Gay vs God... 2 questions

[Frank Merton]

if the mind is preoccupied with the body then it has no time to be preoccupied with the spirit, therefore all preoccupations with the world are sinful, and destructive to the soul

You sound like an old person, contrary to your picture. I have found that as I get older being sexually saintly gets easier and easier -- partly of course because desires mature, but mainly because offers come less often.

 

[Beta]

O.K., so what God wants of each and every person is to reproduce? Jesus, for example, failed to reproduce, so violated God's plan?

Are you concerned that if we let gay people be gay, everyone will want to be gay? Because, apparently, being gay is so obviously superior in every way that everyone would choose it if they had the chance?

As stated several times human reproduction is not all there is to life.
Jesus came for quite a different purpose that no ordinary human could fulfill. He completely obeyed his Father in everything asked of him Heb.5v8 and therefore did not sin.
No I'm not concerned that gay's are taking over but that they ' unwittingly deny themselves ' an eternal existence which is God's plan for each of us. They too deserve to know how they can be saved from extinction. But the final choice is ours whether gay or not. :yes:
(there is really no more to be said unless they want to know more)

 

[Beta]

But celibacy is strictly prohibited, correct?

Don't think that's quite true -
there are exceptions to every rule .

 

[Beta]

Does God help with those things? It appears to me that doctors are more effective than God in treating physical disabilities.

Certainly Doctors do a wonderful job but there are things only God can fix which are spiritual and eternal

 

[Gaura Priya]

i think homosexuality -- and heterosexuality for that matter -- are seen as an evil, or a nuesance, in the spiritual world because they are concerned with matters of the flesh, they are earth-bound, they are centered around attraction, desire, and sex, they are centered around animalistic instincts, as well as self-gratifification and pleasure

if the mind is preoccupied with the body then it has no time to be preoccupied with the spirit, therefore all preoccupations with the world are sinful, and destructive to the soul

but some people are just fine limiting their spirit merely to the physical and temporal, and they have the free will to do so

I agree.. that sexual intercourse, no matter what, is a material thing and is ultimately materially binding to the mortal world.

However, I do not see it as completely a bad thing. If a person can not become completely spiritual through celibacy, they may still be spiritual within a family context. However, the sex act itself to me has never been a holy or sacred thing. To me, sexual intercourse is quite animalistic and beastial, and I personally can never reconcile sexual acts and spirituality in the same boat.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

To me Falcon I take yet another rather tantric view on sex like I do on meat-eating. Yes, Tantra influences a good deal of my thought. I think that sex is natural, but fortunately it's also natural not to think about sex and it's results because it's such a base instinct. It's so easy to do it thoughtlessly.

According to tantric thought this would not bind a person to the material world, because one would then not have an attachment to the results of sex.

 

[Beta]

So you actually have no idea what the purpose of this forum is? May I suggest checking the mission statement? Just a suggestion.

Forgive me for thinking religion has to do with God. It does in my book ! correct me if I'm wrong and we stop discussion.

 

[Gaura Priya]

Forgive me for thinking religion has to do with God. It does in my book ! correct me if I'm wrong and we stop discussion.

Not all religions are God-focused.

Unitarian Universalism, my religious affiliation, is absolutely not God-centred, and there are many other world traditions that are also of that calibre.

 

[waitasec]

i think homosexuality -- and heterosexuality for that matter -- are seen as an evil, or a nuesance, in the spiritual world because they are concerned with matters of the flesh, they are earth-bound, they are centered around attraction, desire, and sex, they are centered around animalistic instincts, as well as self-gratifification and pleasure

if the mind is preoccupied with the body then it has no time to be preoccupied with the spirit, therefore all preoccupations with the world are sinful, and destructive to the soul

but some people are just fine limiting their spirit merely to the physical and temporal, and they have the free will to do so

don't you know that anything done in excess isn't healthy. it seems you are talking about living in extremes...

our bodies are matters of the flesh. if we ignore our bodies we get sick.
you do realize that we are sexual beings and if we suppress our natural inclinations we will get sick one way or another...
stress is a really big factor of why our society relies on meds.

 

[waitasec]

It destroys when willfully not replenishing something that would otherwise not exist.
Humans are foundationally necessary for this particular plan God is working on. We can be part of it or not - our choice. Some will some won't , we are not compelled. So please feel free to do your own thing.
As a matter of fact 'love' is important in our life but can be destructive when selfishly mis-applied.

you don't know very much about anatomy..
you know those little guys are really potent for a short time...every time a guy masturbates/has sex, new vibrant sperm replaces the old set. the longer the sperm stays the older and less potent the sperm is...and besides men constantly produce sperm while women have an X amount of eggs....

 

[Autodidact]

It destroys in the sense when something God establishes and man by his own will allows to disappear, not exist when we are told to replenish. I think it can be classed as not doing God's Will or deliberately (but perhaps not consciously) opposing him .That is sin 1Joh.3v4.

And God's will for us is to reproduce?

I do think 'love' is important and essential to human life but can also be destructive when mis-used.

Well, let's see what Jesus said about it:

1 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing. 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8 Love never fails.

Let's see what Jesus says about homosexuality.

[Oh, there's nothing here.]

Interesting. It's almost as though you're reading a different book.

 

[Autodidact]

As stated several times human reproduction is not all there is to life.

Apparently you believe that God thinks it's very important.

Jesus came for quite a different purpose that no ordinary human could fulfill. He completely obeyed his Father in everything asked of him Heb.5v8 and therefore did not sin.

Well, is failing to reproduce a sin or not?

No I'm not concerned that gay's are taking over but that they ' unwittingly deny themselves ' an eternal existence which is God's plan for each of us. They too deserve to know how they can be saved from extinction. But the final choice is ours whether gay or not. :yes:

Then why did you bring it up? If you're not worried about that, why raise it?

 

[Autodidact]

Don't think that's quite true -
there are exceptions to every rule .

So if I follow you, God's plan for humanity is to reproduce, but it's also fine not to. Is that right?

 

[Autodidact]

Certainly Doctors do a wonderful job but there are things only God can fix which are spiritual and eternal

Then why did you bring up physical disabilities? You're so confusing. People should turn to God for help with physical disabilities even though he doesn't. God wants us to reproduce, but doesn't care if we don't, as long as we don't enjoy having sex with other people of the same sex while we do it. Love doesn't matter, except that it does. You're just one big muddle of contradictions. If it were me, I'd take that as a hint there was something wrong with my outlook, but that's just me.

 

[painted wolf]

Why is God so obsessed with male dangley bits and gooey stuff?

wa:do

 

[Beta]

you don't know very much about anatomy..
you know those little guys are really potent for a short time...every time a guy masturbates/has sex, new vibrant sperm replaces the old set. the longer the sperm stays the older and less potent the sperm is...and besides men constantly produce sperm while women have an X amount of eggs....

I can't see any of this being influential on whether or not a person is willing and prepared to do the Will of God regardles of being male , female, gay or not.

 

[waitasec]

I can't see any of this being influential on whether or not a person is willing and prepared to do the Will of God regardles of being male , female, gay or not.

1st off, there is no will of god...
it is ultimately your will.

2nd you said...

It destroys when willfully not replenishing something that would otherwise not exist.

your argument is self defeating. the sex organ of a man needs to be constantly (i wouldn't say constantly really, but some guys would ) replenished in order for reproduction to be more successful...
just think about that for a moment...then think about 15 yr old boys who are so horny you'd think they'd go blind...
is that "willfully not replenishing something that would otherwise not exist"

think about how the sex organ of a female works...
a female doesn't necessarily need a man's sex organ in order for her to reach climax does she? and why can she climax more than once ?
is that "willfully not replenishing something that would otherwise not exist"?

another thing to think about, the clitoris gift to women can be lost if not taken advantage of...
if you don't use it you'll loose it....

so here we see that our bodies were made to be sexual...
and as i have said before...anything in excess is never healthy...
but one would wonder if we suppress our sexual desires...maybe there will come a point where a person cannot get enough of it.

as far as homosexuality is concerned...
if you were to understand that masturbation is a normal part of a sexual being homosexuality is no different....


that is why masturbation and homosexuality are frowned
because it is;
"willfully not replenishing something that would otherwise not exist"


"every sperm is sacred
every sperm is great
if a sperm is wasted
god gets quite irate. "

 

[asketikos]

don't you know that anything done in excess isn't healthy. it seems you are talking about living in extremes...

our bodies are matters of the flesh. if we ignore our bodies we get sick.
you do realize that we are sexual beings and if we suppress our natural inclinations we will get sick one way or another...
stress is a really big factor of why our society relies on meds.

yes done in excess everything unhealthy, except perhaps prayer

i don't think that if people remain celebite their whole life they are going to get sick,
there's absolutely no medical evidence for that

for people who are interested in living the inner life then sex is a hindrance to the discipline of the spirit, it lowers the spirit and the mind to the temperal and insignificant

yes we are humans, we are earthly, we share DNA with other lowly creatures
but the differance between us and animals is that we can rise above the instincts, the temperment, and the beastly search for instant gratification if we chose to do so
that is, in my opinion, the sign of spiritual growth, the closer calling towards a communion with God

 

[Autodidact]

Beta: Do you consider adopting children creative or destructive?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Why is God so obsessed with male dangley bits and gooey stuff?

Who isn't?