Freewill and Volition

[AK4]

Faith is for those who are dying for lack of knowledge.

Ben: <*)))><

Exactly. You have proven my point!

 

[Ben Masada]

Exactly. You have proven my point!

I don't live by faith; I live for the pursuit of knowledge.

Ben: <*)))><

 

[Willamena]

I don't live by faith; I live for the pursuit of knowledge.

Ben: <*)))><

That takes a lot of faith. I respect that.

 

[Ben Masada]

That takes a lot of faith. I respect that.

Good for you Willamena. You have started with your right foot. You caused
me to laugh, and that's good.

Ben: <*)))><

 

[AK4]

I don't live by faith; I live for the pursuit of knowledge.

Ben: <*)))><

Yet you live by the faith of your "fathers" and believe that they worshipped God correctly and havent investigated your own religion objectively---NOW THATS FAITH

 

[Ben Masada]

Yet you live by the faith of your "fathers" and believe that they worshipped God correctly and havent investigated your own religion objectively---NOW THATS FAITH

What makes you think so, the fact that I am not vulnerable to the Christology of Paul? His gospel impresses only the moribunds of Hosea 4:6.

Ben: <*)))><

 

[AK4]

What makes you think so, the fact that I am not vulnerable to the Christology of Paul? His gospel impresses only the moribunds of Hosea 4:6.

Ben: <*)))><

Just like if a christain really look at their religion objectively (the doctrines of men), same this with judaism and their doctrines of men and truly believe the Word of God as the final authority you would find how it contradicts God. And this has nothing to Paul and christology

 

[Ben Masada]

Just like if a christain really look at their religion objectively (the doctrines of men), same this with judaism and their doctrines of men and truly believe the Word of God as the final authority you would find how it contradicts God. And this has nothing to Paul and christology

I wonder why you exonerate yourself from Christianity. Don't you think that's a
cop-out to adopt the pseudonym of "buried with Christ" and deny being a Christian?
Unless, like Christ who is dead, you too are buried with him. I think it's high time
for you to rise from your grave and confess the faith of Jesus which was Judaism.

Ben: <*)))>< :yes:

 

[AK4]

I wonder why you exonerate yourself from Christianity. Don't you think that's a
cop-out to adopt the pseudonym of "buried with Christ" and deny being a Christian?
Unless, like Christ who is dead, you too are buried with him. I think it's high time
for you to rise from your grave and confess the faith of Jesus which was Judaism.

Ben: <*)))>< :yes:

I confess ben--im not really real---its a ghost whos talking to you and only you---no one else can see these posts but you ben.

LOL I dont like to be called a christain because the how the whole world views them and what most christain believe. I dont want people to think i believe as they believe in all those doctrines of demons/men. They teach some truth, but when you get down to it they start showing their falsehood. I dont feel its a cop-out.

Now you say the faith of Jesus was judaism? Do you want me to expose your faith? Do you think Jesus faith went something like this--

"There is greater stringency in respect to the teachings of the Scribes than in respect to the Torah &#8230; so that a Biblical law may be transgressed." (Talmud, Sanhedrin 88b.)

or how about this


The Talmud (Sanhedrin 59a), states: A heathen who studies the Torah deserves death for it is written, Moses commanded us a law for an inheritance; it is our inheritance, not theirs.

Im sure Jesus follow this judaism. Yeah right.

 

[Ben Masada]

The Talmud (Sanhedrin 59a), states: A heathen who studies the Torah deserves death for it is written, Moses commanded us a law for an inheritance; it is our inheritance, not theirs.

Im sure Jesus follow this judaism. Yeah right.

Hey AK4, I never thought I would agree with you on something. You are right about the above. And I tell you, that's one of the reasons why from time to time the Land of Israel is taken from us so that we are exiled throughout the world for the glory of God to be seen through us. (Isa. 44:23; 46:13; Ezek. 20:41) I am of the opinion that every day that we fail to bring the world closer to God, we are one day closer to another Holocaust.

Now, with regards to Jesus, I rather believe that he held that kind of attitude towards Gentiles. Don't forget that he was against sharing his gospel with Gentiles.
(Mat. 10:6)

Ben: <*)))><

 

[AK4]

Hey AK4, I never thought I would agree with you on something. You are right about the above. And I tell you, that's one of the reasons why from time to time the Land of Israel is taken from us so that we are exiled throughout the world for the glory of God to be seen through us. (Isa. 44:23; 46:13; Ezek. 20:41) I am of the opinion that every day that we fail to bring the world closer to God, we are one day closer to another Holocaust.

Now, with regards to Jesus, I rather believe that he held that kind of attitude towards Gentiles. Don't forget that he was against sharing his gospel with Gentiles.
(Mat. 10:6)

Ben: <*)))><

Just when i thought you were making progress you made that last statement. Did you forget He told them to go to the nations and spread the Gospel? For that matter if He was against the sharing of His gospel and it was only meant for the Jews, then (if you are spreading the gospel) you are going directly against what He said.

 

[Ben Masada]

Just when i thought you were making progress you made that last statement. Did you forget He told them to go to the nations and spread the Gospel? For that matter if He was against the sharing of His gospel and it was only meant for the Jews, then (if you are spreading the gospel) you are going directly against what He said.

Oh! I forgot that sepulchers are clean only on the outside. Nobody likes to open one even of a loved one.

You always give a lot of quotations. Where is the one to prove that Jesus told the disciples to spread the gospel to the nations? Don't give me Matthew 28:19 because
that one didn't come out of Jesus but of Paul.

I am not spreading the gospel. I am spreading the Truth.

Ben: <*)))><

 

[AK4]

Oh! I forgot that sepulchers are clean only on the outside. Nobody likes to open one even of a loved one.

You always give a lot of quotations. Where is the one to prove that Jesus told the disciples to spread the gospel to the nations? Don't give me Matthew 28:19 because
that one didn't come out of Jesus but of Paul.

I am not spreading the gospel. I am spreading the Truth.

Ben: <*)))><

Your right i didnt quote. (I kinda felt naked not doing so also)

Mt 24:14 - And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
Mr 13:10 - And the gospel must first be preached to all nations.
Lu 24:47 - and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Mt 12:21 - And in his name shall the Gentiles trust--i threw this one in for fun
Mt 24:14 - And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world (this includes gentiles) for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (this was only done by the apostles right)
Mr 16:15 - And he said unto them, Go ye (who is the ye of this, the apostles) into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. (this is probably the most clearest of them all)

Oh! I forgot that sepulchers are clean only on the outside. Nobody likes to open one even of a loved one.

Yes exactly, so even though you dont want to believe Jesus said this to the pharisees, i ask you to read up on the history of the pharisees and you will see exactly why they were "clean on the outside, but full of all sorts of dirty things on the inside" (paraphrased). To help you out you can start with your own talmud and see the traditions and confessions of your own people and see this in the pharisees traditions and worship of spirits and superstitions---to put it nicely

 

[Ben Masada]

Your right i didnt quote. (I kinda felt naked not doing so also)

Mt 24:14 - And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
Mr 13:10 - And the gospel must first be preached to all nations.
Lu 24:47 - and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Mt 12:21 - And in his name shall the Gentiles trust--i threw this one in for fun
Mt 24:14 - And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world (this includes gentiles) for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (this was only done by the apostles right)
Mr 16:15 - And he said unto them, Go ye (who is the ye of this, the apostles) into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. (this is probably the most clearest of them all)


Yes exactly, so even though you dont want to believe Jesus said this to the pharisees, i ask you to read up on the history of the pharisees and you will see exactly why they were "clean on the outside, but full of all sorts of dirty things on the inside" (paraphrased). To help you out you can start with your own talmud and see the traditions and confessions of your own people and see this in the pharisees traditions and worship of spirits and superstitions---to put it nicely

If I were to accept the above as instructions from Jesus, I would be in trouble to solve more contradictions in the NT. All those intructions about preaching the gospel
to the Gentiles were given by Paul and his cronies. If they had come from the lips of Jesus you would have to explain why he forbade to take the gospel to the Gentiles,
especially Samaritans. Read Matthew 10:5.

And those imprecations against the Pharisees were from Paul because of his grudge against the Pharisees for having never allowed him to build a church in Israeli soil.
That's why he had churches throughout Asia Minor but not a single one in Israel. Because of the Pharisees in general and the Nazarenes in particular.

Ben: <*)))><

 

[AK4]

If I were to accept the above as instructions from Jesus, I would be in trouble to solve more contradictions in the NT. All those intructions about preaching the gospel
to the Gentiles were given by Paul and his cronies. If they had come from the lips of Jesus you would have to explain why he forbade to take the gospel to the Gentiles,
especially Samaritans. Read Matthew 10:5.

And those imprecations against the Pharisees were from Paul because of his grudge against the Pharisees for having never allowed him to build a church in Israeli soil.
That's why he had churches throughout Asia Minor but not a single one in Israel. Because of the Pharisees in general and the Nazarenes in particular.

Ben: <*)))><

Come on Ben think use your brain. Then look at your own talmud that give evidence of Jesus claims before Paul even stepped into the picture

Isa 49:22 - This is what the Sovereign Lord says:"See, I will beckon to the Gentiles, I will lift up my banner to the peoples; they will bring your sons in their arms and carry your daughters on their shoulders.

Isa 61:1 - The Spirit of the Sovereign Lord is on me, because the Lord has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners,
Is this from Paul too? Are all the verses below from Paul also? Is Paul saying that the good news is to preached to the poor/gentiles/unbelievers. The poor are unbelievers, not just gentiles. The rich are those who know Gods Word. The jews knew Gods Word but yet were poor because they didnt believe in Him (the Lazarus and Rich man parable, Lazarus was representing the poor and the rich man was representing those who had Gods Word)

And as you asked

Job 5:16 - Show Context So the poor have hope, and injustice shuts its mouth.
Job 20:10 - Show Context His children must make amends to the poor; his own hands must give back his wealth.
Job 20:19 - Show Context For he has oppressed the poor and left them destitute; he has seized houses he did not build.
Job 24:4 - Show Context They thrust the needy from the path and force all the poor of the land into hiding.
Job 30:25 - Show Context Have I not wept for those in trouble? Has not my soul grieved for the poor?
Ps 14:6 - Show Context You evildoers frustrate the plans of the poor, but the Lord is their refuge.
Ps 22:26 - Show Context The poor will eat and be satisfied; they who seek the Lord will praise him-- may your hearts live forever!
Ps 34:6 - Show Context This poor man called, and the Lord heard him; he saved him out of all his troubles.
Ps 35:10 - Show Context My whole being will exclaim, "Who is like you, O Lord? You rescue the poor from those too strong for them, the poor and needy from those who rob them."
Ps 40:17 - Show Context Yet I am poor and needy; may the Lord think of me. You are my help and my deliverer; O my God, do not delay.
Ps 69:32 - The poor will see and be glad-- you who seek God, may your hearts live!


I could post on and on but will you see the spiritual meaning behind all the post :no: I believe your talmud says somewhere that Gods words have a higher meaning to them also---Hey for once theyre right!

 

[Ben Masada]

Come on Ben think use your brain. Then look at your own talmud that give evidence of Jesus claims before Paul even stepped into the picture

Isa 49:22 - This is what the Sovereign Lord says:"See, I will beckon to the Gentiles, I will lift up my banner to the peoples; they will bring your sons in their arms and carry your daughters on their shoulders.

Isa 61:1 - The Spirit of the Sovereign Lord is on me, because the Lord has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners,
Is this from Paul too? Are all the verses below from Paul also? Is Paul saying that the good news is to preached to the poor/gentiles/unbelievers. The poor are unbelievers, not just gentiles. The rich are those who know Gods Word. The jews knew Gods Word but yet were poor because they didnt believe in Him (the Lazarus and Rich man parable, Lazarus was representing the poor and the rich man was representing those who had Gods Word)

And as you asked

Job 5:16 - Show Context So the poor have hope, and injustice shuts its mouth.
Job 20:10 - Show Context His children must make amends to the poor; his own hands must give back his wealth.
Job 20:19 - Show Context For he has oppressed the poor and left them destitute; he has seized houses he did not build.
Job 24:4 - Show Context They thrust the needy from the path and force all the poor of the land into hiding.
Job 30:25 - Show Context Have I not wept for those in trouble? Has not my soul grieved for the poor?
Ps 14:6 - Show Context You evildoers frustrate the plans of the poor, but the Lord is their refuge.
Ps 22:26 - Show Context The poor will eat and be satisfied; they who seek the Lord will praise him-- may your hearts live forever!
Ps 34:6 - Show Context This poor man called, and the Lord heard him; he saved him out of all his troubles.
Ps 35:10 - Show Context My whole being will exclaim, "Who is like you, O Lord? You rescue the poor from those too strong for them, the poor and needy from those who rob them."
Ps 40:17 - Show Context Yet I am poor and needy; may the Lord think of me. You are my help and my deliverer; O my God, do not delay.
Ps 69:32 - The poor will see and be glad-- you who seek God, may your hearts live!


I could post on and on but will you see the spiritual meaning behind all the post :no: I believe your talmud says somewhere that Gods words have a higher meaning to them also---Hey for once theyre right!

I think that rather you should use your brain and take a look at yourself as a Gentile with the pretension to dare to instruct a Jew in the Scriptures that we Jews wrote. You want me to believe your interpretation of what you think you understand, but every time I bring up Matthew 10:5, it is ignored. Do you know why? Because it's a contradiction you can't explain. Take a look at Isaiah 2:2,3. When Gentiles need instructions in the Word of God, the address is Zion, the Jewish People. Do you know why? Because according to Psalm 147:19,20, the word of God was given to Israel only and to no other people on earth. Why don't you get this into your skull once and for all?

Ben: <*)))><

 

[AK4]

I think that rather you should use your brain and take a look at yourself as a Gentile with the pretension to dare to instruct a Jew in the Scriptures that we Jews wrote. You want me to believe your interpretation of what you think you understand, but every time I bring up Matthew 10:5, it is ignored. Do you know why? Because it's a contradiction you can't explain. Take a look at Isaiah 2:2,3. When Gentiles need instructions in the Word of God, the address is Zion, the Jewish People. Do you know why? Because according to Psalm 147:19,20, the word of God was given to Israel only and to no other people on earth. Why don't you get this into your skull once and for all?

Ben: <*)))><

Pick and choose pick and choose. When will you believe all of Gods Word.


1 He called his twelve disciples to him (is this all of Israel? NOPE) and gave them authority to drive out evil spirits and to heal every disease and sickness. 2 These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him. 5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel..... 14 If anyone (whoops, you mean there will be Israelites who not accept the twelve who were to only go to Israel) will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town.....16 I am sending you out like sheep among wolves.(What? Israelites are wolves. Gentiles are dogs, but israelites are wolves which waaaay more viscous than dogs.What does that say about you guys?)

So how does this link up with Isa 2. You think this has something to with the literal address of Zion and Jerusalem. Okay lets go with that. So do we go to the wall that you guys are kissing or on the other side where the islamic mosque is? Tell me please. Oh you say we go the people of judaism and they will instruct us. Okay which sect do we go to? Orthodox, Reformist, Messianic, or one of the other thousands of sects of this religion? Only one can be right. See how ridiculous this sounds.

So now who do we go to, the one who reigns in Zion and Jerusalem who sits on High, the one who has been annoited King. Who could this be? Who is your king over there? Who is the one with all the knowledge to bring out His laws to where He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples and we will beat our swords into plowshares and our spears into pruning hooks. Where is this person? And for your argument---which sect of judaism is the collective messiah that we should seek them?

No there, the few disciples that were sent to wolves who they had to shake the dust of their feet to didnt go to the gentiles first, they went to the wolves first and was rejected and killed by them wolves. But before they died they went to the gentiles/dogs who actually believe the Word of God.

The nation of israel or the religion of judaism can in no way fit any of those prophecies in Isaiah and the OT. The proof is in the pudding. Which sect of judaism is correct? What part of the wall should we be kissing? Should we convert to islam because thats the only building near where the temple was? Oh wait i think there is a catholic cathedral around there also. But all judaism got IS A WALL!!

So what does your "superior knowledge" tell you and how dare I, an insignificant dog, tell a WOLF what the Word of God is saying?

 

[doppelganger]

Pick and choose pick and choose. When will you believe all of Gods Word.

As to what constitutes "all of Gods [sic] Word" all we have is man's word. Which ultimately makes all of God's word nothing more than man's word when one is looking to do so little as to "believe" it.

 

[AK4]

As to what constitutes "all of Gods [sic] Word" all we have is man's word. Which ultimately makes all of God's word nothing more than man's word when one is looking to do so little as to "believe" it.

Well theres a difference with one being inspired of God and one not. The proof of inspiration of the prophets of old and Jesus is in their prophecies coming true and that in no doubt has happened with what they penned.

 

[doppelganger]

Well theres a difference with one being inspired of God and one not. The proof of inspiration of the prophets of old and Jesus is in their prophecies coming true and that in no doubt has happened with what they penned.

Nope. The stories were written based on the would-be "prophecies". They are a sort of midrash in the form of metaphorical fiction.