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From 'born again' to agnostic

it's_sam

it's_sam

Freak of Nature
If you go off scientific evidence the only thing that allows us to do anything is the attraction and repelling of atoms "by this i mean the atoms that make our body are everywhere else". Energy can ONLY transfer it does not obsorb and then go away its a constant equal and oppisate.
 
Autodidact

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
it's_sam said:
If you go off scientific evidence the only thing that allows us to do anything is the attraction and repelling of atoms "by this i mean the atoms that make our body are everywhere else". Energy can ONLY transfer it does not obsorb and then go away its a constant equal and oppisate.
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Is this supposed to be relevant in some way?
 
E

emiliano

Well-Known Member
Misty said:
I wouldn't want to be there with people who think as you do, I doubt any decent deity would want to be with you either, or Jesus!
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Just like I said, don’t worry you won’t. God gave us freedom of choice, it's up to you.
Psa 1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
 
M

Misty

Well-Known Member
emiliano said:
Just like I said, don’t worry you won’t. God gave us freedom of choice, it's up to you.
Psa 1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
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Pathetic threats without any evidence they are true!:no:
 
Autodidact

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
emiliano said:
Just like I said, don’t worry you won’t. God gave us freedom of choice, it's up to you.
Psa 1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
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Now put on your thinking hat, emiliano. She doesn't accept that book as true. Why would a warning from it have any effect?
 
Eliot Wild

Eliot Wild

Irreverent Agnostic Jerk
emiliano said:
Just like I said, don’t worry you won’t. God gave us freedom of choice, it's up to you.
Psa 1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
Click to expand...


Many agnostics, myself included, moved from theism to agnosticism in attempts to escape flawed assumptions and faulty depictions of God, such as those I personally believe are found in the Bible.

Why do some theists seem to think that Biblical arguments made to people who have come to believe the Bible is false will have any consequential impact?

I certainly have not read every post in this thread, but still it is obvious to me from what I have read that the person you are addressing will not be swayed to your arguments by Biblical references. So, why continue to employ them?

Honestly, do people who quote the Bible to nonbelievers think it has some magical power? Or, are you simply more interested in talking AT nonbelievers rather than engaging them openly, honestly, and with some legitimate attempt to reach a functional understanding of each other?

If seems to me one of the first indicators that a person may need to rethink their argument would be if that argument cannot be made rationally sans scriptural validation. If something is true, then it should be able to endure the rational testing of skeptics without relying on Biblical approval.
 
it's_sam

it's_sam

Freak of Nature
Many agnostics, myself included, moved from theism to agnosticism in attempts to escape flawed assumptions and faulty depictions of God, such as those I personally believe are found in the Bible.

Why do some theists seem to think that Biblical arguments made to people who have come to believe the Bible is false will have any consequential impact?

I certainly have not read every post in this thread, but still it is obvious to me from what I have read that the person you are addressing will not be swayed to your arguments by Biblical references. So, why continue to employ them?

Honestly, do people who quote the Bible to nonbelievers think it has some magical power? Or, are you simply more interested in talking AT nonbelievers rather than engaging them openly, honestly, and with some legitimate attempt to reach a functional understanding of each other?

If seems to me one of the first indicators that a person may need to rethink their argument would be if that argument cannot be made rationally sans scriptural validation. If something is true, then it should be able to endure the rational testing of skeptics without relying on Biblical approval.
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I was trying to use a foundation to explain this with physics, wich apearently has nothing to do with our existence and wasnt deemed relevant. So i can take a hint I am not being heard no matter what I say and so ends my side of this conversation.
 
Autodidact

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
it's_sam said:
I was trying to use a foundation to explain this with physics, wich apearently has nothing to do with our existence and wasnt deemed relevant. So i can take a hint I am not being heard no matter what I say and so ends my side of this conversation.
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Really? Because that was completely lost on me.
 
Eliot Wild

Eliot Wild

Irreverent Agnostic Jerk
it's_sam said:
I was trying to use a foundation to explain this with physics, wich apearently has nothing to do with our existence and wasnt deemed relevant. So i can take a hint I am not being heard no matter what I say and so ends my side of this conversation.
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Sorry, I missed that explanation. And that's too bad 'cause such an argument for God, one grounded in actual physical sciences, that is one I would certaily like to read.

And I will add this as well: I personally have no problem with people employing Biblical references as long as the Bible isn't relied on as the totality of the evidence. For example, I believe the most compelling evidence for Christ's divinity that I have observed is the rationality I find in those convictions and teachings which the Bible attributes to him.

In other words, I am willing to concede that Christ may have lived the life attributed to him by the Bible, because I have found no evidence that verifiably refutes these claims. Since I can find no verifiable evidence to the contrary, I also am willing to concede that Christ really did tell his followers that they should treat everyone with compassion, even their enemies. I find this to be a self-evident truth that is upheld and validated also by critical reasoning. It seems completely rational to me that there would be much less pointless violence and misery if everyone followed this instruction. Therefore, I find this statement to be TRUTH.

I don't believe it is true because the Bible says it is. I believe it is true because it passes a self-imposed test of rationality. To me, Jesus spoke truth when he said that is the way people should behave.

Now, I certainly do not find this to be conclusive proof that Jesus was God or otherwise divine in some way. But it is compelling evidence in his favor nonetheless.
 
Danmac

Danmac

Well-Known Member
Misty said:
I was unfortunate enough to have been brought up in a fundamentalist Christian home (pentecostal). The pressure to get 'saved' was great even from a young age. I was told at six years old that if Jesus came I would be left behind, which of course is abusive. I had a sadistic grandmother who took pleasure in telling me from the age of two about the tortures of hell for naughty little girls like me! I held out until I was eleven before giving into the pressure and 'giving my heart to Jesus'! I was even devout for a while and embarrassingly trotted out the cliches so beloved of fundamentalist Christians. However, before long the doubts assailed themselves overwhelmingly, and thankfully by the time I married at 19 my faith slipped away, which was a relief. I am firmly of the opinion that the fundamentalist Christian dogma 'only the saved go to heaven the rest to hell', is a silly nonsense and can be very abusive too.
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According to your own words, you never "chose" for yourself. You gave into pressure. That violated your free moral agency. For one to become a Christian they "must" choose for themselves without "any" outside pressure. My guess is that you got saved to shut everybody up. Hence you "never" got saved.
 
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