Frustrated athiest asks why do you believe in God?

[Daniel Nicholson]

Of course i believe the Bible. I also believe that the God big enough to make the rules has the authority to break the rules he made when he decides to.

Okay, so god is good even when he is not. Got it. No wonder there are 35,000 denominations of Christianity when everyone can make up their own rules. Me think you should make it 35,001

 

[Wildswanderer]

Christian theology has few factual elements, and most of it is an exercise in absurdity. None of what you say here is factual. It might be part of your religious dogma but it means little in discussions where facts are critical.

You don't have any facts.

 

[Wildswanderer]

You are avoiding my point. It's that more conservative Christians behave in a way that is contrary to what jesus taught, and that suggests they aren't all that interested in belief in God, and more interested in what political polices they just justify through religious exploitation. The only reason to be a conservative Christian these days is to justify some immoral political position or some anti-science stance.

Hogwash. You have no idea how these people live in their personal lives. Christianity isn't a political decision.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Okay, so god is good even when he is not. Got it. No wonder there are 35,000 denominations of Christianity when everyone can make up their own rules. Me think you should make it 35,001

We don't make our rules. God did that already. The Creator of all has a right over his creation. He decides when everyone will live and die. That's part of being sovereign.

 

[Wildswanderer]

What I said was true. Your next comment didn't even refer to the point of one species killing it's own for sport.


I never said there wasn't. But if your weasel comment is true there will be an explanation for this unique behavior.

It's not unique. It's very common in animals. And yes they kill thier own also. The male bear is kicked out of the den because he will eat the young otherwise.

 

[Wildswanderer]

So mercy absolves the sinner of his responsibilities? Okay, so what about the victim? Where is their mercy? Who makes it up to them?

Please answer the question posed to you:

But again, how does that absolve us of our bad behaviors, and what's moral about scapegoating our responsibilities onto someone else?

It absolves us through a blood sacrifice as God initiated in the Torah.
It's moral because God decided it is, and there's no higher authority.

 

[Wildswanderer]

That's why your version of Christianity finds death repulsive. I don't intuitively know or think anybody is going to live forever. You do because your religion says so.

I find death repulsive because it takes our loved ones away from us. But I also realize that it can be merciful, as when someone is in excruciating pain, as my grandfather was.

If we were originally created to live forever, as you say, then you're demonstrating yet again that the God of the Bible is bumbler who can't seem to get anything right, despite repeated attempts to do so.

Actually his plan from the beginning was to sacrifice himself for us... Nothing they did took him by surprise. Our mistakes were allowed by God but they are our responsibility.

 

[Wildswanderer]

That's not killing for the sake of killing. That is killing for resources (e.g. hens to eat), as the poster pointed out. Unless you think the weasel was just doing it for fun?

Yes... as he only ate a bit of one chicken. Bloodlust is very common among predators.. I've many times seen where mink also will kill multiple fish and leave most to rot. Even our dog will kill a cat simply because she gets excited by it's fighting back. She has no interest in eating it.

 

[F1fan]

It's not unique. It's very common in animals. And yes they kill thier own also. The male bear is kicked out of the den because he will eat the young otherwise.

And there are reasons why males of certain carnivore species kill off the young, and that is explained as a power grab. Even cats will do this. Mother cats will kill and eat some of their young if food is scarce.

What we see in Ukraine is humans killing other humans for the sake of ideology. Putin is even destroying the cities he's claiming to be rescuing from corrupt leaders, which isn't true. Humans are supposed to be rational and smarter than other animals, yet we see humans do very stupid things that other animals won't do, like fight over petty ideas.

 

[F1fan]

Actually his plan from the beginning was to sacrifice himself for us...

Well God would have to plan for this since God planned for the Fall of mankind. It's all been either a setup against humans, or an incompetent God.

Nothing they did took him by surprise. Our mistakes were allowed by God but they are our responsibility.

Great, so God knew Adam and Eve would not obey the rules, and that is because they were designed to fail. If God can't be surprised, then God knew ahead of time. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Humans are supposed to be rational and smarter than other animals, yet we see humans do very stupid things that other animals won't do, like fight over petty ideas.

So killing for fun makes more sense than fighting over ideals?

 

[F1fan]

Yes... as he only ate a bit of one chicken. Bloodlust is very common among predators.. I've many times seen where mink also will kill multiple fish and leave most to rot. Even our dog will kill a cat simply because she gets excited by it's fighting back. She has no interest in eating it.

And there are reasons for this behavior, and it usually has to do with their way of relating to other members of their species. They aren't making a deliberate and planned decision here like humans do. They are acting on instinct as dictated by evolution.

We humans have many innate behaviors due to evolution, like our prevalence to religious belief and how we will seek shortcuts in thinking and adopt group norms in order to feel belonging. Our insecurities can drive a lot of behaviors and decisions that are not rational. Our emotions can influence and drive a great deal, and we are not always consciously aware of this occurring in our thinking process. We often act impulsively and automatically as we age.

 

[F1fan]

So killing for fun makes more sense than fighting over ideals?

Ask a trophy hunter.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Great, so God knew Adam and Eve would not obey the rules, and that is because they were designed to fail. If God can't be surprised, then God knew ahead of time. You can't have it both ways.

Of course he knew ahead of time... He's omniscient, he has all knowledge and is not bound by time. So the other options were to not create humans or to create them as robots. I happen to think God made the best choice. That doesn't mean they were designed to fail, they still had the choice.

 

[Wildswanderer]

They aren't making a deliberate and planned decision here like humans do.

But at times they do. They hunt in strategic ways.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Ask a trophy hunter.

I don't know any that kill for fun... The challenge and the fun is trying to pattern a certain animal. There's certainly people that do kill for fun but we usually think of them as defective.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Ask a trophy hunter.

But you didn't answer the question.

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey said: ↑
"the responsibility lies with the deity to make itself known if it can and wants to."

And that is why G-d sends his Messengers and prophets with true religions wherein is the message as to how to seek Him and the path to reach Him, please. Right?

The messages of these messengers are not convincing to a critical thinker. As I said, once one learns such skills, his criteria for belief become purely empirical. He needs compelling evidence before believing. No messenger has offered compelling evidence of a deity by those standards.

"He needs compelling evidence before believing. No messenger has offered compelling evidence of a deity by those standards
The " nones" can't play on the both sides of the wicket."

On one hand they say that there should not be compulsion in the religion because of free will, and now one wants " compelling" evidence.
What compelling evidence one found in "none(ism)" that one jumped into it, please?

Right?

 

[F1fan]

But at times they do. They hunt in strategic ways.

All instinctual and learned behavior. They don't have reasoning capacity like humans.

 

[F1fan]

But you didn't answer the question.

I don't trophy hunt. I don't have the attitude or experience to answer your question. I don't enjoy killing things so have no idea.