Frustrated athiest asks why do you believe in God?

[Wildswanderer]

Your feelings are real to you, that dont make god real.

I just said that my feelings don't make God real.
He exists without my help.
My only role is to point out his existence.

 

[F1fan]

What is the fun in first making them sociopaths and then giving rules (which they will not follow)? That is a silly scheme. No one intelligent will do it.

The interesting thing about sociopaths is that while they don't care about other people they do care what happens to them. They don't want to end up in prison any more than we do. So they don't drive the speed limit in a school zone because it will protect the lives of kids, but they know the rules and the consequences, so they comply. They would feel more pain by getting a speeding ticket than they would running over a child. But they also know they'd be in big trouble if they killed a kid by driving too fast. So they have motivation based on unpleasant consequences.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Then tell us your view as to why your God should make 1 in 24 people as psychopaths of different intensities?

Your question assumes a God of determinism.
We live in a world that is broken by sin...every form of sickness is the result of man's wrong doing.
God allows this for now because he has a purpose that you don't understand. If he took away all brokeness we would already be in heaven. But this world isn't yet remade back into Eden. This is still the test.. not the reward.

 

[Wildswanderer]

The interesting thing about sociopaths is that while they don't care about other people they do care what happens to them. They don't want to end up in prison any more than we do. So they don't drive the speed limit in a school zone because it will protect the lives of kids, but they know the rules and the consequences, so they comply. They would feel more pain by getting a speeding ticket than they would running over a child. But they also know they'd be in big trouble if they killed a kid by driving too fast. So they have motivation based on unpleasant consequences.

Huh. Kinda like people being good because they don't want to go to hell or be annihilated after they die. Imagine that.

 

[rational experiences]

Natural humans not poor were first. Rich in the life supply food for survival water.

Think correctly.

Poor man is rich man's owned personal opposition fake. What he fears who he fears as he invented the causes.

Natural life knows best.

God to a human.
O the planet. Stated as it is known O the earth created it's own heavens.

Human lives inside heavens protected from sun that attacked earth mass and gases.

Said the mother of the planet space keeps us all safe.

Pretty basic correct just a human advice.

No science no theist no machines no greed. No lying.

Basic humanity.

So a liar of a machine theist inventor tries to demean a natural humans aware advice by word use.

Sophism he said. I will put this term in a shared with others book as an advice preaching to myself. A humans cunning contrivance.

As it is.

The dictionary used as much in reference as a book in life compared to the bible. Word inference.

Holy words first. Places the dictionary holier than a word book inferring numbers.

 

[Audie]

Tell you what Wild- never mind.

 

[F1fan]

Yes because it's hard to be an atheist in prison. Those people need to believe in something outside of themselves.
Atheism is a movement comprised mostly of middle-to-upper-class white people also.
Poor people know they need God.

So you are saying that people in states of mental stress can benefit from religious thought? This is called a coping strategy which people do use in times of trauma and stress. It typically involved illusion or fantasy or visualizations. And you concede that people whose lives are stable don't have emotional and mental needs like from religion?

 

[F1fan]

It consists of much more than emotions.
Once you hear from him it's hard to deny he is real.

And since you already admitted that religion is more attractive to people with emotional stress, what exactly is it that these people "hear" from God, and what do these people do to discern what they "hear" is authentic and not imagination?

Explain the process.

 

[rational experiences]

Your question assumes a God of determinism.
We live in a world that is broken by sin...every form of sickness is the result of man's wrong doing.
God allows this for now because he has a purpose that you don't understand. If he took away all brokeness we would already be in heaven. But this world isn't yet remade back into Eden. This is still the test.. not the reward.

Sophi st commentary owns a pre motivated other want not just reading.

About new machines and want new reactions so lies about word use.

Not even actually using the terms taught.

A human lives walking on the ground life sacrificed in holy water as burning science caused fallout causes life's harm.

He says I haven't yet hit made a mark on every single living body. Let me confer it to a controlled transmitting machine so I can get everyone at once in the same transmitted attack.

Oh he says...
I can't humans are not single built held ground machine bodies as God the earth first is a huge mass...wish I could use it as a weapon.

 

[F1fan]

Huh. Kinda like people being good because they don't want to go to hell or be annihilated after they die. Imagine that.

Except many Christians who think they are god are NOT. Look at all those Baptists in the Confederate South who fought to maintain slavery. And their argument was because slavery was allowed in the Bible. No doubt these "good" slave owners were certain they were going to heaven. Would you agree?

 

[Aupmanyav]

No it doesn't, because God is real whether I believe or not, whether I acknowledge my need or not.

I have been given many warning for making such bland statements, though I complain very rarely. Such statements in forums other than 'General Religious Debate' forum are against the forum rules, proselytizing.

Once you hear from him it's hard to deny he is real.

Ah! So we are going to hear from him? And you do not know when? You do not have a time line for 'End of Days'.
Science has a few theories about the Ultimate fate of the universe: Ultimate fate of the universe - Wikipedia

If he took away all brokenness we would already be in heaven. But this world isn't yet remade back into Eden. This is still the test.. not the reward.

What is wrong with making the world a heaven if he can? And what is the fun in making people suffer? Look at Ukraine at the moment. And Ukraine is not the only one to suffer. All people suffer from something or the other - Covid-19 is an example. What fun did God get from unleashing such a disease on the world which has killed more than 6 million people till now? I bet most people who died were Christians. It is Sadism in form of tests.

 

[firedragon]

Summary: Why do you believe in God? What do you find to be the most compelling evidence that God exists?

Long Version:
I have found that I am getting frustrated at the thought of people who do not listen to reason, logic, evidence, and facts. You may have noticed this frustration seeping into the conversations I have on RF. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just angry at you for not seeing what I see, which is not really fair. I'll will try to have more patience and explain things more clearly in the future.

One way to influence others is to first be influenced by them. In other words, seek first to understand, then to be understood. Maybe I would be less frustrated if I actually knew the reasons why you believe in God. Help me understand, and in turn I will respectfully respond, and if you care to hear I will respond with the reasons why I don't believe in God.

Thank you in advance for the conversation

Belief in God is because of reason and logic.

But when it comes to evidence and facts, you will have to explain what they are to you and what kind of evidence would address God. The usual script on the internet is something like testable, repeatable evidence or something like that which is made by illogical atheists on the internet. Rather, why not show an example of evidence and facts and how you determine something.

 

[PruePhillip]

I didn't think I had to explicitly say I am open to hear your reasons, since I was the one who asked the question.





Maybe I should explain why I care what others believe. I think some religious practices are immoral, destructive, wicked.. etc. I think we should use knowledge from the 21st century to create a better world, not rely on ancient nonsense. My only objective is to make the world a better place, and I try to do that by presenting facts, evidence, rational and logical reasoning. A quick example from Islam (I know Muslims are not engaging in this chat currently, but there are more than 2 billion of them world-wide): Muslims believe homosexuality is an abomination. My brother happens to be gay, and he has contributed more to society than anyone I know (he is a neuroscientist working on treatments for post traumatic stress disorder, among other things). My issue is not that people believe in God, its that God "apparently" endorses slavery, murder, child abuse, etc. (Judaism, Christianity, Islam)


This is so ironic it almost does a 360 and becomes not ironic.

Don't ask if it's ironic (which it is) but ask whether it's factual.
If it's 360 we haven't actually moved - you mean 180.

 

[F1fan]

Belief in God is because of reason and logic.

Give us an example of this being true.

 

[ppp]

Belief in God is because of reason and logic.

Supply the reason and the logic.

 

[Jacob Samuelson]

Summary: Why do you believe in God? What do you find to be the most compelling evidence that God exists?

Long Version:
I have found that I am getting frustrated at the thought of people who do not listen to reason, logic, evidence, and facts. You may have noticed this frustration seeping into the conversations I have on RF. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just angry at you for not seeing what I see, which is not really fair. I'll will try to have more patience and explain things more clearly in the future.

One way to influence others is to first be influenced by them. In other words, seek first to understand, then to be understood. Maybe I would be less frustrated if I actually knew the reasons why you believe in God. Help me understand, and in turn I will respectfully respond, and if you care to hear I will respond with the reasons why I don't believe in God.

Thank you in advance for the conversation

Your frustration is a logical response. Though psychologically it typically means that you have not resolved an issue that is deep within yourself. You desperately want everyone to see your way hoping that would make life a lot easier for you. With this you will only continue your frustration.

You may disagree with me, but Atheism's design is to eliminate reason. The universe was created without reason. There was no purpose or plan, it just happened. The reason you struggle could because of reason itself. Its a paradox. You might be able to say the reason the Earth exists is by gravity, and the reason gravity exist is by quantum fields, and the reason that quantum fields exists is because it just does, you will ultimately get to an point where reason becomes the same as a Theist. 'Because it just does.' We say 'Because He's God.' Same idea, different sentences.

I have never been able to be convinced that Atheism is real. The very moment that you consider an absence of something, is paradoxically the same moment you consider the opposite to be true. Just like how you can never call something dark without acknowledging that light exists somewhere out there as well. The absence of God cannot be fathomed without God to exist somewhere.

In order for true atheism to exist, you would have to explored every inch of the universe in infinite directions, in infinite dimensions, in infinite universes to come with any conclusion of this fact that there does not exist a being that would match our description of God.

Because of this limitation of human capabilities, I believe it is more primitive to believe their isn't a God than to accept reality that their is one. You deny a reason to believe anything at all if not for a design or purpose to begin with. I can see why you are frustrated. The primary function of your brain is to imagine and then to think. If you eliminate imagination, you eliminate reality itself.

Theist claim to have seen God with their own eyes. They claim that Earth itself is God, They claim that God is the Universe. They have imagined a being since the dawn of time. That imagination has evolved to something very real and very tangible to them. Who would want the absence of that?

 

[Truthseeker]

Maybe I should explain why I care what others believe. I think some religious practices are immoral, destructive, wicked.. etc. I think we should use knowledge from the 21st century to create a better world, not rely on ancient nonsense. My only objective is to make the world a better place, and I try to do that by presenting facts, evidence, rational and logical reasoning. A quick example from Islam (I know Muslims are not engaging in this chat currently, but there are more than 2 billion of them world-wide): Muslims believe homosexuality is an abomination. My brother happens to be gay, and he has contributed more to society than anyone I know (he is a neuroscientist working on treatments for post traumatic stress disorder, among other things). My issue is not that people believe in God, its that God "apparently" endorses slavery, murder, child abuse, etc. (Judaism, Christianity, Islam)

I don't endorse that, and neither does my religion. I'm married to a gay person. Sometimes people believe in God these days but are not religious. As long as a religious person doesn't advocate for something that you think is injurious, leave it alone about God.

 

[F1fan]

I have never been able to be convinced that Atheism is real.

Atheism isn't a thing. The word atheism means non-theism. It just means a person isn't a theist. This person isn't convinced that religious ideas and claims are true. That's it.

Atheists exist. They aren't convinced religious concepts are valid and true. It's that simple.

Theist claim to have seen God with their own eyes. They claim that Earth itself is God, They claim that God is the Universe. They have imagined a being since the dawn of time. That imagination has evolved to something very real and very tangible to them. Who would want the absence of that?

Because once you understand your illusion is an illusion, you can't really believe it's true. And who wants to be lost in an illusion?

 

[firedragon]

Supply the reason and the logic.

What are there axioms in logic you stand by?

 

[ppp]

What are there axioms in logic you stand by?

Supply the reason and the logic.