From 'born again' to agnostic

[Luminous]

So, you are sinning (by smoking in your example). You are unrepentant about that sin (you keep doing it despite knowing it is 1) a sin, 2) unhealthy for you) but you don' t think that you will spend eternity in Hell because of this particular sin, which is no greater than any other sin.

So, how does that work? Here I was under the impression that 'sin is sin' and to be unrepentant about sin was pretty much like slapping god in the face {at least that is what I have gotten out of this and similar threads recently} and was a one way ticket to hell. At least that is the rhetoric that has been used to justify claiming that gays can't be christians.

So is there a list somewhere with what sins you can get cut some slack for, and which ones (other than the whole believing then denying thing) you won't get slack for? Cause, it seems to me, that you are trying to have it both ways. Your smoking is sort of ok, despite 'sin is sin'; but someone else's "sinful" behavior might not be ok?

save 2. there are two unforgiveable sins, according to christianity...I could be wrong though, im not much into idol scripture. if im right, its odd how some non-christians know more about christianity than those who claim to be christian themselves. no hard feelings though, its very common.

 

[Misty]

I have to agree with this statement.

I gave into pressure to accept the silly 'saved' nonsense, but it was entirely my own decision to get 'unsaved', I was under no pressure to lose my faith.

 

[Luminous]

According to your own statement, you blamed your relatives for your faith. You said...

The pressure to get 'saved' was great even from a young age. I was told at six years old that if Jesus came I would be left behind, which of course is abusive. I had a sadistic grandmother who took pleasure in telling me from the age of two about the tortures of hell for naughty little girls like me! I held out until I was eleven before giving into the pressure and 'giving my heart to Jesus'!

The decision to "give your heart to Jesus" was from pressure. Was it not your desire to silence your sadistic grandmother? Choices that we make when we feel pressured to make them are always done reluctantly. IMO you didn't choose Jesus, your grandmother chose Him for you. Therefore you were never a "true believer". IMO

I have to agree with this statement.

Well, the possibility that she never brainwashed herself seams completely relevant to the discussion. A good thing that she chose not to Blashpheme the Truth of her Agnosticism that she was born with. The Agnosticism that God allows us, in ITs divine grace, to be born with. It is an odd argument to make, the argument that you must truely believe in order to truely believe and see the truth...all that following such desire-filled advise seams to lead to is delusion. Who would want to live their lives, sulking around for forgiveness from the most petiest of possible wrong doings? It is clearly a sad delusion that Christians live...that must be why they find joy in contradicting eachother and making hypocrites out of themselves. That, or they must find solice in their believe that they can commit any horrible transgresion and still be forgiven from all fault and punishment. I mean truely, there is no sense of self-control in Christianity; its all about retrospectively sulking for a second and then BAM you're forgiven because you have convinced your self that you are. Its amazing that such logic continues to survive and thrive actually, but i guess people find ways to fullfill their desires, pety as they may be.

: see? I know more about your kind than you know about yourselves too.

 

[Misty]

The idea that you can get 'saved' on your deathbed even if you were Hitler, and go straight to heaven, yet a throughly good unbeliever, or one of a different faith, is destined for hell, is a complete and utter evil nonsense.

 

[Luminous]

The idea that you can get 'saved' on your deathbed even if you were Hitler, and go straight to heaven, yet a throughly good unbeliever, or one of a different faith, is destined for hell, is a complete and utter evil nonsense.

don't forget, babies get thrown in there too. after all, as jesus said, the place is a garbage pit. all those agnostic babies failed to accept Jesus in time.

 

[Misty]

don't forget, babies get thrown in there too. after all, as jesus said, the place is a garbage pit. all those agnostic babies failed to accept Jesus in time.

How can anyone see anything good in such an unpleasant dogma?

 

[jml03]

Well, the possibility that she never brainwashed herself seams completely relevant to the discussion. A good thing that she chose not to Blashpheme the Truth of her Agnosticism that she was born with. The Agnosticism that God allows us, in ITs divine grace, to be born with. It is an odd argument to make, the argument that you must truely believe in order to truely believe and see the truth...all that following such desire-filled advise seams to lead to is delusion. Who would want to live their lives, sulking around for forgiveness from the most petiest of possible wrong doings? It is clearly a sad delusion that Christians live...that must be why they find joy in contradicting eachother and making hypocrites out of themselves. That, or they must find solice in their believe that they can commit any horrible transgresion and still be forgiven from all fault and punishment. I mean truely, there is no sense of self-control in Christianity; its all about retrospectively sulking for a second and then BAM you're forgiven because you have convinced your self that you are. Its amazing that such logic continues to survive and thrive actually, but i guess people find ways to fullfill their desires, pety as they may be.

: see? I know more about your kind than you know about yourselves too.

Many many many assumptions here. Where to start?

Brainwashed - does one have to be brainwashed in order to believe in something bigger than themselves? No, I beg to differ. I believe in God, He believes in me - and for that matter, I believe He believes in each of us.

Blasphemy - blasphemy can only be performed by someone who has known God, felt His presence, and says He's not real. But, as I said earlier, even that has loopholes. For instance, Peter denied Jesus three times. Do I believe Peter is in Hell? No, not a chance. The bottom line is, it is not for me to say whether someone else is doing wrong. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Some people say and do things in this forum that make me sick, so I have to say I feel that those things are wrong - but that is thru my own personal relationship with God that I can feel that way. Not from a Book, albeit the foremost written authority in my religion.

Contradict - I don't have to contradict anyone on this earth. Earthly opinions are meaningless to me. Is some priest or preacher going to get me into Heaven? No. Do I find joy in this? I find a peace like I've never had. If I wait and rely on God to let me know what to do, things work out so much better in my life. Having said that, I enjoy this forum because I do learn about other peoples beliefs and I'm not closed off to changing my views on certain things.

Horrible Transgression - no, we get punished - in our life here or the next. It's not for me to figure everything out - the hows or whens. I believe the beauty of it is, that no matter how bad you talk about God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit - He will forgive you. Jesus said as He was being beaten, regarding His accusers, "Father forgive them for them for they know not what they do."

Sulking around - I don't sulk around for the petty wrongdoings of my day. I ask for forgiveness and guidance to do better tomorrow. And the things I know I've done that are wrong, well its thru God telling me. I believe my conscience is my Father talking to me. It has never led me wrong.

And I do believe God will turn you into a reprobate mind. I don't believe you can keep sinning and BAM you are forgiven. I believe God will try and try and try, more than I ever would - to get your attention. To show you things and you can deny Him so much or continue with evil and wicked sins(to me these are violent acts, things involving children, serial killers) that He will stop trying for you anymore. But, I believe He looks at you like His child. I have children, I cannot imagine what they would have to do for me to turn my back on them.

Do you really believe that you know more about "our kind" than "we" do? I don't know what "my kind" is, but I believe one thing... I know more about myself than you do and God knows EVERYTHING, about both of us.

 

[jml03]

The idea that you can get 'saved' on your deathbed even if you were Hitler, and go straight to heaven, yet a throughly good unbeliever, or one of a different faith, is destined for hell, is a complete and utter evil nonsense.

Good thing you don't believe in it. I don't believe in some things. I believe the Thief on the cross went to Heaven, but I believe God will turn you into a reprobate mind after so long. He will stop trying for you. I believe in deathbed salvation for some, but not for all. It's not for me to decide who goes and who doesn't.

 

[jml03]

don't forget, babies get thrown in there too. after all, as jesus said, the place is a garbage pit. all those agnostic babies failed to accept Jesus in time.

No, babies are not in Hell. There is an age of accountability. Babies are not old enough to know.

 

[jml03]

save 2. there are two unforgiveable sins, according to christianity...I could be wrong though, im not much into idol scripture. if im right, its odd how some non-christians know more about christianity than those who claim to be christian themselves. no hard feelings though, its very common.

And why is that? Why do you choose to spend your time learning about something you don't believe in? Why do you spend your time mocking someone you believe does not exist? Seems like a waste of time. And there is only one, according to scripture, unforgivable sin.

 

[jml03]

I gave into pressure to accept the silly 'saved' nonsense, but it was entirely my own decision to get 'unsaved', I was under no pressure to lose my faith.

Thus, you were never "saved". You never accepted with your heart and soul. You didn't believe. You let someone else sway your opinion, or you just said what they wanted to hear. Thus, you were never "saved". So, how can you become "unsaved"? Also, why do you spend time out of every day reading the bible, when you mock and disagree with everything in it? Are you still doing what someone else wants you to do?

 

[it's_sam]

:clap

And why is that? Why do you choose to spend your time learning about something you don't believe in? Why do you spend your time mocking someone you believe does not exist? Seems like a waste of time. And there is only one, according to scripture, unforgivable sin.

:clap

 

[it's_sam]

Thus, you were never "saved". You never accepted with your heart and soul. You didn't believe. You let someone else sway your opinion, or you just said what they wanted to hear. Thus, you were never "saved". So, how can you become "unsaved"? Also, why do you spend time out of every day reading the bible, when you mock and disagree with everything in it? Are you still doing what someone else wants you to do?

I just can't believe people think all the stuff they do is THEIRS, like it never happened before and they are the original beholder of their accumilitive thought. Everything that we do except from breathing and pooping is from our brothers before us, you say your not brainwashed but your so brainwashed you think your FREE! A new thought is the baby of two or more older thoughts, and this grew to what we know today. You hold onto the peices that make your brain say "I dont have to", but believers listen to the word and say "why wouldnt I?" and then go to "what more can i find?". Open your mind and the rest will follow.

 

[Misty]

Thus, you were never "saved". You never accepted with your heart and soul. You didn't believe. You let someone else sway your opinion, or you just said what they wanted to hear. Thus, you were never "saved". So, how can you become "unsaved"? Also, why do you spend time out of every day reading the bible, when you mock and disagree with everything in it? Are you still doing what someone else wants you to do?

I do my own thing, nobody tells me what to do, nor would I listen if they did. I enjoy challenging folk with your POV, it is great displacement activity and I will continue to criticise the evil character god character in the Bible, even though I believe it to be a purely human contruct. I suggest you put me on your ignore list if you find my posts offensive.

 

[jml03]

I do my own thing, nobody tells me what to do, nor would I listen if they did. I enjoy challenging folk with your POV, it is great displacement activity and I will continue to criticise the evil character god character in the Bible, even though I believe it to be a purely human contruct. I suggest you put me on your ignore list if you find my posts offensive.

I don't find you offensive, not in any form. That's not what comes to mind when I read your posts. I would not waste my time reading part of a book everyday just to try to "challenge folk".

Also, I've read where you put that on someone else's post "I suggest you put me on your ignore list if you find my posts offensive" Do you only suggest that to people who call you on your posts?

 

[Misty]

I don't find you offensive, not in any form. That's not what comes to mind when I read your posts. I would not waste my time reading part of a book everyday just to try to "challenge folk".

Also, I've read where you put that on someone else's post "I suggest you put me on your ignore list if you find my posts offensive" Do you only suggest that to people who call you on your posts?

I am glad you are not offended by me. But if people are then they have the option of ignoring me.

 

[Autodidact]

According to your own statement, you blamed your relatives for your faith. You said...

The pressure to get 'saved' was great even from a young age. I was told at six years old that if Jesus came I would be left behind, which of course is abusive. I had a sadistic grandmother who took pleasure in telling me from the age of two about the tortures of hell for naughty little girls like me! I held out until I was eleven before giving into the pressure and 'giving my heart to Jesus'!

The decision to "give your heart to Jesus" was from pressure. Was it not your desire to silence your sadistic grandmother? Choices that we make when we feel pressured to make them are always done reluctantly. IMO you didn't choose Jesus, your grandmother chose Him for you. Therefore you were never a "true believer". IMO

So that sounds like you oppose religious education for children.

 

[Danmac]

So that sounds like you oppose religious education for children.

I believe all children should be indoctrinated with the truth.

 

[TEXASBULL]

I believe all children should be indoctrinated with the truth.

Great! More science and rational thinking for children all over the world.


" I want the truth! You can't handle the truth!" ..... a few good men.

 

[Danmac]

I do my own thing, nobody tells me what to do, nor would I listen if they did. I enjoy challenging folk with your POV, it is great displacement activity and I will continue to criticise the evil character god character in the Bible, even though I believe it to be a purely human contruct. I suggest you put me on your ignore list if you find my posts offensive.

People may not tell you what to do, but they sure use mind control to get you to do what they want you to do. That is, according to you. IMO you were never a Christian.

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.