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For Women: Wonder Woman is super sexist and now I'm confused...

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I saw superman as still a very young hero, struggling with his power and place in the world.
I didn't see it that way. If there's anything that has defined the straight underlying core of Superman throughout the his mythos, it's that optimism. Even in his origin stories. The absolute best Superman and Batman stories were concerning that optimism balanced by Batman's realism.
Man of Steel doesn't do that, but instead tries to turn an ultimately bright, colorful and cheerful story into gritty dreary grays more because it was popular than because it's something that fits the story. From the abysmal 'advice' given by Sup's adopted father, to making Sups also uncaring about the collateral damage he causes.

I wrote in an edit earlier but this would be like trying to make Ironman the altruistic moral center of the Avengers simply because that take hasn't been done yet. It's sacrificing cohesive mythology for the sake of an idea that doesn't really add anything to that mythology.

And if it really was about making Sups young and struggling, there are better ways to do it than make him seem like a Young Adult fiction character, with the petulance and angst of someone half his age
 
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1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
I didn't see it that way. If there's anything that has defined the straight underlying core of Superman throughout the his mythos, it's that optimism. Even in his origin stories. The absolute best Superman and Batman stories were concerning that optimism balanced by Batman's realism.
Man of Steel doesn't do that, but instead tries to turn an ultimately bright, colorful and cheerful story into gritty dreary grays more because it was popular than because it's something that fits the story. From the abysmal 'advice' given by Sup's adopted father, to making Sups also uncaring about the collateral damage he causes.

I wrote in an edit earlier but this would be like trying to make Ironman the altruistic moral center of the Avengers simply because that take hasn't been done yet. It's sacrificing cohesive mythology for the sake of an idea that doesn't really add anything to that mythology.

And if it really was about making Sups young and struggling, there are better ways to do it than make him seem like a Young Adult fiction character, with the petulance and angst of someone half his age

What did you think of Watchmen?
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Yes, because it's not like Wonder Woman was sexualized and less than treated equally in the past as well. I think it's awesome that DC finally have given female characters lead, solo roles. This is truly a good step forward. But it's literally the only step I see. Give me the WW from BvS, a truly equal if not superior female hero who is ancient and mysterious, not who is memorized by the eyes of a pretty man who quit heroing because their boyfriend died.
That's just how you personally interpreted it as. This is the thing about art in general. It's a raw shack test. You get out of it what you see. And why no movie will ever satisfy all fans of.....well anything really.

Also "Step forward." It's a comic book movie ffs. I mean I will still buy my ticket and eagerly watch it, wearing my WW shirt with pride. But come on.

With that sort of practically non existent internal consistency, I don't put that much stock in specific iterations of any character from a comic book. Least of all mainstream cinema outings, especially live action DC movies.
 
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Flankerl

Well-Known Member
Anyone over the age of 6 should not be looking up to Wonder Woman or any other comic book superhero.
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Give me the WW from BvS, a truly equal if not superior female hero who is ancient and mysterious, not who is memorized by the eyes of a pretty man who quit heroing because their boyfriend died.

WW didn't quit heroing because Steve died. The fact she's still prepared to fight Doomsday kind of reveals that. Diana came to the realisation that as powerful as she is, she can't (and shouldn't) try to change human nature.
 
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I saw superman as still a very young hero, struggling with his power and place in the world.

Superman is the worst character even created. Deus ex machina after deus ex machina.

*Superman is in trouble*... *superman remembers he can drink the entire ocean*
*Superman is in trouble*... *superman remembers if you fly round the world fast enough you can turn back time*
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Incidentally my favorite feminism related action movie is still Mad Max: Fury Road. Not explicitly for that reason, the cinematography and music are a large part of it. But all the same.
The ultimate feminist movie earned it's top place by not having even a whiff of overt feminism.
It's an action movie based upon a mother saving an endangered child after the loss of her own
daughter. The unlikely hero (I dislike the word "heroine") rises to the unexpected occasion.
She is of average appearance....rather skinny & gangly. And she's ill prepared for her role.
There isn't even any romance! The stereotypes usually imposed upon men, women & others
are all distorted, discarded or inverted. And the great climactic fight scenes don't even have
men (unless one counts a synthetic who swings that way). It all just makes complete sense.
Of course, the movie is Aliens.
tumblr_n3y5jrIzSj1s2wio8o1_500.gif

Note:
I'm handicapped by a fanatical refusal to see any Max Max movie after Beyond Thunderdome.
It killed the series for me. (There are only 2....Mad Max & The Road Warrior.)

Another note:
Despite my aversion to the DC universe, I will see WW sometime.
But I will never pay money to see Superman v Batman.
 
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Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
The ultimate feminist movie earned it's top place by not having even a whiff of overt feminism.
It's an action movie based upon a mother saving an endangered child after the loss of her own
daughter. The unlikely hero (I dislike the word "heroine") rises to the unexpected occasion.
She is of average appearance....rather skinny & gangly. And she's ill prepared for her role.
There isn't even any romance! The stereotypes usually imposed upon men, women & others
are all distorted, discarded or inverted. And the great climactic fight scenes don't even have
men (unless one counts a synthetic who swings that way). It all just makes complete sense.
Of course, the movie is Aliens.
tumblr_n3y5jrIzSj1s2wio8o1_500.gif

Note:
I'm handicapped by a fanatical refusal to see any Max Max movie after Beyond Thunderdome.
It killed the series for me. (There are only 2....Mad Max & The Road Warrior.)

Another note:
Despite my aversion to the DC universe, I will see WW sometime.
But I will never pay money to see Superman v Batman.
She was given to behave like a man to avoid feminine stereotypes. That's still sexist.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
The ultimate feminist movie earned it's top place by not having even a whiff of overt feminism.
It's an action movie based upon a mother saving an endangered child after the loss of her own
daughter. The unlikely hero (I dislike the word "heroine") rises to the unexpected occasion.
She is of average appearance....rather skinny & gangly. And she's ill prepared for her role.
There isn't even any romance! The stereotypes usually imposed upon men, women & others
are all distorted, discarded or inverted. And the great climactic fight scenes don't even have
men (unless one counts a synthetic who swings that way). It all just makes complete sense.
Of course, the movie is Aliens.
tumblr_n3y5jrIzSj1s2wio8o1_500.gif

Note:
I'm handicapped by a fanatical refusal to see any Max Max movie after Beyond Thunderdome.
It killed the series for me. (There are only 2....Mad Max & The Road Warrior.)

Another note:
Despite my aversion to the DC universe, I will see WW sometime.
But I will never pay money to see Superman v Batman.
I love Aliens too. :)

You should give Fury Road a try though. Same great director, Hugh Keays-Byrne playes another great villain, there is similarly no romance, and the action, music and cinematography is top shelf.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
She was given to behave like a man to avoid feminine stereotypes. That's still sexist.
I saw nothing mannish in her performance.
She behaved like a capable human who did what needed to be done in exigent circumstances.
That's not sexist.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I do like the comic but it's not my favorite. It's very Alan Moore. I appreciate his talent for deconstruction, but the edgy grimdark can get a little trying. Between he and Frank Miller of Dark Knight fame, they began what was known as the dark age of comics, which we are finally swinging away from.

I cared even less for the movie which missed a lot of deconstruction, as an adaptation, and Snyder got Rorscharch completely wrong (Which amused Alan Moore to no ends. But he famously doesn't like any adaptation of his work, from VforV to League of Extraordinary Gentlemen to From Hell.)
I did really like the opening montage though. Actually it had a lot of visually interesting choices. But the writing, music and editing outside the opening left a lot to be desired.
 
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