Geert Wilders not guilty

[Kathryn]

Nothing like keeping the conversation classy. Refer to those who speak against your thinking as pigs. That's just fricken spiffy. Nice work.

Don't leave out the classic phrase, "These people..."

Honestly, does he not see the irony of this conversation?

 

[Revoltingest]

Definition of sarchasm - The gulf separating those who get the irony & those who don't.

 

[YmirGF]

Don't leave out the classic phrase, "These people..."

Honestly, does he not see the irony of this conversation?

I'm still trying to wrap my head around what the Romani people issue has to do with Geert Wilders being found not guilty. Maybe it's like how those who are arguing against Stephen aren't really little piggies. :slap:

 

[sandandfoam]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around what the Romani people issue has to do with Geert Wilders being found not guilty. Maybe it's like how those who are arguing against Stephen aren't really little piggies. :slap:

I think it begins at post #28

 

[Father Heathen]

When or where did I ever suggest that these groups - or any group - should be targeted for ANY sort of punishment, based on their ethnicity? I find that very idea to be appalling and completely immoral - one of the very worst crimes against humanity that can be perpetrated.

Aww, they made a straw man with a little Hitler mustache. How adorable.

 

[Kathryn]

Differences between Hitler and me:

1. He's dead - I'm not.
2. He wore a small badger on his upper lip - I don't even have to get my upper lip waxed.
3. He invaded countries - I only visit them.
4. He hated Gypsies - I just hate child exploitation and stealing from the elderly (and from tourists, but that's not quite as bad as the other two).

 

[sandandfoam]

.
4. He hated Gypsies - I just hate child exploitation and stealing from the elderly (and from tourists, but that's not quite as bad as the other two).

Then that is what you should have said.
You began with Roma and travellers are "horrid people" and "for the most part, rank criminals who raise their children to be the same".
I am glad you have altered your position.

 

[Father Heathen]

Then that is what you should have said.
You began with Roma and travellers are "horrid people" and "for the most part, rank criminals who raise their children to be the same".
I am glad you have altered your position.

But people who abuse and exploit children are horrid people.

 

[Kathryn]

Then that is what you should have said.
You began with Roma and travellers are "horrid people" and "for the most part, rank criminals who raise their children to be the same".
I am glad you have altered your position.

I haven't altered my position - just clarified it. For those who seem determined to read into it.

For the average, reasonable person, this really shouldn't be necessary.

 

[Revoltingest]

Differences between Hitler and me:

1. He's dead - I'm not.
2. He wore a small badger on his upper lip - I don't even have to get my upper lip waxed.
3. He invaded countries - I only visit them.
4. He hated Gypsies - I just hate child exploitation and stealing from the elderly (and from tourists, but that's not quite as bad as the other two).

You reminded me of this song....
[youtube]T5vo7jLGOb8[/youtube]
YouTube - ‪Henry Kissinger Song by Eric Idle‬‏

Listen til you hear the part about how Kissinger has better legs than Hitler & bigger **** than Cher.

 

[Kathryn]

Hey, great song, Revoltingest. Speaking of kosher, or rather, not - how do you like my new signature?

 

[Revoltingest]

Hey, great song, Revoltingest. Speaking of kosher, or rather, not - how do you like my new signature?

Stellar!
I remember the commercial.

 

[Yerda]

Wow, that's really reading a lot into what I said. I think lots of people are rather horrid - but as I pointed out in an earlier post, I don't even think that JEFFREY DAHMER (about the most horrid person I can think of) should be treated as less of a human than you or me.

When or where did I ever suggest that these groups - or any group - should be targeted for ANY sort of punishment, based on their ethnicity? I find that very idea to be appalling and completely immoral - one of the very worst crimes against humanity that can be perpetrated.

When people want to justify the discrimination faced by the Roma and travelling communities, as raised by Stephen earlier, they employ exactly the same rhetoric as you did. They're thieves, and scum (and therefore deserve all they get). My mistake was projecting such motives onto your comments. I accept I've read something between the lines that wasn't there. It was my error and I apologise.

I don't believe it's fair (or right) to characterise the Roma people (and travellers) as horrid people, and rank criminals. I also don't believe that stereotyoping ethnic groups is just. But that's a matter of values perhaps.

 

[Kathryn]

Or perhaps it's a matter of personal experience.

We all stereotype - or profile - or use discretion - or assess situations. However you want to dress up the action, it's basically the same thing.

Some of us are just more blunt about it, I guess. I am sure that there are groups of people which you generally dislike - or, if you want to put it more diplomatically, I am sure there are groups of people whose actions, beliefs, practices, etc you dislike. Do you feel the need to make a disclaimer everytime you discuss them - "I mean, generally - I am sure there are exceptions, but generally speaking..."

 

[Yerda]

Or perhaps it's a matter of personal experience.

We all stereotype - or profile - or use discretion - or assess situations. However you want to dress up the action, it's basically the same thing.

Some of us are just more blunt about it, I guess. I am sure that there are groups of people which you generally dislike - or, if you want to put it more diplomatically, I am sure there are groups of people whose actions, beliefs, practices, etc you dislike. Do you feel the need to make a disclaimer everytime you discuss them - "I mean, generally - I am sure there are exceptions, but generally speaking..."

I'm sure we all form stereotypes. That doesn't make it right or fair. I find it easier to simply not make generalisations about ethnic groups.

 

[Kathryn]

I'm sure we all form stereotypes. That doesn't make it right or fair. I find it easier to simply not make generalisations about ethnic groups.

So when you're suddenly surrounded by a crowd of small, dark haired and dark eyed clamoring children in a crowded market place in Europe, you don't generalize that they're probably Roma children trying to pick your pocket?

 

[Yerda]

So when you're suddenly surrounded by a crowd of small, dark haired and dark eyed clamoring children in a crowded market place in Europe, you don't generalize that they're probably Roma children trying to pick your pocket?

Never happened to me.

Wouldn't that be the opposite of generalising though - Applying a percieved general property to individuals?

p.s. I would pity the kids picking my pockets, I dress worse than a beggar, and make less money.

 

[Kathryn]

I don't think it's the opposite of generalization - you'd be making a judgment call based on the information you've gathered.

 

[Father Heathen]

When people want to justify the discrimination faced by the Roma and travelling communities, as raised by Stephen earlier, they employ exactly the same rhetoric as you did. They're thieves, and scum (and therefore deserve all they get). My mistake was projecting such motives onto your comments. I accept I've read something between the lines that wasn't there. It was my error and I apologise.

I don't believe it's fair (or right) to characterise the Roma people (and travellers) as horrid people, and rank criminals. I also don't believe that stereotyoping ethnic groups is just. But that's a matter of values perhaps.

It was criticism of a culture (which is a collection of commonly shared practices, behaviors and attitudes), not of a race (which, again, which is something completely different).

 

[Revoltingest]

So we aren't supposed to criticize ethnic groups, eh? Where will that lead?
Next thing you know, people will be clamoring to make it illegal to criticize religions too.
I suppose people will be prosecuted for dissing Islam.