forbidden?

[Father Heathen]

The WoW reference was the final nail in the coffin for this thread.

 

[rusra02]

Inviting your opinions on Leviticus 18:22....

This was God's command to the Israelites after leaving Egypt. They were to be a holy people, and sexual sins such as homosexual acts were forbidden on pain of death. Later, in the Christian scriptures, God's prohibition continues at 1 Corinthians 6:9, 10: “What! Do you not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes [“male prostitutes,” New International Version; “effeminate,” King James Version], nor men who lie with men [“sodomites,” Jerusalem Bible; “homosexual perverts,” Today’s English Version], nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom.”

For this reason, people who pursue such unnatural sexual inclinations find themselves contending with God. The Bible contains this warning: “Woe to the one that has contended with his Former, as an earthenware fragment with the other earthenware fragments of the ground! Should the clay say to its former: ‘What do you make?’” (Isaiah 45:9) Surely it is reasonable for the Maker of humans to give direction on sexual matters. Is it not also reasonable that humans should follow such direction?

 

[Father Heathen]

Surely it is reasonable for the Maker of humans to give direction on sexual matters. Is it not also reasonable that humans should follow such direction?

Why would god (excessively and barbarically) punish someone for simply being the way he created them? Also, should I really trust bronze age goat herders to have had a clear understanding of the world and to have been the official middlemen and interpreters of god? If something was truly of god, I would expect a bit more than irrational absurdities and sadistic savagery.

 

[starlite]

I'm of the opinion that it is nothing more than the superstitious savagery of ancient primitives. Now Starlite, tell us your opinion of Exodus 21:7-11

Would you please be more specific....there is a lot of information contained in these scriptures?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Would you please be more specific....there is a lot of information contained in these scriptures?

There is alot contained in Leviticus. My sister has a very interesting theory on it, that makes since. There are very strict dietary laws contained in that book. Since they knew nothing about micro-biology, bacteria, viruses, illnesses, or anything else of that matter, that they noticed certain meats (such as pork) had a high chance of making someone ill. Since they did not know the reasons why, they came to the conclusion that is was God's will that they do not eat such "unclean" meats.
And since mankind would not know even the basics of genetics for a few thousand more years, since homosexual relationships could not produce offspring, and since no offspring ment a lesser chance of the tribe surving, it was deemed that God also had a problem with us queer folk.
Just my guess (and hers), but I thought it made since.

 

[Father Heathen]

Would you please be more specific....there is a lot of information contained in these scriptures?

It's basically instructions on how to sell ones own daughter into sexual slavery.

"If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do. 8 If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, [a] he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. 9 If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. 10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. 11 If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.

 

[TheKnight]

Nevermind. I dont' want to turn this thread into a discussion of verses in the Bible that people don't like.

 

[starlite]

It's basically instructions on how to sell ones own daughter into sexual slavery.

I disagree.....

A father could not lawfully make his daughter a prostitute, and if she were violated, he could collect damages. (Ex 22:16, 17; Le 19:29; De 22:28, 29)

The term “daughter” was also applied to women in general: women of a particular land, people or city and female worshipers of false gods . It was used as a general address of kindness by one with authority or by an older person to a younger woman. The term for “daughter,” in its many senses, occurs over 600 times in the Bible.

 

[VinDino11]

Leviticus 18:22 (King James Version)

22Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.

The order of the Universe. Its actually a good thing if you can maintain the order of your creation.

 

[VinDino11]

Deuteronomy 21:18-21
If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father; or the voice of his mother, and, though they chastise him, will not give heed to them, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, and they shall say to the elders of his city, "This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard." Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones; so you shall purge the evil from your midst; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Jewish Laws suck...

Thank GOD he didn't create that religion...

 

[McBell]

I disagree.....

Why?
Do you disagree because the Bible disagrees with that statement, or do you disagree merely because you dislike that statement?

A father could not lawfully make his daughter a prostitute, and if she were violated, he could collect damages. (Ex 22:16, 17; Le 19:29; De 22:28, 29)

Interesting that the first part "A father could not lawfully make his daughter a prostitute" has not even one verse listed to back it up, yet the second part "if she were violated, he could collect damages" has three verse references...

Are you unable to find verses to support the first part or did you forget to list them?

Even more interesting is how you changed the argument from "sexual slavery" to "prostitution."

The term “daughter” was also applied to women in general: women of a particular land, people or city and female worshipers of false gods . It was used as a general address of kindness by one with authority or by an older person to a younger woman. The term for “daughter,” in its many senses, occurs over 600 times in the Bible.

Nice bit of trivia, unfortunately it does not help your argument any.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Nevermind. I dont' want to turn this thread into a discussion of verses in the Bible that people don't like.

There have already been some mentioned.

 

[starlite]

Why?
Do you disagree because the Bible disagrees with that statement, or do you disagree merely because you dislike that statement?
Because the Bible disagrees.


Interesting that the first part "A father could not lawfully make his daughter a prostitute" has not even one verse listed to back it up, yet the second part "if she were violated, he could collect damages" has three verse references...included in the three listed

Are you unable to find verses to support the first part or did you forget to list them? Being sensitive to Shadow Wolf in not using too many scriptures...if you are really interested you could look them up for yourself

Even more interesting is how you changed the argument from "sexual slavery" to "prostitution."

Wikipedia
'''Sexual slavery''' refers to the organized coercion of unwilling people into different sexual practices. Sexual slavery may include single-owner sexual slavery, ritual slavery sometimes associated with traditional religious practices, [[slavery]] for primarily non-sexual purposes where sex is common, or [[forced prostitution]].

One and the same, right? And wasn't "sexual slavery" the added term you used?

 

[starlite]

Mestemia,

Leviticus 19:29 as listed
New International Version (©1984)
"'Do not degrade your daughter by making her a prostitute, or the land will turn to prostitution and be filled with wickedness.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
'Do not profane your daughter by making her a harlot, so that the land will not fall to harlotry and the land become full of lewdness.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
"Never dishonor your daughter by making her a prostitute, or the country will turn to prostitution and be filled with people who are perverted.
King James Bible
Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness.
American King James Version
Do not prostitute your daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to prostitution, and the land become full of wickedness.
American Standard Version
Profane not thy daughter, to make her a harlot; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness.

 

[Sunstone]

It's a reflection of the beliefs an ancient culture. No more, no less.

The beliefs of an ancient culture? Or the beliefs of an ancient priest who was suffering from psychosis? I think some of these ancient laws resemble the things patients in psyche wards come up with.

 

[Storm]

Prostituting your daughter might have been forbidden, starlite, but selling her to be somebody's concubine was a-ok.

 

[starlite]

There is alot contained in Leviticus. My sister has a very interesting theory on it, that makes since. There are very strict dietary laws contained in that book. Since they knew nothing about micro-biology, bacteria, viruses, illnesses, or anything else of that matter, that they noticed certain meats (such as pork) had a high chance of making someone ill. Since they did not know the reasons why, they came to the conclusion that is was God's will that they do not eat such "unclean" meats.
And since mankind would not know even the basics of genetics for a few thousand more years, since homosexual relationships could not produce offspring, and since no offspring ment a lesser chance of the tribe surving, it was deemed that God also had a problem with us queer folk.
Just my guess (and hers), but I thought it made since.

Nice reasoning....here's mine. God as our Creator would know exactly what would make us ill and therefore warned us of the danger.

 

[painted wolf]

yeah, because a shrimp cocktail is such a terrible health threat. (abominable)

wa:do

ps. what about mixed fabric cloths? What's so evil about that?

 

[Sunstone]

There is alot contained in Leviticus. My sister has a very interesting theory on it, that makes since. There are very strict dietary laws contained in that book. Since they knew nothing about micro-biology, bacteria, viruses, illnesses, or anything else of that matter, that they noticed certain meats (such as pork) had a high chance of making someone ill. Since they did not know the reasons why, they came to the conclusion that is was God's will that they do not eat such "unclean" meats.
And since mankind would not know even the basics of genetics for a few thousand more years, since homosexual relationships could not produce offspring, and since no offspring ment a lesser chance of the tribe surving, it was deemed that God also had a problem with us queer folk.
Just my guess (and hers), but I thought it made since.

Your sister's thoughts on this are more or less shared by many scholars, so far as I know.

However, I think many of these ancient laws closely resemble the pattern of thought we discover in people afflicted with an untreated psychosis.

 

[Sunstone]

yeah, because a shrimp cocktail is such a terrible health threat. (abominable)

wa:do

ps. what about mixed fabric cloths? What's so evil about that?

Go into any psyche ward in the country and see if you cannot find at least one or two people who believe god, a demon, or the bacteria on their teeth has told them something similar to "don't wear cloths made of two fabrics". The thinking in certain parts of the Bible closely resembles the thinking you will find among people afflicted with psychosis.