Forced Conversion

[Flankerl]

So it's sort of an mix of unbelieving Jew idealogy

Nice.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

They say that but they weren't persecuting people for not being Christians, they were persecuting them for not being Catholics. Many people who wanted to be Christians but not be Catholics.

If that's the case then there are few if any Christians because most Christian denominations spend their time ****ting on each other for being 'false Christians'.

Also, the Catholics spent a lot of their time persecuting non-Christians such as Jews, Muslims and Pagans.

How do you know those Roman citizens didn't convert and tear them down themselves?

Some probably did but especially in the Eastern Roman Empire, Pagan temples were attacked by bands of Christians led by fanatical monks and hermits from the desert. One infamous example of this was the destruction of the Serapeum at Alexandria.

I don't believe your question holds any weight for the same reason I don't believe the claim of a Muslim or two that the Meccans, upon Muhammad's conquest of their city, all converted to Islam and destroyed their own former religious artifacts; I don't tend to believe 'miraculous conversion' claims.

Another (unrelated incident) of Christians destroying Pagan temples was the Ephesian temple of Artemis being looted and destroyed by the Christianised Goth barbarians.

 

[Kemosloby]

If that's the case then there are few if any Christians because most Christian denominations spend their time ****ting on each other for being 'false Christians'.

Also, the Catholics spent a lot of their time persecuting non-Christians such as Jews, Muslims and Pagans.




Some probably did but especially in the Eastern Roman Empire, Pagan temples were attacked by bands of Christians led by fanatical monks and hermits from the desert. One infamous example of this was the destruction of the Serapeum at Alexandria.

I don't believe your question holds any weight for the same reason I don't believe the claim of a Muslim or two that the Meccans, upon Muhammad's conquest of their city, all converted to Islam and destroyed their own former religious artifacts; I don't tend to believe 'miraculous conversion' claims.

Another (unrelated incident) of Christians destroying Pagan temples was the Ephesian temple of Artemis being looted and destroyed by the Christianised Goth barbarians.

Well I get the impression that as Christianity spread, the unbelieving Jews tried to teach the newly converted Christians how to be more Jewish. (There are even accounts in the bible that it was a common thing) So the Christians learned to stone people in the streets and crucify people for transgressing the laws. But Jesus and the Apostles were not doing those things or instructing anyone to do those things.

 

[Rival]

Well I get the impression that as Christianity spread, the unbelieving Jews tried to teach the newly converted Christians how to be more Jewish. (There are even accounts in the bible that it was a common thing) So the Christians learned to stone people in the streets and crucify people for transgressing the laws. But Jesus and the Apostles were not doing those things or instructing anyone to do those things.

Erm, the Jews never crucified anyone for transgressions. That's not a prescribed punishment.

 

[Kemosloby]

Erm, the Jews never crucified anyone for transgressions. That's not a prescribed punishment.

Correct, they had the Romans do it for them.

 

[Rival]

Correct, they had the Romans do it for them.

No they didn't.

 

[Jumi]

Don't forget the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox or the Assyrian Church of the East.

Or more controversially the Gnostic Christians, Arians, Cathars...

 

[SalixIncendium]

Forced is a strong word, and suggests at gunpoint, or at the threat of death.

There have been in history threats of torture and death for worshiping one's own gods.

What about the many coerced conversions, in exchange for jobs, for money, for food, for power, for status? Do these count at all?

Yes.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Forced conversion is not a part of Judaism or Christianity, ancient or modern, at least those sects that are biblically based.

Which sects do you consider to be "biblically based?"

 

[SalixIncendium]

Which sects do you consider "biblically based"?

I suppose this will teach me to read the entire thread before asking questions...

 

[Vinayaka]

There have been in history threats of torture and death for worshiping one's own gods.

Yes, I know. Many people have died at the hands of invading 'religious' hordes. In many cases they weren't even given the opportunity to convert, just killed outright.

I'm against proselytizing, and conversion altogether, unless its totally on one's own volition.

 

[SalixIncendium]

The notion of "forced conversion" doesn't make sense it me, as it would obviously be an insincere facade. One can't just simply change what they genuinely believe on a whim.

Of course not. But they can be told what god they are now permitted to worship and which ones are forbidden.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Which sects do you consider to be "biblically based?"

Without listing thousands of small and large groups through the centuries here, there are groups that do two things--adhere to the Bible and interpret all or most of it accurately.

Example, a Bible group that says "good people go to Heaven" is misunderstanding the scriptures' clear teaching (over 150 verses in the NT alone) that trusting God is required for not-good people (everyone) to go to Heaven!

 

[BilliardsBall]

Which sects do you consider "biblically based"?

Those that adhere to the Bible and interpret it accurately. For example, even a cursory reading of the NT yields the nugget that inside of good people going to Heaven and relatively bad people going to Hell, all persons are not-as-good-as-they-think, that is, not morally perfect, and must trust God as individuals to get to Heaven.

 

[Akivah]

Nobody was ever forced to convert to Christianity, only to Catholicism. If forced to convert to Catholicism or Atheism I would do the only honorable thing and hang myself.

As Catholics are Christians, just a different denomination, I don't know why you'd hang yourself. Forced conversions are a historical fact of Christianity. Forced Baptism

There is evidence that when Christianity established itself as the dominant religion in the Roman Empire, from the fourth century, large numbers of Jews were forcibly baptized: a detailed account is extant of the process in the island of *Minorca in 418.

In the seventh century a wave of forced conversions spread over Europe, sparked off when in 614 Emperor *Heraclius forbade the practice of Judaism in the Byzantine Empire.

Many Jews, especially in the Rhineland, were baptized literally by force during the first and subsequent *Crusades , and the antipope *Clement III protested violently against their being permitted subsequently to revert to Judaism.

In the Russian Empire in the second quarter of the 19th century the institution of the *Cantonists – involving the virtual kidnapping for military service of Jewish male children from the age of 12, or even 8 –was introduced in the expressed hope of compelling them to abandon Judaism. The number of forced or virtually forced baptisms which resulted probably exceeded all similar cases in other lands throughout history.

 

[Akivah]

Read about early Calvinism in the American colonies, how they required everyone to attend and oppressed Baptists and any others. There was a tax that went to the church, too. There's dirt but the reason people do not talk about it is that it is unpleasant. Memories of forced conversions create bad feelings and animosity, but they are real. They have happened, and they show what people are like when you startle them with information they do not like.

That's true, in 1649 Cecilius Calvert, Lord Baltimore, in the colony of Maryland, submitted an "Act Concerning Religion" to the Maryland General Assembly. The act took aim at all those –including Jews – who denied the divinity of Christ. Those who "blaspheme God . . . or deny our Saviour Jesus Christ to be the sonne of God, or shall deny the Holy Trinity . . . shall be punished with death and confiscation or forfeiture of all his or her lands and goods to the Lord Proprietary and his heires."

Not until 1823 were Jews finally granted full relief from Maryland’s discriminatory religious laws.
Jacob Lumbrozo

 

[Akivah]

None of that forcible conversion is biblical. Perhaps they were all somewhat influenced by Catholicism.

Way to move the goal posts. You first claimed that no one was ever forcibly converted by Christians. Now you're saying the Christians who did weren't "real" Christians.

 

[DavidFirth]

Read about early Calvinism in the American colonies, how they required everyone to attend and oppressed Baptists and any others. There was a tax that went to the church, too. There's dirt but the reason people do not talk about it is that it is unpleasant. Memories of forced conversions create bad feelings and animosity, but they are real. They have happened, and they show what people are like when you startle them with information they do not like.

@Brickjectivity
This is the reason why the Constitution was written the way it was concerning religion. Freedom of religion was especially addressed because of what Brickjectivity wrote above. Calvinists and Baptists were killing each other or getting ready to kill each other.

 

[Kemosloby]

As Catholics are Christians, just a different denomination, I don't know why you'd hang yourself. Forced conversions are a historical fact of Christianity. Forced Baptism

After the Jews had Jesus crucified by the Romans all sorts of things happened.

 

[Kemosloby]

Way to move the goal posts. You first claimed that no one was ever forcibly converted by Christians. Now you're saying the Christians who did weren't "real" Christians.

It's true, Jesus and the Apostles never taught forced conversion, therefore it is not a part of Christianity. It is a deviation from Christianity by people claiming to be Christians.