Garner Incident-if you can say "I can't breathe," guess what you can breathe

[McBell]

Whatever, Mestemia. I have no intention of humoring your dishonesty further. Don't bother responding, you're on ignore just as soon as I hit post.

Sad that you can dish it out with the best of them, but are so unable to take what you dish out.

 

[McBell]

Hmmm. Mestemia called me a poverty pimp,

Another bold faced lie.
And you whine about my alleged dishonesty?

 

[Storm]

Right, but getting people to value black lives as much as white lives isn't going to stop innocent black people from being killed by police,

Not by itself, no. But getting people to value black lives can blow away the smoke screen of "he deserved it." Once that's done, we have a chance at institutuing real accountability for police. Maybe eventually, people who murder unarmed teenagers in front of numerous witnesses will actually face jail time despite wearing a blue uniform at the time.

Step by step, dude. The fact that there's not a magic cureall doesn't mean the work isn't worth doing.

Racism isn't the problem, racism compounds the problem.

Not exactly. Racism is a larger problem (referring to scope, not severity - don't want to get into that one) which is being exploited to obscure the more specific problem of police brutality. They're both problems, and the dynamic is crucial to the solution.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

He was talking the entire time.

And? Do you think this mean that the technique wasn't dangerous, or that Garner wasn't in respiratory distress?

If the police were trying to restrain you, where would the line be then? How violent could the police get with you before you wouldn't think they had behaved properly?

 

[freethinker44]

Not exactly. Racism is a larger problem

That depends on perspective. Whether you believe the larger problem is that police are killing people or that police are killing more black people than white. To me, the problem with the Tamir Rice or Eric Garner case isn't that they were killed and were black, it's that they were killed. Addressing their race is indeed an important issue, but a separate issue, and one that isn't going to solve the problem of police killing Americans.

 

[Storm]

That depends on perspective. Whether you believe the larger problem is that police are killing people or that police are killing more black people than white.

No, actually. Depending on whether you realize that "racism" entails many, many more issues than police killings, or prefer to be completely myopic.

To me, the problem with the Tamir Rice or Eric Garner case isn't that they were killed and were black, it's that they were killed.

Yes, I've explained that several times. Please go pick one of those posts and stop pretending I haven't.

Addressing their race is indeed an important issue, but a separate issue, and one that isn't going to solve the problem of police killing Americans.

It would really help if you would refrain from responding until you've actually read my arguments. They are not separate problems. I explained why. If you disagree, fine, but you cannot rebut my point simply by pretending I didn't make it.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That depends on perspective. Whether you believe the larger problem is that police are killing people or that police are killing more black people than white. To me, the problem with the Tamir Rice or Eric Garner case isn't that they were killed and were black, it's that they were killed. Addressing their race is indeed an important issue, but a separate issue, and one that isn't going to solve the problem of police killing Americans.

So... you think that the deaths of these people are important, but you don't want a full exploration of the potential factors in why they died?

 

[freethinker44]

No, actually. Depending on whether you realize that "racism" entails many, many more issues than police killings, or prefer to be completely myopic.


Yes, I've explained that several times. Please go pick one of those posts and stop pretending I haven't.


It would really help if you would refrain from responding until you've actually read my arguments. They are not separate problems. I explained why. If you disagree, fine, but you cannot rebut my point simply by pretending I didn't make it.

If you see something like this:

or this:

or this:

If you see that and think that the problem here is racism, you're doing it wrong.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If you see that and think that the problem here is racism, you're doing it wrong.

If you think there's only one problem, then you're REALLY doing it wrong.

 

[freethinker44]

If you think there's only one problem, then you're REALLY doing it wrong.

If you think that I think there's only one problem then you haven't read or understood a single word I've said.

 

[dgirl1986]

The coroners report should settle the case here. Cause of death.....

Police choke hold killed NY man, medical examiner says - CNN.com

I thought this was all caught on video as well.

FYI you cant breathe is your brain urging you to find a position of breathing ASAP because you are deprived of the right amount of air to be able to keep breathing. Just a thought.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If you think that I think there's only one problem then you haven't read or understood a single word I've said.

Last time I checked, the word "the" (as in "the problem") denotes the singular.

 

[freethinker44]

Last time I checked, the word "the" (as in "the problem") denotes the singular.

Oh, that's because those pictures I shared were of cops amassing a small army and terrorizing a community for a month for the Eric Frein manhunt. No racism at all, just cops waging war against Americans. The larger problem isn't racism, it's militarization. If we managed to completely remove racism from the equation, black people would still be killed by the police.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I thought this was all caught on video as well.

FYI you cant breathe is your brain urging you to find a position of breathing ASAP because you are deprived of the right amount of air to be able to keep breathing. Just a thought.

Which is a good thought too. That alone makes a person struggle harder and the policemen tightening his arm all the more until the oxygen stopped coming in altogether. These techniques are hideously barbaric imo in light of effective subduing equipment like tazers and such. Im sure adrenaline played a key role as well for both policemen and perp.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Oh, that's because those pictures I shared were of cops amassing a small army and terrorizing a community for a month for the Eric Frein manhunt. No racism at all, just cops waging war against Americans. The larger problem isn't racism, it's militarization. If we managed to completely remove racism from the equation, black people would still be killed by the police.

It's not a competition. The thing to do is work on both issues, not to dismiss racism as something worth working on because you don't think it's the biggest issue.

And in any case, police racism and an "armed camp" mentality among police are both examples of the same problem: a systemic lack of respect for the citizenry among the police and - I'd say - the justice system as a whole. If that was there, then a whole host of problems, from police racism to overcrowded prisons due to heavy-handed sentences and "three strikes" laws, all get resolved.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Which is a good thought too. That alone makes a person struggle harder and the policemen tightening his arm all the more until the oxygen stopped coming in altogether. These techniques are hideously barbaric imo in light of effective subduing equipment like tazers and such. Im sure adrenaline played a key role as well for both policemen and perp.

Tasers have their issues, too:

Report slams RCMP in airport Taser death - British Columbia - CBC News

IMO, the solution starts with better conflict resolution and de-esclalation techniques for police officers. The lethality of police weapons becomes a moot point if the officer can resolve the situation without it becoming violent at all.

 

[dgirl1986]

Which is a good thought too. That alone makes a person struggle harder and the policemen tightening his arm all the more until the oxygen stopped coming in altogether. These techniques are hideously barbaric imo in light of effective subduing equipment like tazers and such. Im sure adrenaline played a key role as well for both policemen and perp.

Arent all cops in the US equipped with tasers?

 

[CMike]

I'm going to keep reading your posts in this thread to see what true intellect looks like.

*picks up popcorn*

I think that's a good idea. It may help you.

 

[freethinker44]

It's not a competition. The thing to do is work on both issues, not to dismiss racism as something worth working on because you don't think it's the biggest issue.

If you think that I believe that then you've misunderstood or failed to read any of my previous posts.

And in any case, police racism and an "armed camp" mentality among police are both examples of the same problem: a systemic lack of respect for the citizenry among the police and - I'd say - the justice system as a whole. If that was there, then a whole host of problems, from police racism to overcrowded prisons due to heavy-handed sentences and "three strikes" laws, all get resolved.

That's exactly what I've been saying, if we want police to stop killing black people we have to address militarization. As long as police are at war with American citizens black people, and people of any race, will continue to be murdered in the streets unjustly. Racism merely compounds the issue of militarization.

 

[CMike]

Take your own advice.

With everything you said firmly in mind:

A white "open carry activist" brrandishing a REAL, LOADED gun at a playground spurred a flood of panicked parents calling 911. The police let him go, withthe excuse thatit's an open carry state, despite the fact that he was brandishing the gun at children. You see the same reaction when these idiots take their loaded AKs and whatever else makes them feel powerful and brave to shopping malls, coffee shops, and parades.

And yet, when a 12 year old black boy played with a TOY gun in a park, he was shot dead without so much as a warning.

It's not the laws, it's that the cops know damned well that the law doesn't matter if they killp black people.

It's about race.

That's because he wasn't brandishing.

Carrying it is not brandishing.

Using it in a threatening manner is brandishing.

The people and police that the 12 year old pointed the gun at didn't know fake. That's why he is dead.