From 'born again' to agnostic

[Danmac]

The idea that you can get 'saved' on your deathbed even if you were Hitler, and go straight to heaven, yet a throughly good unbeliever, or one of a different faith, is destined for hell, is a complete and utter evil nonsense.

You cannot relate to the depth of God's mercy. IMO

 

[it's_sam]

I do my own thing, nobody tells me what to do, nor would I listen if they did. I enjoy challenging folk with your POV, it is great displacement activity and I will continue to criticise the evil character god character in the Bible, even though I believe it to be a purely human contruct. I suggest you put me on your ignore list if you find my posts offensive.

since this would be more then enough for me to boot her outa the forum....... Anyone for tea?

 

[TEXASBULL]

People may not tell you what to do, but they sure use mind control to get you to do what they want you to do. That is, according to you. IMO you were never a Christian.

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

What about me? I was saved for 15 years. prayed everyday, went to church at least 3 times a week, preached , laid hands, etc.

are you saying that because I changed my views that I " Never" knew the lord? I dedicated my life and everything that was within me to Christianity and Christ. How do you explain my situation? I guess you will just call me a backslider or deceived by the devil.

I call myself free from mind control and emotional addiction. It feels good

 

[sniper762]

misty, you just simply physically, mentally and spiritualy "grew up"

 

[Luminous]

Many many many assumptions here. Where to start?

Brainwashed - does one have to be brainwashed in order to believe in something bigger than themselves? No, I beg to differ. I believe in God, He believes in me - and for that matter, I believe He believes in each of us.

NO, one does not need to be brain washed in order to believe anything. all they need to be is convinced. Brain washing would require that people tell half-truths and mistreat evidence. It would require that people's perseption of reality gets molded into something that is more subseptible to non-reasoned arguments and dogmatism. Oh, I believe in THE ONLY GOD. and IT believes in you. I do not need any idol scriptures or other anti-agnostic things to hammer into me what they believe to be true, in their personal sense of reality.

Blasphemy - blasphemy can only be performed by someone who has known God, felt His presence, and says He's not real. But, as I said earlier, even that has loopholes. For instance, Peter denied Jesus three times. Do I believe Peter is in Hell? No, not a chance. The bottom line is, it is not for me to say whether someone else is doing wrong. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Some people say and do things in this forum that make me sick, so I have to say I feel that those things are wrong - but that is thru my own personal relationship with God that I can feel that way. Not from a Book, albeit the foremost written authority in my religion.

I was under the Impresion that blasphemy meant lying and twisting truths in relation to Holy things, but thanks for correcting me. However, again the logic seams to be confounded, how can anyone ever deny what is true, if they have "known and felt" it? It would be ridiculous to deny the wind. it is not, however, ridiculous to deny the phisibility and existance of proposed ideas. With your idea of blasphemy, anyone would be hard pressed to find a guilty party.
The unforgivable sin was not denying Jesus, Peter could have denyed Jesus 1001 times. I believe what Jesus of Nazareth said was that it was unforgivable to blaspheme the Holy Spirit that he believed resided within him. This was because the priests and others were accusing him of demonic possesion. In essence Blaspheming the holy spirit by calling it a demon. This would be the first unforgivable sin, claiming things that are not true about the holy spirit, bearing false witness for or against it.
Now, if you were a little more informed on your idol scripture, you would understand that it is very likely that "let he without sin" was added much later in history to the Chrisitan bible. In any case, anyone who actually thought about it would immidiately suspect such a passage, being as Jesus of Nazareth was claimed to be without sin.
Authority? the day a book has authority is the day a book has arms. a book will not confess to its lies even under the most tourturous of punishments. idolatry is a dangerous thing.

Contradict - I don't have to contradict anyone on this earth. Earthly opinions are meaningless to me. Is some priest or preacher going to get me into Heaven? No. Do I find joy in this? I find a peace like I've never had. If I wait and rely on God to let me know what to do, things work out so much better in my life. Having said that, I enjoy this forum because I do learn about other peoples beliefs and I'm not closed off to changing my views on certain things.

vey enlightening and humbling...thank you.

Horrible Transgression - no, we get punished - in our life here or the next. It's not for me to figure everything out - the hows or whens. I believe the beauty of it is, that no matter how bad you talk about God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit - He will forgive you. Jesus said as He was being beaten, regarding His accusers, "Father forgive them for them for they know not what they do."

I belive he was referring to the fact that they were murdering him. Not that they were talking bad about God, or him, or the Unforgiving Holy Spirit.

Sulking around - I don't sulk around for the petty wrongdoings of my day. I ask for forgiveness and guidance to do better tomorrow. And the things I know I've done that are wrong, well its thru God telling me. I believe my conscience is my Father talking to me. It has never led me wrong.

This is very reasonable, however by "sulking" i was referring to feeling sorry. how can you be truely repentant if you dont feel sorry?

And I do believe God will turn you into a reprobate mind. I don't believe you can keep sinning and BAM you are forgiven. I believe God will try and try and try, more than I ever would - to get your attention. To show you things and you can deny Him so much or continue with evil and wicked sins(to me these are violent acts, things involving children, serial killers) that He will stop trying for you anymore. But, I believe He looks at you like His child. I have children, I cannot imagine what they would have to do for me to turn my back on them.

I did not mean for it to come out that way, what i meant was that you can feel sorry for a fraction of a second and BAM you are forgiven. If you are refering to me personally, I do not deny God, IT is always with me. And I am always blessed. But as a wise sci-fi character once said: there is no try, there is only do and do not do.

Do you really believe that you know more about "our kind" than "we" do? I don't know what "my kind" is, but I believe one thing... I know more about myself than you do and God knows EVERYTHING, about both of us.

ANYWAY,
: It was a joke. I was sorta trying to be Ironic sinse some anti-agnostics were trying to label us, and explain Misty's life to her. I don't know what you believe in. The title of Christianity means very very little. I only know that i do not know for sure, and in the bottom of everyone's heart... i know they understand this truth too, because they are not infallible.

 

[Luminous]

No, babies are not in Hell. There is an age of accountability. Babies are not old enough to know.

so, do babies go to heaven?

 

[Luminous]

And why is that? Why do you choose to spend your time learning about something you don't believe in? Why do you spend your time mocking someone you believe does not exist? Seems like a waste of time. And there is only one, according to scripture, unforgivable sin.

Its relevant to my reality, afterall those things are there to be learned and mocked. Other than that, I enjoy helping people get back on the path of truth and honor. And concerning God, I am here to fix all the false anti-agnostic believes people have about IT. If I believed it didn't exist, i would be in as much fault for denying the truth of Agnosticism as any athiest or theist. Helping your kind is as much a waste of time as reading a book, playing a sport, or taking an extra breath. Only one unforgivable sin acording to your chosen idol scripture?? really what is your scripture? and which sin is that?

 

[sniper762]

if anybody goes to heaven, then babies do

 

[Luminous]

if anybody goes to heaven, then babies do

And there in lies the paradox, that Abortion and genicide of babies is a mercifull thing. such anti-agnostic believes are truely convoluted and underthought.

 

[Luminous]

You cannot relate to the depth of God's mercy. IMO

Neither can you, IMHO.

 

[Luminous]

People may not tell you what to do, but they sure use mind control to get you to do what they want you to do. That is, according to you. IMO you were never a Christian.

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

in·iq·ui·ty

1.
gross injustice or wickedness.

2. a violation of right or duty; wicked act; sin.






Origin:
1300–50; ME < L in&#299;quit&#257;s unevenness, unfairness, equiv. to in&#299;qu ( us ) uneven, unfair ( in- in-3 + -&#299;quus, comb. form of aequus even, equal) + -it&#257;s -ity

—Can be confused: &#8194; inequity, iniquity .

—Synonyms
1. evildoing, infamy, depravity, knavery.


If anything, the idol passage is a clear indication that Jesus wants you to be sinless like he was able to do. God came to Earth to show that a human could be sinless. IMO on Jesus' actual minestry.

 

[Danmac]

What about me? I was saved for 15 years. prayed everyday, went to church at least 3 times a week, preached , laid hands, etc.

are you saying that because I changed my views that I " Never" knew the lord? I dedicated my life and everything that was within me to Christianity and Christ. How do you explain my situation? I guess you will just call me a backslider or deceived by the devil.

I call myself free from mind control and emotional addiction. It feels good

Jesus said, "And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. (John 10:4-5)

According to this, if you were a true sheep you would not hear the voice of strangers. It is possible that you became angry at God and backslid as a result. But, according to the Bible, it is not possible to deny God if His Spirit is living in you.

2Ti 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

It is probable that you were never born again. IMO

 

[The Neo Nerd]

I believe all children should be indoctrinated with the truth.

Wouldnt it be much better if they were indoctrinated with the facts.

Truth is subjective to the truth teller.

Which tellers truth should we indoctrinate children with.

-Q

 

[Luminous]

Thus, you were never "saved". You never accepted with your heart and soul. You didn't believe. You let someone else sway your opinion, or you just said what they wanted to hear. Thus, you were never "saved". So, how can you become "unsaved"? Also, why do you spend time out of every day reading the bible, when you mock and disagree with everything in it? Are you still doing what someone else wants you to do?

Clearly Misty, you are no true scottsman and never were. Other than that, I would be hard pressed to find a Christian who doesn't mock and disagree with a Buddhist or a Mulsim or a Hindu. If I may be so bold, there is no "doing what other want" or "caving in to pressure" there is only do and do not do, by your own choice and business.

 

[Danmac]

in·iq·ui·ty

1.
gross injustice or wickedness.

2. a violation of right or duty; wicked act; sin.






Origin:
1300–50; ME < L in&#299;quit&#257;s unevenness, unfairness, equiv. to in&#299;qu ( us ) uneven, unfair ( in- in-3 + -&#299;quus, comb. form of aequus even, equal) + -it&#257;s -ity

—Can be confused: &#8194; inequity, iniquity .

—Synonyms
1. evildoing, infamy, depravity, knavery.


If anything, the idol passage is a clear indication that Jesus wants you to be sinless like he was able to do. God came to Earth to show that a human could be sinless. IMO on Jesus' actual minestry.

Christ in me is sinless. Therefore I am without sin for judgment sake. IBO

1st John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

But I am still human an very capable of committing things that constitute sin.

1Jo 1:8 ¶ If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

 

[Danmac]

Wouldnt it be much better if they were indoctrinated with the facts.

Truth is subjective to the truth teller.

Which tellers truth should we indoctrinate children with.

-Q

This kind of truth......

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

This kind of truth......

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.

So you've replied with a incomprehensible passage from your mystical text.

First of all could you explain what you meant by it.

Then could you explain why children should be indoctrinated by your mystical texts instead of mine.

-Q

 

[Luminous]

Jesus said, "And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. (John 10:4-5)

According to this, if you were a true sheep you would not hear the voice of strangers. It is possible that you became angry at God and backslid as a result. But, according to the Bible, it is not possible to deny God if His Spirit is living in you.

2Ti 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

It is probable that you were never born again. IMO

so according to your idol scripture: no true scottsman can deny himself?
BTW: sheep are not people. and actually what the idol passage insinuates is that if you are a true sheeplike person, you would runaway from everything that wasn't familiar...which many christians do, so A+ on that.
there is that word again "backsliding." Is it not possible that you are backsliding from Agnostic Truth?

 

[Danmac]

So you've replied with a incomprehensible passage from your mystical text.

First of all could you explain what you meant by it.

Then could you explain why children should be indoctrinated by your mystical texts instead of mine.

-Q

We are designed to relate to what is true. People that respond to truth, bear witness to it that it is true.

 

[TEXASBULL]

Jesus said, "And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. (John 10:4-5)

According to this, if you were a true sheep you would not hear the voice of strangers. It is possible that you became angry at God and backslid as a result. But, according to the Bible, it is not possible to deny God if His Spirit is living in you.

2Ti 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

It is probable that you were never born again. IMO

If God spirit was not living in me, then no one on this earth was ever " born again".

i understand it is hard to grasp the concept of someone so faithful and did so much for the church to go the other way. Many of my friends and family do not understand also.

I prayed for hours in all night prayer, studied the bible, was a bible school teacher, preached every week, worked with teenagers, etc. You say I never really was saved? lol.

I just finally figured out that Gods " spirit " was never living inside of me. I had very heavy emotional experiences that led to a narrow minded repetitious pattern that I was stuck in for most of my 20's and early 30's. When you are in it as deep as I was and you are now currently, it is almost impossible to question with rational thought some of the most basic questions. I know what you are going through.

I had a scripture for every answer in my life also. I would justify and rationalize every thought and act I did in my life with a king james bible verse. I was really a walking zombie and viewed everyone else a blind to the "truth".

Try as you might, you cannot deny I exist. A born again believer who is well versed in bible study for years to change my beliefs with rational thought and the guts to challenge what others was telling me was truth.

The longer you hang around RF, the more they will help you cross over. The only escape is to run from places like this and surround yourself with like minded robots who all say the same thing.