Freedom of religion -Isn't this a basic human right?

[Apollonius]

We should have the right not to be aggrovated by religion selling itself.

Agreed.

If i wanted to become part of religion, i would go to them.

And how exactly would you have the desire to go to them if you're unaware of their existence?

I don't need them comming to my house.

Once again, I agree.

 

[darkendless]

And how exactly would you have the desire to go to them if you're unaware of their existence?

You'd have to be completely blind or under a rock to miss religion where i live.

 

[Apollonius]

You'd have to be completely blind or under a rock to miss religion where i live.

How can one miss a thing without first taking aim to hit it.

 

[darkendless]

How can one miss a thing without first taking aim to hit it.

On my 15 minute drive to university each day, there are 4 churches and a mosque, all advertising salvation. My point is if i wanted to be religious i'd seek them out, i'd do my own research.
Because i don't want to be religious, to me, all those signs are is a disgrace and an offence to my eyes.

 

[Apollonius]

On my 15 minute drive to university each day, there are 4 churches and a mosque, all advertising salvation. My point is if i wanted to be religious i'd seek them out, i'd do my own research.
Because i don't want to be religious, to me, all those signs are is a disgrace and an offence to my eyes.

I applaud your determination in this matter in that self-education far surpasses that which others attempt to impose upon the unwilling.

 

[AxisMundi]

Don't do either. But that law affects me because I potentially can do both.

No, but I own a couple of swords. I'm very subject to the sword laws, as well as gun laws, because it's possible for me to own a gun.

Dude, I recently quit processed sugar and caffeine. But I'm subject to drug laws, because it's possible for me to take them.

Nope, and not really looking forward to becoming one.

It affects me if it's possible for me to break. How can I marry a man if I'm neither homosexual or bisexual? (As a clarification, I'm looking at this from a practical standpoint.)

Besides, you didn't address my comment on the shirt law. I'm not subject to that law; I can take off my shirt in public all I want; women can't. There's a law that I'm not subject to. Same with prop 8.

You keep making my argument for me, thanks.

BTW, can you go into a store shirtless?

Another example, on a National Level.

Our current repalcement Motto and Pledge attempts to claim each and every US citizen is a member of a Judeo-Christian religion.

Agree or disagree?

 

[Riverwolf]

You keep making my argument for me, thanks.

Please explain.

BTW, can you go into a store shirtless?

I don't know. Can I? (Not that it matters; I can still walk around the street shirtless.)

Another example, on a National Level.

Our current repalcement Motto and Pledge attempts to claim each and every US citizen is a member of a Judeo-Christian religion.

Agree or disagree?

Well, I never actually recited the pledge, so...

I do, however, disagree. "God" is too generic a term to use; my Qur'an translation uses "God," and many Hindus use the term, too.

The word has gone beyond Judeo-Christian confines.

I will, however, agree that they attempt to claim that all citizens of the US are theists, which is total BS.

 

[AxisMundi]

Please explain.

I don't know. Can I? (Not that it matters; I can still walk around the street shirtless.)

Well, I never actually recited the pledge, so...

I do, however, disagree. "God" is too generic a term to use; my Qur'an translation uses "God," and many Hindus use the term, too.

The word has gone beyond Judeo-Christian confines.

I will, however, agree that they attempt to claim that all citizens of the US are theists, which is total BS.

Our Pledge and Motto were put in place by Christians, not Hindu's, not Muslims.

Not only does said deity refer to none other than Jehovah, as Christians in general and Christianity in aprticular refuse even the possibility of other Deity, those who do not worship a male diety, and especially those who do not worship at all, are relegated to a second-class in the American psyche, each and every non-Christian is "not a True American".

The same goes for ANY laws based on relgiious doctrines or dieal that lacks any secular reasoning to support it, such as Prop 8.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

On the other hand, why don't you look at the tyrant secular regimes that rule Muslims?
You can start by looking at my country, Egypt.

I would define Egypt as wannabe secular.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Our Pledge and Motto were put in place by Christians, not Hindu's, not Muslims.

True but america is becoming more and more secular. Christians are losing almost a % point a year. Do to the growth of Atheism (Agnostic) Hinduism Buddhism, paganism,Islam etc. I see this as moving us to a more perfect union as Obama says. Not that I dislike Christians. I just like the freedom of thought that a secular state allows.

 

[logician]

We have freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. Big difference.

Then there is the issue of tax dollars. People may say they do not want their tax dollars spent on anything religious. I can understand that, until they try to get me to spend my tax dollars funding abortion.

Actually, your religion ends where my nose begins, you are NOT free to shove it down my throat.

 

[AxisMundi]

True but america is becoming more and more secular. Christians are losing almost a % point a year. Do to the growth of Atheism (Agnostic) Hinduism Buddhism, paganism,Islam etc. I see this as moving us to a more perfect union as Obama says. Not that I dislike Christians. I just like the freedom of thought that a secular state allows.

Absolutely agreed.

Christians are indeed loosing their Clear Majority and a re-secularisation is taking place.

Unfortunatly, I have a feeling I will be fighting just as hard to preserve the rights of Christians, where they actually apply, in the near future as I do shoving them back to where they should be now.

 

[Erebus]

Actually, your religion ends where my nose begins, you are NOT free to shove it down my throat.

This is something I'm a little torn on. I genuinely have no problem with people handing out fliers, setting up seminars or even knocking on my door (providing it's at a reasonable hour). I don't see a problem with it as long as they're polite and they understand that "no thank's I'm not interested" doesn't mean, "I'm interested in Jesus, keep talking".

What I object to are the lunes who stand on crates yelling portents of doom in the streets, or people who will just not leave you alone. This isn't just irritating for the people they speak to, it's also damaging to the public perception of their beliefs.

 

[kai]

Really, no need to object for nothing. Secularism says no to revelation in politics especially, in economics and even in the social field.

Can't this be said about a secular system too? Because now you get to help me to search for a secular state that allows Islamic political parties (which contradict the very basic values of secularism and calls for an Islamic Shari'a rule) to work legally and take part in elections and such...

sure:


The Islamic Party of Britain began its work in 1989 with the purpose of encouraging public debate about the Islamic alternative. Being the very first national Islamic political organisation in the UK and the only Islamic political party in the non-Muslim Western world,
Islamic Party of Britain

 

[ChristineES]

There is another thing: If a person only mentions to you that they are a Christian or a Muslim or a Hindu or whatever,it is NOT the same as forcing it down your throat. It is only that if they keep telling you that you should convert to their faith that it is shoving your throat.

 

[AxisMundi]

This is something I'm a little torn on. I genuinely have no problem with people handing out fliers, setting up seminars or even knocking on my door (providing it's at a reasonable hour). I don't see a problem with it as long as they're polite and they understand that "no thank's I'm not interested" doesn't mean, "I'm interested in Jesus, keep talking".

What I object to are the lunes who stand on crates yelling portents of doom in the streets, or people who will just not leave you alone. This isn't just irritating for the people they speak to, it's also damaging to the public perception of their beliefs.

I have a big problem with pamphlets. The waste paper and cause littering when, after shoved into people's hands, they are thrown to the ground after being glanced at.

I also have a trouble with pamphlets especially after watching a bunch of Asian exchange students go ******* over them, as if they had done something horribly wrong and culturally insulting and had been cursed. Poor girls, it took me nearly ten minutes to calm them down enough to explain what they were. When it had been shoved in my face, I told the guy I don't worship your Satan, since it was he who took up the whole front.

I also have a trouble with door knockers. My home is my castle, my sanctuary. Stay away. And no, signage doesn't help.

Otherwise, we agree.

 

[Riverwolf]

Our Pledge and Motto were put in place by Christians, not Hindu's, not Muslims.

So?

Not only does said deity refer to none other than Jehovah, as Christians in general and Christianity in aprticular refuse even the possibility of other Deity, those who do not worship a male diety, and especially those who do not worship at all, are relegated to a second-class in the American psyche, each and every non-Christian is "not a True American".

Again, so? Why should my opinion and viewpoint be dependent on others'? I really don't care if someone views me as "not a true American;" after all, I'm not a patriot, and I believe political boundaries are just mental constructs, anyway.

The same goes for ANY laws based on relgiious doctrines or dieal that lacks any secular reasoning to support it, such as Prop 8.

What "same?" Anyone who doesn't follow prop 8 isn't a true American? Is that the only punishment I get?

 

[Riverwolf]

Unfortunatly, I have a feeling I will be fighting just as hard to preserve the rights of Christians, where they actually apply, in the near future as I do shoving them back to where they should be now.

Glad to read that. :yes:

 

[Erebus]

I have a big problem with pamphlets. The waste paper and cause littering when, after shoved into people's hands, they are thrown to the ground after being glanced at.

I also have a trouble with pamphlets especially after watching a bunch of Asian exchange students go ******* over them, as if they had done something horribly wrong and culturally insulting and had been cursed. Poor girls, it took me nearly ten minutes to calm them down enough to explain what they were. When it had been shoved in my face, I told the guy I don't worship your Satan, since it was he who took up the whole front.

I also have a trouble with door knockers. My home is my castle, my sanctuary. Stay away. And no, signage doesn't help.

Otherwise, we agree.

Different things annoy different people I guess. It'd just one of those things that needs to be tolerated if we are to live in some semblance of democracry

If I had it my way, the Jonas brothers would have been burned at stake a long time ago, but apparently a lot of people like them, so I just have to put up with the odd poster here and there. Of course in private I'm then free to go down into my ritual chamber with the inverted Jonas brothers image hung above burned skinny jeans and sing their songs backwards in a death growl. In an ideal society I would be able to quietly advertise Sanojism in public without fear of persecution, but we're a while off that level of tolerance yet I fear

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

We have freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. Big difference.

Freedom from religion, at least in terms of its influence on government, is how freedom of religion is maintained.