Woman is being applauded as a great equalizer, taking on sexism with a bad[butt] heroine... who dresses like a hooker, immediately goes for the penis when she meets a man, begs him to sleep next to her, and only can save the day because she fell in love with his beautiful blue eyes. I'm sorry to women out there if I seem ignorant, but is this really the dream: to be objectified as sex starved, promiscuous, scantly clad objects who cannot accomplish their goals without a sexy man? I really don't get it, this is how you've been portrayed for so long and suddenly it's magically empowering, not sexist? I need someone to help me out here.

 

[Skwim]

Link?

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[1137]

Link?

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To...

 

[Skwim]

To...

To something showing Wonder Woman is being applauded as a great equalizer, taking on sexism with a bad[butt] heroine... who dresses like a hooker, immediately goes for the penis when she meets a man, begs him to sleep next to her, and only can save the day because she fell in love with his beautiful blue eyes.

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[ADigitalArtist]

Obviously I don't speak for all feminists as there's a huge amount of diversity of opinion under that umbrella but here's my take:

dresses like a hooker

Or a female version of an Athenian soldier. The outfit is comic-y but at least the camera framing prevented it from being cheesecake shot after cheesecake shot. And, rather unlike Black Widow in the marvel movies, does not fight in a style halfway to pole dancing and strangle men in improbable thigh grabs. Instead, her stance is low, quasi-wrestler/brawler style. I appreciate that.

immediately goes for the penis when she meets a man, begs him to sleep next to her

I didn't interpret it that way. The relationship is entirely on her terms and she makes it positively clear she doesn't have the sexual hangups he does. She told him that sleeping next to her isn't a sexual thing when he suggests it, and even goes on to muse about how she doesn't really need sex, as women are just fine at pleasuring themselves. It's not until after he demonstrates his principals that she agrees with that they hook up.
Also, this is her comic backstory, handled way better than I could have ever hoped.

and only can save the day because she fell in love with his beautiful blue eyes.

How's that? His self-sacrifice spurred her on, that's a pretty far cry from her victory not being her own. Again, pretty common comic trope. Hell the loss of a mentor/companion to spur the hero on is a classic hero's journey trope.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Incidentally my favorite feminism related action movie is still Mad Max: Fury Road. Not explicitly for that reason, the cinematography and music are a large part of it. But all the same.

 

[1137]

Incidentally my favorite feminism related action movie is still Mad Max: Fury Road. Not explicitly for that reason, the cinematography and music are a large part of it. But all the same.

I have (unforgivably) not seen this yet.

 

[1137]

Obviously I don't speak for all feminists as there's a huge amount of diversity of opinion under that umbrella but here's my take:


Or a female version of an Athenian soldier. The outfit is comic-y but at least the camera framing prevented it from being cheesecake shot after cheesecake shot. And, rather unlike Black Widow in the marvel movies, does not fight in a style halfway to pole dancing and strangle men in improbable thigh grabs. Instead, her stance is low, quasi-wrestler/brawler style. I appreciate that.


I didn't interpret it that way. The relationship is entirely on her terms and she makes it positively clear she doesn't have the sexual hangups he does. She told him that sleeping next to her isn't a sexual thing when he suggests it, and even goes on to muse about how she doesn't really need sex, as women are just fine at pleasuring themselves. It's not until after he demonstrates his principals that she agrees with that they hook up.
Also, this is her comic backstory, handled way better than I could have ever hoped.


How's that? His self-sacrifice spurred her on, that's a pretty far cry from her victory not being her own. Again, pretty common comic trope. Hell the loss of a mentor/companion to spur the hero on is a classic hero's journey trope.

Hmm, I hate when you make so much sense. I guess I just didn't get much of that feel. The outfit, for example, is something often changing on male superheros. It seems strange that they felt the need to keep the obviously fetishistic outfit, while batman was allowed to lose the batnipples. I also think the movie makes it clear that the end is based in her love for him, with the rather unnecessary mid-battle flashback conversation we inaudibly watched a minute before. There's no real romantic build up either, just her staring into his freaking beautiful face (and junk, of course).

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Hmm, I hate when you make so much sense. I guess I just didn't get much of that feel. The outfit, for example, is something often changing on male superheros. It seems strange that they felt the need to keep the obviously fetishistic outfit, while batman was allowed to lose the batnipples. I also think the movie makes it clear that the end is based in her love for him, with the rather unnecessary mid-battle flashback conversation we inaudibly watched a minute before. There's no real romantic build up either, just her staring into his freaking beautiful face (and junk, of course).

Thems the breaks for comic book movies I'm afraid. Or just singular movies based on series. Lack of romantic development. I can't really think of an example in this kind of action movie, especially in a comic book movie, where the romance felt completely earned, no matter who it's between. But I think they did an admirable job with the material they had.

And hey, speaking of fetishy, at least she didn't end up getting tied up by her own rope like she did so frequently in the comics. Lol.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I have (unforgivably) not seen this yet.

I highly recommend it. The music changed how the movie industry did music, and you see the trill from it, original in that movie, everywhere now. Plus just some damn good car chases (or two thirds of the movie really.)

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Also, because I swear it's possible to be a feminist and have a sense of humor

 

[SomeRandom]

Did you just **** shame Wonder Woman whilst simultaneously complaining that her portrayal was sexist? I guess a woman being comfortable in her own skin enough to wear the Wonder Woman outfit is rather "sexist." Oh wait. Wonder Woman's outfit has always been revealing. Which itself is a powerful statement against the very judgements society and you yourself made against such women who choose to wear such clothing. Don't go putting your sexual hangups on Wonder Woman, man. Not cool.

And how dare Wonder Woman have desires and flaws like a human being? If they didn't put that in people would complain she was just some robot or ice queen without a semblance of humanity. But you know interpretation of media, any media, usually says more about the person interpreting it than it does the original product or even the creator/s. Just saying.

 

[1137]

Did you just **** shame Wonder Woman whilst simultaneously complaining that her portrayal was sexist? I guess a woman being comfortable in her own skin enough to wear the Wonder Woman outfit is rather "sexist." Oh wait. Wonder Woman's outfit has always been revealing. Which itself is a powerful statement against the very judgements society and you yourself made against such women who choose to wear such clothing. Don't go putting your sexual hangups on Wonder Woman, man. Not cool.

And how dare Wonder Woman have desires and flaws like a human being? If they didn't put that in people would complain she was just some robot or ice queen without a semblance of humanity. But you know interpretation of media, any media, usually says more about the person interpreting it than it does the original product or even the creator/s. Just saying.

Yes, because it's not like Wonder Woman was sexualized and less than treated equally in the past as well. I think it's awesome that DC finally have given female characters lead, solo roles. This is truly a good step forward. But it's literally the only step I see. Give me the WW from BvS, a truly equal if not superior female hero who is ancient and mysterious, not who is memorized by the eyes of a pretty man who quit heroing because their boyfriend died.

 

[suncowiam]

Also, because I swear it's possible to be a feminist and have a sense of humor

OMG. I was cracking up so hard.

 

[suncowiam]

All the male super heroes are sexualized too. I guess you only notice the females. I wonder why.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Yes, because it's not like Wonder Woman was sexualized and less than treated equally in the past as well. I think it's awesome that DC finally have given female characters lead, solo roles. This is truly a good step forward. But it's literally the only step I see. Give me the WW from BvS, a truly equal if not superior female hero who is ancient and mysterious, not who is memorized by the eyes of a pretty man who quit heroing because their boyfriend died.

Ugh BvS. In addition to the horrible editing, a Superman and Batman that entirely missed their characters, there is also that Lois (the ultimate woman as window dressing) pretty much was only there to hide and then hand off the McGuffin weapon.
WW was the best thing about that movie, but that was not a hard feat to achieve. And I didn't see it as mysterious, just not covered in that movie. Probably because I already knew her origin story which includes the Steve Trevor storyline.

 

[1137]

All the male super heroes are sexualized too. I guess you only notice the females. I wonder why.

Not at all, look at the ripped muscles on Batfleck. And always with the shirts off. The problem is nobody is claiming Batman v Superman is some huge leap for men being treated respectfully.

 

[1137]

Ugh BvS. In addition to the horrible editing, a Superman and Batman that entirely missed their characters, there is also that Lois (the ultimate woman as window dressing) pretty much was only there to hide and then hand off the McGuffin weapon.
WW was the best thing about that movie, but that was not a hard feat to achieve. And I didn't see it as mysterious, just not covered in that movie. Probably because I already knew her origin story which includes the Steve Trevor storyline.

Did you watch the "finished" version? I have no clue why the theatrical cut was ever released. You know that Batman goes nuts many times over, and superman literally becomes a fascist dictator I assume. Snyder purposely interpreted them in a new way because not ever adaption needs to be identical to traditional ones.

And I don't get the hate for Lois, she literally out detectives Batman.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Did you watch the "finished" version? I have no clue why the theatrical cut was ever released. You know that Batman goes nuts many times over, and superman literally becomes a fascist dictator I assume. Snyder purposely interpreted them in a new way because not ever adaption needs to be identical to traditional ones.

And I don't get the hate for Lois, she literally out detectives Batman.

I'm fine with interpreting in new directions. But I also feel that some are interesting new takes on classic characters and others are just poorly thought out. A mopey, sad puppy-eyed, whiny superman is up near the tippy top of the list. It's like making Spider-Man a pessimist (which he was, while under the venom influence. And it was clear that it's supposed to be not nornal.) Or making Ironman the altruistic moral center of the Avengers.

Similarly, a Batman who takes up firearms because he's extra jaded, or stops caring about all the collateral damage he's causing, is antithetical to his character when played straight.

The only reason Lois 'out detectives' him is because he's written so terribly as to hardly be considered one.
I've seen some great comic runs where Lois is used to her potential. But BvS was not one of them, imo. BvS was not that for anyone, and I do believe that was the worst Luthor I've ever seen portrayed. Jar of pee and all.

 

[1137]

Im fine with interpreting in new directions. But I also feel that some are interesting new takes on classic characters and others are just poorly thought out. A mopey sad puppy eyed whiny superman is up near the tippy top of the list. It's like making Spider-Man a pessimist (which he was, while under the venom influence. And it was clear that it's supposed to be not nornal.)
Similarly, a Batman who takes up firearms because he's extra jaded, or stops caring about all the collateral damage he's causing. The only reason Lois 'out detectives' him is because he's written so terribly as to hardly be considered one.
I've seen some great comic runs where Lois is used to her potential. But BvS was not one of them, imo. BvS was not that for anyone, and I do believe that was the worst Luthor I've ever seen portrayed. Jar of pee and all.

I saw superman as still a very young hero, struggling with his power and place in the world.