Garner Incident-if you can say "I can't breathe," guess what you can breathe

[CMike]

Arent all cops in the US equipped with tasers?

Which case are you talking about?

In Brown, the officer had mace not a taser, but since he was sitting in the care he couldn't get to it.

Garner could have died from a taser too.

 

[freethinker44]

That's why he is dead.

No, he's dead because the responding cops were incompetent.

 

[Revoltingest]

Which is a good thought too. That alone makes a person struggle harder and the policemen tightening his arm all the more until the oxygen stopped coming in altogether. These techniques are hideously barbaric imo in light of effective subduing equipment like tazers and such. Im sure adrenaline played a key role as well for both policemen and perp.

The underlined portion would be guaranteed escalation of the conflict.

Garner could have died from a taser too.

Given a choice, I'd much rather be tazed than have my windpipe crushed.....it's a less pain & less likelihood of death thing. And it would be easier on the cops too cuz tazing is legal.

 

[Bunyip]

These are my thoughts after watching the video.

Garner resisted arrest. If you resist arrest you aren't going to be treated gently.

The headlock/chockehold or whatever it was didn't stop Garner from breathing.

How do we know this? Because during the hold Garner kept saying "I can't breathe, I can't breathe".

Well, guess what? If you can say repeatedly "I can't breathe", you can breathe.

He died mainly because of his health conditions; asthma, heart issues, etc.

I think the moral of the story is that if you have health problems, don't resist arrest.

Let the flames begin.

Wow! Sheesh dude, you are a mile to the right of Ghengis Khan.
Yeah, you can actually squeak out a few words when you can not breath. Try it.

 

[Storm]

If you think that I think there's only one problem then you haven't read or understood a single word I've said.

No, we understand. You're just saying the wrong things.

 

[Storm]

That's because he wasn't brandishing.

Yes,in fact he was. Do you even know the incident I'm talking about?

Tamir Rice isn't dead because people thought his BB Gun was real - the actual 911 calls disprove that, as mentioned upthread. He's dead because some thugs in blue used him for target practice instead of so much as yelling at him to drop his toy.

 

[Storm]

If you think that I believe that then you've misunderstood or failed to read any of my previous posts.

No, you've entirely failed to communicate that you understand that at all.

That's exactly what I've been saying, if we want police to stop killing black people we have to address militarization. As long as police are at war with American citizens black people, and people of any race, will continue to be murdered in the streets unjustly. Racism merely compounds the issue of militarization.

That's not what Penguin was saying. He's saying you've continually dismissed racism as being worth addressing at all. Like you just did.

Racism is a problem outside the issue of police brutality. That's all I meant about saying it's the larger problem - which I actually specified already.

So, if you agree that BOTH problems need addressing, then stop arguing. If you don't, stop saying you're being misunderstood/ ignored. Either way, you're the one muddying the waters.

 

[freethinker44]

No, we understand. You're just saying the wrong things.

If you think ridding the police force of racism is going to stop them from killing black people, you are sadly mistaken. Are we talking about racism here, or are we talking about killing black people, because like it or not, at their core, they are separate issues.

 

[Revoltingest]

Wow! Sheesh dude, you are a mile to the right of Ghengis Khan.
Yeah, you can actually squeak out a few words when you can not breath. Try it.

Mr Khan doesn't like this post.

 

[freethinker44]

No, you've entirely failed to communicate that you understand that at all.

So when I said "address race is indeed an important issue" or "racism compounds the issue", you took that as me saying we should dismiss racism because it isn't as important?

That's not what Penguin was saying. He's saying you've continually dismissed racism as being worth addressing at all. Like you just did.

Hey, remember that time I said racism is an important issue and repeated over and over again that it adds to the problem of militarization? Apparently not, eh?

Racism is a problem outside the issue of police brutality. That's all I meant about saying it's the larger problem - which I actually specified already.

In society overall, sure, it is the larger problem. But as it pertains to police killings of black people, it's not the larger issue. It just makes the larger issue worse.

 

[dgirl1986]

Which case are you talking about?

In Brown, the officer had mace not a taser, but since he was sitting in the care he couldn't get to it.

Garner could have died from a taser too.

I would assume that dying from use of a taser rather than excessive force wouldve made a huge difference though. I don't know if they maced the guy. The vid I saw had him with his hands up surrendering.

 

[CMike]

I would assume that dying from use of a taser rather than excessive force wouldve made a huge difference though. I don't know if they maced the guy. The vid I saw had him with his hands up surrendering.

Which case?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So when I said "address race is indeed an important issue" or "racism compounds the issue", you took that as me saying we should dismiss racism because it isn't as important?

No, that came from these parts. You know: the ones where you dismiss racism and say some variation on that it's "not the problem":

Racism isn't the problem

Addressing their race is indeed an important issue, but a separate issue, and one that isn't going to solve the problem of police killing Americans.

If you see that and think that the problem here is racism, you're doing it wrong.

The larger problem isn't racism

 

[CMike]

Yes,in fact he was. Do you even know the incident I'm talking about?

Tamir Rice isn't dead because people thought his BB Gun was real - the actual 911 calls disprove that, as mentioned upthread. He's dead because some thugs in blue used him for target practice instead of so much as yelling at him to drop his toy.

No he died because he was pointing a gun at people whom thought it was a real gun. Even more to the point the police thought it was a real gun.

 

[CMike]

The underlined portion would be guaranteed escalation of the conflict.


Given a choice, I'd much rather be tazed than have my windpipe crushed.....it's a less pain & less likelihood of death thing. And it would be easier on the cops too cuz tazing is legal.

True, but the windpipe wasn't crushed.

 

[Storm]

If you think ridding the police force of racism is going to stop them from killing black people, you are sadly mistaken. Are we talking about racism here, or are we talking about killing black people, because like it or not, at their core, they are separate issues.

You can stop complaining about people misunderstanding you any time now. Go actually read my posts all the way through, and stop burning your idiotic strawman.

 

[Storm]

No he died because he was pointing a gun at people whom thought it was a real gun. Even more to the point the police thought it was a real gun.

Doesn't matter. Cops are supposed to uphold the law, not roam around executing anyone who THEY say gives them an excuse. And I am done with you.

Anyone who tries to justify the murder of a 12 year old child is not worth the pixels. How nice of the ignore feature to remove them.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No he died because he was pointing a gun at people whom thought it was a real gun. Even more to the point the police thought it was a real gun.

He wasn't pointing the gun at anyone when the police drove up and shot him:

Tamir Rice: video shows boy, 12, shot 'seconds' after police confronted child | US news | The Guardian

 

[McBell]

He wasn't pointing the gun at anyone when the police drove up and shot him:

Tamir Rice: video shows boy, 12, shot 'seconds' after police confronted child | US news | The Guardian

Thus the reason I believe the police seriously mishandled the situation.

What I find aggravating is there are those who refuse to acknowledge the reason(s) the police showed up in the first place.

Yet those same people make completely worthless and unproductive comments like:

" Cops are supposed to uphold the law, not roam around executing anyone who THEY say gives them an excuse."​

and act as though they have solved the whole issue if everyone would just agree with them.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Thus the reason I believe the police seriously mishandled the situation.

What I find aggravating is there are those who refuse to acknowledge the reason(s) the police showed up in the first place.

Yet those same people make completely worthless and unproductive comments like:

" Cops are supposed to uphold the law, not roam around executing anyone who THEY say gives them an excuse."​

and act as though they have solved the whole issue if everyone would just agree with them.

I'm not interested in giving simplistic answers. I do think, though, that it needs to be recognized that a lot of the incidents that police deal with involve people who are mentally disturbed. Some are diagnosed with psychiatric conditions (such as this recent victim of a police shooting in Vancouver) and some are just at very low points in their lives.

I don't know what motivated Tamir Rice to wave an airsoft gun at people in a park, but I don't think it's unreasonable for police to approach him with the mindset of helping someone in distress, not with the mindset of stopping a criminal. Of course they need to keep the public and themselves safe, but that can be accomplished by making sure that bystanders are clear (which they seemed to be already) and not putting themselves in a risky situation.

It seems to me like better training in de-escalation techniques and mental health issues for police officers would help prevent a lot of these issues... though I think a lot of it comes down to the need for a change in the systemic mindset of police forces. One of the first steps in a culture shift, IMO, would be to start doing a better job of tracking police shootings and making the minimization of these shootings a performance measure that police forces and their leaders are accountable for, almost like their budgets.