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Frustrated athiest asks why do you believe in God?

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Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
Subduction Zone said:
Go back and reread my post. Did I say that all of them are a result of that? Even more appear to be leaving the faith than joining it so the "people are convinced" argument is not a good one for you to use.
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Maybe in the USA, but not everywhere. Last I knew south American churches were growing like crazy.
 
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Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
Subduction Zone said:
Sorry, but a weak understanding of right and wrong is not enough. Your God also appears to play hide and seek and when he wins he punishes those that he hid from. How is that just?
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No he doesn't. He even came to earth. What more do you want? Jesus said some would not be convinced even if someone came back from the grave, and that has proven to be true.
 
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F1fan

Veteran Member
Wildswanderer said:
I'm pretty sure you are capable of understanding that free will has a price.
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In reality, that means from a psychological point of view, there is no actual free will. We humans make choices but evidence suggests they aren't completely deliberate nor conscious.

And I certainly don't see how your typical Christian interpretation of Genesis and related Christian ideas make any sense. It certainly wouldn't be a competent or moral God that you describe in your beliefs. If it exists then it's not worthy of worship.
 
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F1fan

Veteran Member
Wildswanderer said:
No he doesn't. He even came to earth. What more do you want? Jesus said some would not be convinced even if someone came back from the grave, and that has proven to be true.
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He came to earth to fix a problem He didn't fix when He flooded the planet. Even Jesus being executed solved what? It's all theological absurdities. It's all absurd literally. If Christians interpreted these ideas metaphorically it would actually be a pretty good theology.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
F1fan said:
He came to earth to fix a problem He didn't fix when He flooded the planet. Even Jesus being executed solved what? It's all theological absurdities. It's all absurd literally. If Christians interpreted these ideas metaphorically it would actually be a pretty good theology.
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Literalists can never see how they refute their own beliefs. And yet when their children grow up and go to college and learn how much of what they believe is just plain wrong they blame " evolution ".
 
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F1fan

Veteran Member
Subduction Zone said:
Literalists can never see how they refute their own beliefs. And yet when their children grow up and go to college and learn how much of what they believe is just plain wrong they blame " evolution ".
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In a way I think the more absurd the concept the more attractive it is for more conservative believers. We don't see liberal Christians attracted to YEC.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
F1fan said:
In a way I think the more absurd the concept the more attractive it is for more conservative believers. We don't see liberal Christians attracted to YEC.
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I no longer think of Republicans as "conservative". They now appear to be a party of extremists and special interest groups. For decades we heard Republicans pointing out the special interest groups of the Democrats. They took that bad trait and made it their specialty. Gun rights, anti abortionists, anti tax, and science denial all have found a home with the Republicans.
 
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Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
F1fan said:
In reality, that means from a psychological point of view, there is no actual free will. We humans make choices but evidence suggests they aren't completely deliberate nor conscious.

And I certainly don't see how your typical Christian interpretation of Genesis and related Christian ideas make any sense. It certainly wouldn't be a competent or moral God that you describe in your beliefs. If it exists then it's not worthy of worship.
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Ok maybe I overestimated your understanding of free will.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Wildswanderer said:
Nope you can Google it.
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I did, You may have conflated growth due to a high birthrate with a growth due to conversion. Worldwide when it comes to conversion Christianity has lost far more than they have gained:

Christian population growth - Wikipedia

According to Pew Research religious switching is projected to have a modest impact on changes in the Christian population. According to a study by the Pew Research Center, it is expected to convert to Christianity 40,060,000 persons, while leaving Christianity 106,110,000 persons, thus, it is a net loss for Christianity nearly 66,050,000 between 2010 and 2050, and according to the same study, Christianity is expected to have the largest net loses through religious conversion.[4][10]

One has to be careful of one's sources because they will often cherry pick. When it comes to conversion from another religion Christianity seems to lead the way, but that is still a much smaller number than its losses:

According to the World Christian Encyclopedia, approximately 2.7 million convert to Christianity annually from another religion; World Christian Encyclopedia also stated that Christianity ranks in first place in net gains through religious conversion.[5] While, according to book "The Oxford Handbook of Religious Conversion", which published by the professor of Christian mission Charles E. Farhadian,[11] and the professor of psychology Lewis Ray Rambo,[12] between 1990 and 2000, approximately 1.9 million people converted to Christianity from another religion, with Christianity ranking first in net gains through religious conversion.[13] According to "The Oxford Handbook of Religious Conversion", in mid-2005 approximately 15.5 million convert to Christianity from another religion, approximately 11.7 million leave Christianity, and most of them become irreligious, resulting in a net gain of 3.8 million.[6]

But you are right about growth being high in Latin America, but that is probably due to population growth. It is clearly not conversion:


Christianity adds about 65.1 million people due to factors such as birth rate and religious conversion, while losing 27.4 million people due to factors such as death rate and religious apostasy in mid-2005. Most of the net growth in the numbers of Christians is in Africa, Latin America and Asia.[6]
 
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