Gaudiya Vaishnavism queries and discussion thread.

[Terese]

namaskaram prabhu ji's



Jai Jai yes was GovindDev ji in Jaipur , ...I want to go there one day to see Sri GivindDev and Sri Radhika , ...

Gopal ji decided to day to give his Darshan , ....

I have not finished painting him yet , he says he wants his Bangles painting , I have to go to buy some more paints and a new fine paint brush as he is only small , then I must make him a proper Churidar it is still cold here , ...

Hmmmm , ... now I am thinking that Chandan should be same colour as his Butter ball but didnt have the right colours in matt paint , ...Chandan canot be shiney he wont like that , ...

he is very fussy , ..I think he is just enjoying the attention , ...please see he has been in the Crowns box and taken the largest crown he can fit on his head , ...he is now waiting for me to find him a place on the Shrine , ..
But I think I can hear him saying he wants a Jhulan , ....
​

What's a jhulan?

 

[निताइ dasa]

What's a jhulan?

Nitaibol Tereseji. Jhulan is just the Hindi word for "swing". Our Syamasundara loves swinging in a cradle as a child, and so the devotees sometimes dress Him up and put Him on a cradle for Jhulan or cradle pastime. Sometimes in Radha Kund the gopis also swing Radha and Krsna in beautiful swings made of flowers and the divine couple are also ornamented with beautiful flowers.

 

[Aupmanyav]

 

[ratikala]

Namaskaram Terese j

What's a jhulan?

here is very nice little traditional Jhulan , .... on Krsna's apperance day he is bathed then dressed in fresh clothing and brought out into the temple and placed in the Jhulan where visitirs can come and swing him , ..offer him presents and Fruit and sing to him , ....

 

[निताइ dasa]

Sharing another beautiful Bhajan (again this also one of my favorites). Used to sing it all the time last year. This time it is sung by Srila Bhaktirakshaka Sridhara Maharaj, who was a very exalted disciple of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati. It is sung in the traditional Bengali Raga which was the melody sung at the time of Narottama Das Thakura (an associate of Lord Gauranga Mahaprabhu), so this tune is very very old.

kabe gaura-vane, suradhunī-taṭe,
`hā rādhe hā kṛṣṇa' bole'
kāńdiyā beḍā'bo, deho-sukha chāḍi',
nānā latā-taru-tale

When, oh when will I wander here and there, under the shade of the trees and creepers along the banks of the Ganga in Navadvipa? I will cry out "Oh Radhe! Oh Krsna!", and I will completely forget about all the so-called pleasures of this material body.

śwa-paca-gṛhete, māgiyā khāibo,
pibo saraswatī-jala
puline puline, gaḍā-gaḍi dibo,
kori' kṛṣṇa-kolāhala

When will I be able to live so simply by begging some food from the homes of the untouchables who live here and there? I will drink the water of the Sarasvati, and in ecstasy I will roll to and fro on the banks of the river, raising a loud uproar of "Krsna! Krsna!"


dhāma-bāsī jane, pranati koriyā,
māgibo kṛpāra leśa
vaiṣṇava-caraṇa- reṇu gāya mākhi',
dhori' avadhūta-veśa

When will I bow down to all the inhabitants of the holy land of Navadvipa and receive even an atomic portion of their mercy? I will smear the dust of the Vaisnavas’ lotus feet all over my body, and I will wear the dress of a mad wandering mendicant.

gauḍa-braja-jane, bheda nā dekhibo,
hoibo baraja-bāsī
dhāmera swarūpa, sphuribe nayane,
hoibo rādhāra dāsī

When I factually observe that the transcendental lane of Navadvipa is not different from Sri Vraja-bhumi (Vrindavana), then I shall be transformed into a Vrajabasi also. Then I will see the true form of the transcendental realm opening up before my very eyes, and I will thus become one of the maidservants of Srimati Radharani.

 

[Yogi1054]

I am from Jodhpur, Rajasthan. Ram Dev ji (you know it, but others don't) is a folk deity/hero of Rajasthan and Gujarat, and the song "Khamma, khamma, khamma re, Ajmal ji ra kanwara" (I hail you, I hail you, I hail you, O son of Ajmal); Khamma, Khamma, Khamma re, Runichaji ra Dhaniya (I hail you, I hail you, I hail you, O husband of Runicha ji)) is very beautiful.

"Ram Dev is considered to be an incarnation of Vishnu. King Ajmal (Ajai Singh) married Queen Minaldevi, the daughter of Pamji Bhati of Chhahan Baru village. The childless king went to Dwaraka and pleaded with Krishna about his wish to have child like him. They had two sons, Viram dev and the younger Ram Dev. Ram Dev ji (1352 - 1385 AD) was born at 'Ramdeora' in Barmer district. Ram Dev ji was a Tanwar Rajput (Warrior Caste)." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramdev_Pir, with a little modification)

Also, there is a saying in Marwari (one of the Rajasthani dialects) that "every one who meets Ram Dev ji is crooked in some way or the other". Crooked not in the sense of evil, but incomplete, wanting, desirous, sorrowful, etc. And worshiping Ram Dev ji will remove the reason for it. There are many new songs, but not one old one from my childhood. The singer, a lady, used to live close to our house in Bikaner.

Ramdeora images: https://www.google.co.in/search?q=R...X&ved=0ahUKEwjR6oH7j5DLAhWLjo4KHdrdBoIQsAQIIw
Ram Dev ji Videos (suggest 1, 3, 5 etc.): https://www.google.co.in/search?q=k...KEwiB54q2kJDLAhVISY4KHcDHBt0Q_AUIBigB&dpr=1.1

Thankyou so much for posting this - my Hindi let me down but the song is beautiful - I would love to one day go and visit his temples! I know people will take a toy horse and offer it to him at his altar

Jai Ram Dev Pir!!!!!

 

[Terese]

I remember reading that Gaudiyas worship Siva as a devotee of Sri Krishna. Do you actually worship Siva? In archa form?

 

[निताइ dasa]

I remember reading that Gaudiyas worship Siva as a devotee of Sri Krishna. Do you actually worship Siva? In archa form?

Nitaibol, nice question. Yes Siva is the most known among Vaishnavs (Vaishnavam Yatha Shambhu). In the Dhamas (like Vrndavana, Radhakund, Navadwipa, Ekachakra), Shivji is worshiped in his deity form (as Kundeshwar, Patal Shiva, etc) but that deity is often located away from the deity of Sri Sri Radha Syamasundara. Generally the deity of Lord Shiva is not worshiped in the same location as Lord Narayana. Furthermore in the Gaudiya Shatras for diety worship there is really no mantras by which we generally worship Shivaji (I am not aware of any Bija mantra for Shivji, though his incarnation Adwaita Acharya is worshiped in deity form alongside the Panchtattva).

 

[Kirran]

I wonder, is Lord Siva ever worshipped as the lingam by Gaudiyas?

 

[Chakra]

I wonder, is Lord Siva ever worshipped as the lingam by Gaudiyas?

I've abhishekam in ISKCON temples during Shivaratri. Not sure why, since it is not part of any Vaishnava agama (as far as I know).

 

[Kirran]

I've abhishekam in ISKCON temples during Shivaratri. Not sure why, since it is not part of any Vaishnava agama (as far as I know).

Interesting, fantastic. It's interesting how a Vaishnava might see the lingam - can Siva be attributeless?

 

[Chakra]

Interesting, fantastic. It's interesting how a Vaishnava might see the lingam - can Siva be attributeless?

Well, could you define what you mean by attributeless? I'm assuming you mean the Advaitic nirguna attributeless, but I'm not sure.

 

[Kirran]

Well, could you define what you mean by attributeless? I'm assuming you mean the Advaitic nirguna attributeless, but I'm not sure.

Well, let's use the English term for clarity - I mean without attribute, rather than without bad attributes specifically but having good attributes.

Any deity could be said to be without bad attribute, including other forms of Siva, but the lingam is aniconic.

 

[निताइ dasa]

I wonder, is Lord Siva ever worshipped as the lingam by Gaudiyas?

Yes, in Ekachakra as Patal Shiva, in Radha Kund as Kundeshwar Mahadeva and in Vrindavan as Gopiswara Mahadeva. The three deities are below and do resemble the linga form:

Interesting, fantastic. It's interesting how a Vaishnava might see the lingam - can Siva be attributeless?

Well according to Brahma Samhita, the linga represents the masculine creative potency who combines with Maya to manifest the mundane world. The exact verse (10) from Brahma Samhita is below:

saktimän puruñaù so ’yaà
liìga-rüpé maheçvaraù
tasminn ävirabhül liìge
mahä-viñëur jagat-patiù

"The person embodying the material causal principle, viz., the great lord of this mundane world [Mahesvara] Sambhu, in the form of the male generating organ, is joined to his female consort the limited energy [Mäyä] as the efficient causal principle. The Lord of the world Mahä-Visnu is manifest in him by His subjective portion in the form of His glance"

 

[kalyan]

JAI Shree Hari

 

[Terese]

Why worship Siva? What's the point?

 

[Aupmanyav]

As much as worshiping Krishna or Vishnu. Why worship any?

 

[kalyan]

Why worship Siva? What's the point?

This is something related to gaudiyas, as far my understanding goes they actually worship Siva but while worshiping, do they visualize inner controller of Siva i.e nArayaNa or not is not clear to me.

Anya devatha (other devatha) worship is strictly prohibited(for our sake because they bestow with temporary results and for enjoying them you might have to be born again) in Vaishnava sampradaya....NONE of the acharyas in Ramanuja Lineage ever worshiped Siva and Yamunacharya swamy in Ramanuja lineage describes the abode of VishNu is so.......far, not reachable to Rudra and Brahma. There is a difference between respecting Siva and actually worshiping him

 

[निताइ dasa]

This is something related to gaudiyas, as far my understanding goes they actually worship Siva but while worshiping, do they visualize inner controller of Siva i.e nArayaNa or not is not clear to me.

Anya devatha (other devatha) worship is strictly prohibited(for our sake because they bestow with temporary results and for enjoying them you might have to be born again) in Vaishnava sampradaya....NONE of the acharyas in Ramanuja Lineage ever worshiped Siva and Yamunacharya swamy in Ramanuja lineage describes the abode of VishNu is so.......far, not reachable to Rudra and Brahma. There is a difference between respecting Siva and actually worshiping him

We worship Lord Shiva, however not as a form of Parabrahman. We worship in the form of a Vaishnav. Because for us, without worshiping the Vaishnavs worship of Sri Krsna is incomplete. This is similar to the worship of the previous acharyas etc. Furthermore in Gaudiya Siddhanta, Lord Shiva himself comes from Sadashiva who actually resides in Vaikuntha (see the commentary of Brahma Samhita). When we worship Lord Shiva we never ask for material benefits (I agree with Kalyanji worshiping demigods for material fruits is forbidden), but we ask Shiva to give us strength to continue Krsna Bhakti. That why Srila Vishwanath Cakravarti Thakura says in this shloka:

vrindavanavani-patejaya soma-soma-
maule sanandana-sanatana-naradedya
gopishvara vraja-vilasi-yuganghri-padme
prema prayaccha nirupadhi namo namas te

“O gatekeeper of Vrindavana! O Soma, all glories to you! O you whose forehead is decorated with the moon (soma), and who is worshiped by the sages headed by Sanandana, Sanatana, and Narada! O Gopishvara! Desiring that you bestow upon me limitless love for the lotus feet of Sri Sri Radha-Madhava, who perform joyous pastimes in Vraja-dhama, I offer my obeisances unto you again and again.” (Sri Sankalpa-kalpadruma, 103)

I would like to post a little bit from an Article written by someone who knows a bit more about this then me:

"As for the worship of Sri Shiva, it is permissible to worship him in the capacity of a devotee of the Lord. However, one must not whimsically begin to worship in a particular manner, but must certify that the worship he undertakes will be conducive to the particular kind of devotion the sadhaka aspires for. For instance, we do not worship the queens of Dvaraka, for their bhakti-bhava is different from that for which we aspire.

Hence we worship Sri Shiva in his descent as Advaita Acarya Prabhu, who is a joint avatara of Sri Sadashiva (the original form of Sambhu, a qualified amsa of Vishnu) and Mahavishnu. On account of Prabhu's absorption in Gaura-lila, and through Gaura-lila in Vraja-bhava, this form of worship is guaranteed to bring us to the farther shore of the ocean of bhakti.

We may also worship Gopisvara Mahadeva, the form of Sri Shiva who protects the Rasa-dance in a gopi-svarupa. The history of Gopisvara is very famous. He stands on the edge of Vamsi-vata, where Syamasundara plays the fifth note of His flute, alluring the Vraja-gopis from their homes to join Him in the circle of Rasa, and protects the crest-jewel of Vraja-pastimes.

Additionally Sri Mahadeva protects the holy dhama from all four directions, and we honor and worship him as the protector of the dhama. He presides in Vraja as Gopisvara in Vrindavan, Bhutesvara in Mathura, Nandisvara at Nandagrama, Kamesvara at Kamyavana, Cakalesvara at Govardhan and Kundesvara at Radha Kund. As such, he is worthy of our respect and worship. Any Vaishnava who desires the mercy of the holy dhama must not neglect to pay homage to Sri Shiva who protects the dhama.

However, such worship is often not a daily duty, but rather an occasional duty. By occasional I mean that it is not incorporated into the daily routine of sadhana, but rather whenever a murti of Sri Mahadeva is met, we pay homage to him."

 

[Terese]

Another Question: What scriptures do Gaudiyas find literal? Why are they considered so?