Garner Incident-if you can say "I can't breathe," guess what you can breathe

[Thief]

Because...?

Race is more than a skin color.
It is every notion and reflex that drives every gesture of the hand.

I have lived in a house with a different race in charge.
It ended up bad.

I have lived in the housing projects.
In that place, people pump a fist in your eye socket....just to say hello....
what the hell are you doing in my street?

The city torn the place down.

I had moved to another city....with a carbon copy housing project.
Any photo would have the SAME appearance.
This city tore that project down too.

It's not just color.
It's poverty, with drugs as the only escape.
It's the need for money, with no other means but to do the crime.
It's crime for the need of work and there won't be any soon enough.

It's that downward spiral when the only love you know, brings children into the same fate.

There is no cure.

When such life goes outside, the living is no better.
You were poor in your house.
You are more so in the street.

Sell cigarettes for more pocket change?
I'm surprised that works.
(must have been selling to underage kids)

But now the people want to put a color on it.
THAT will make the situation far worse.

Maybe someone could do some stats for poverty?
You'd be surprised who's on bottom.

 

[Thief]

Oh..btw....during all of this 'disturbance'.....

There's been a drive by shooting in my fair city.
So far the details are withheld.
No one wants a riot.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Race is more than a skin color.
It is every notion and reflex that drives every gesture of the hand.

I have lived in a house with a different race in charge.
It ended up bad.

I have lived in the housing projects.
In that place, people pump a fist in your eye socket....just to say hello....
what the hell are you doing in my street?

The city torn the place down.

I had moved to another city....with a carbon copy housing project.
Any photo would have the SAME appearance.
This city tore that project down too.

It's not just color.
It's poverty, with drugs as the only escape.
It's the need for money, with no other means but to do the crime.
It's crime for the need of work and there won't be any soon enough.

It's that downward spiral when the only love you know, brings children into the same fate.

There is no cure.

When such life goes outside, the living is no better.
You were poor in your house.
You are more so in the street.

Sell cigarettes for more pocket change?
I'm surprised that works.
(must have been selling to underage kids)

But now the people want to put a color on it.
THAT will make the situation far worse.

Maybe someone could do some stats for poverty?
You'd be surprised who's on bottom.

Skin color is one thing, but not the only thing. Class is one thing, but not the only thing. Family structure is one thing, but not the only thing.

It's why in feminist circles, we call this phenonemon "intersectionality." It's because sex, gender identity, skin color, orientation, age, ability, education level, etc. do not operate independently of each other when it comes to socio-economic advantages and disadvantages.

I've started blogging on the similar underpinnings of white flight with the last half century of flight from industrial/agricultural centers of the country, and that the families (mostly white) who live in these areas are experiencing a degree of what black families have been experiencing for a long time. The kind of disenfranchisement and drug culture as well as a lack of resources for food, education, and a severe shortage in the labor market.

Suddenly, epithets have been seeping into the culture and slang. "Meth-head White Trailer Trash" is one example of an epithet used in a de-humanizing manner toward margnialized people.

 

[Thief]

It's not the list you posted.

It's that cycle of gesture.
Daddy was a rolling stone.....and all he left us was a (loan) (lone).

People turn away from each other for so many reflexes.......not reasons.
A gesture, a catch phrase, the cut of your pants.....

Your next step up, is held by someone whose judgment on sight and sound is far too complex to forecast.
Even if you are exceptional in skill and trade....the next suck up might do better.

It's all a crap shoot.
And the opportunities for the win are becoming fewer by the hour.

Frustration then runs high.
And when the cops show up and tell you ......you're under arrest......

oooops

 

[Skwim]

I think all of those who said, "If you can say 'I can't breath' then you are breathing," are right on the money. Ya gotta be able to exchange air---breath---in order to talk. What I believe Garner may have been trying to convey was the fact that he was having difficulty breathing.
From Nowhere Man's link in post 5:

"The cause of Garner's death was "compression of neck (choke hold), compression of chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police," said Julie Bolcer, a spokeswoman for the medical examiner's office. The death was ruled a homicide.
Acute and chronic bronchial asthma, obesity and hypertensive cardiovascular disease were listed as contributing conditions in a controversial death that sparked anti-police demonstrations and calls for a federal investigation."​

The contributing factors to Garner's death then, were

1) compression of neck
2) compression of chest
3) prone positioning during physical restraint
4) acute and chronic bronchial asthma
5) obesity
6) hypertensive cardiovascular disease
​

So, there was much more going on than the choke hold, the elimination of any of which may have prevented his death. Moreover, in regard to the medical examiner's finding of " compression of neck," this need not have resulted in constricting the airway to the point of cutting of Garner's air supply, which doesn't seem to be the case anyway: he was able to talk.

I think what CMike said in post 1:

"Well, guess what? If you can say repeatedly "I can't breathe", you can breathe.

He died mainly because of his health conditions; asthma, heart issues, etc.

I think the moral of the story is that if you have health problems, don't resist arrest."
​

pretty well sums the situation. There were a host of other factors that contributed to Garner's death, so to single out one, the choke hold, is erroneous. Because of Garner's poor health condition he pretty much brought on his own demise by compelling the police to use physical restraint.

 

[SkepticThinker]

These are my thoughts after watching the video.

Garner resisted arrest. If you resist arrest you aren't going to be treated gently.

The headlock/chockehold or whatever it was didn't stop Garner from breathing.

How do we know this? Because during the hold Garner kept saying "I can't breathe, I can't breathe".

Well, guess what? If you can say repeatedly "I can't breathe", you can breathe.

He died mainly because of his health conditions; asthma, heart issues, etc.

I think the moral of the story is that if you have health problems, don't resist arrest.

Let the flames begin.

Well it looks like he couldn't actually breathe because he's dead now.

 

[Skwim]

Well it looks like he couldn't actually breathe because he's dead now.

And nothing else can kill a person?

 

[SkepticThinker]

And nothing else can kill a person?

Did I say anything like that?

We know what killed this guy. So it looks like he actually couldn't breathe.

Without getting into detail ... I have actually been choked before. It is possible to speak while it is happening, though it's difficult.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I have asthma. I also remember back before Paul Bernardo was apprehended, some of my friends joked that the sketches in the paper of the Scarborough Rapist kinda looked like me.

Would the police have been justified in killing me?

 

[Storm]

Hint back at you.....the choke was released and the guy continued speaking.

Crush windpipe and the loose lip won't work.

Hey!...get a friend to forearm your throat for ya!
Be sure to arrange a tapout maneuver first!
If he really goes for it....you won't say you can't breathe ....eleven times.

You're ignoring the inconvenient part where he dies. You go right on telling yourself it's the medical specialists who examined his corpse to determine cause of death that are ignorant blowhards if that's what you need to do. Just don't expect reasonable people to take you seriously.

Bye now.

 

[ChristineES]

I am late on this one. I've read some of the posts but not all of them, so bear me if I repeat what someone else may have said.

Without bringing race into it, I can say that the police were wrong to hold onto this guy for a misdemeanor. The ONLY people who need to held down are those are dangerous, and everything points to the fact that this man was not dangerous.
Also, I keep getting causes of death from the various news agencies. One said he was choked to death, another says he had a heart attack right after the fact, and more. How are we supposed to truly know which killed him? I skimmed through the coroner's report and not being a doctor(physician)... well, you get the point.

 

[McBell]

The thing is, we NEED to talk about it. When it's said that "it has nothing to do with race", it's unhelpful at best and insulting at worst.

When this thread was started it had nothing to do with race...

yes the racial aspect needs to be discussed.
however, not every thing is about race.


Reason for edit: fixed quote box

 

[metis]

The coroners report has it being death by strangulation and that it was a homicide: After the incident, city medical examiners concluded that Garner was killed by neck compression from the apparent chokehold, along with "the compression of his chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police". Contributing factors included bronchial asthma, heart disease, obesity, and hypertensive cardiovascular disease. -- Death of Eric Garner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Revoltingest]

I have asthma. I also remember back before Paul Bernardo was apprehended, some of my friends joked that the sketches in the paper of the Scarborough Rapist kinda looked like me.

Just say, "Wait! I'm an engineer!".
They'll see their error, apologize, & perhaps even offer you a donut.
Would the police have been justified in killing me?

 

[ChristineES]

The coroners report has it being death by strangulation and that it was a homicide: After the incident, city medical examiners concluded that Garner was killed by neck compression from the apparent chokehold, along with "the compression of his chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police". Contributing factors included bronchial asthma, heart disease, obesity, and hypertensive cardiovascular disease. -- Death of Eric Garner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thank you.

 

[Skwim]

Did I say anything like that?

We know what killed this guy. So it looks like he actually couldn't breathe.

You implied that the ONLY reason he died was because he couldn't breathe. Hypertensive cardiovascular disease can cause heart failure . . . . and death, particularly under stressful conditions. .

Without getting into detail ... I have actually been choked before. It is possible to speak while it is happening, though it's difficult.

Yup, but I have no doubt that you weren't in a position where you could have repeatedly said "I can't breathe."

 

[Skwim]

Without bringing race into it, I can say that the police were wrong to hold onto this guy for a misdemeanor. The ONLY people who need to held down are those are dangerous, and everything points to the fact that this man was not dangerous.

As I understand the situation

"He was a nuisance to shop owners who complained about him selling untaxed cigarettes on the street. When police came to arrest him, he resisted.
source
​

You're implying that when someone resists arrest the police should essentially walk away. Want to resist arrest then be prepared for the consequences. That's the way law enforcement in the USA works

 

[ChristineES]

As I understand the situation

"He was a nuisance to shop owners who complained about him selling untaxed cigarettes on the street. When police came to arrest him, he resisted.
source
​

You're implying that when someone resists arrest the police should essentially walk away. Want to resist arrest then be prepared for the consequences. That's the way law enforcement in the USA works

I am not implying that at all. The police went too far. They could have restrained him, if they had to, without choking him.

 

[Skwim]

I have asthma. I also remember back before Paul Bernardo was apprehended, some of my friends joked that the sketches in the paper of the Scarborough Rapist kinda looked like me.

Would the police have been justified in killing me?

Are you really implying that the police deliberately killed Garner?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Are you really implying that the police deliberately killed Garner?

Did I use the word "deliberately" in my post?