McBell
Unbound
That is apparently my mistake.
My apologies.
So back to the matter at hand:
Who is making the claim?
I mean, other than you?
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Gender reassignment/affirming surgery
- Thread starter Ignatius A
- Start date
My apologies.
So back to the matter at hand:
Who is making the claim?
I mean, other than you?
Ignatius A
Well-Known Member
Right. Claims don't have a "?" at the end.
Ignatius A
Well-Known Member
Very good. Theres hope for you.
I've told you already. Lia Thomas has claimed to be a woman hence his/her participation in a woman's swimming event.
Now answer my question, do you believe someone with a penis who believes, thinks.kr feels they are a woman, actually a woman? It's not a claim I want to know your thought on the matter.
McBell
Unbound
Is she claiming she is a really real woman?
If not, then you have not answered my question.
Again.
Now since you pointed out that you did not claim she made that claim I have to wonder why you would try throwing her name out again.
You are doing a right mighty fancy dance around my question:
Who is making the claim?
I mean, other than you.
You been dancing around my question for two pages and you want me to answer yours?
Seriously?
Ignatius A
Well-Known Member
Yes by competing in a woman's swimming event. Either Thomas is a woman and legitimately belongs there or Thomas is a man and was cheating.
Now answer my question if you have the nerve. I'm starting to wonder.
McBell
Unbound
So now you are in fact claiming she is claiming to be a really real man?
I mean, you did not flat out state it so I am making sure that the implication that you are is cleared up before hand this time.
You seem to be under the mistaken impression that you intimidate me.
Or perhaps it is that you can intimidate me.
Ignatius A
Well-Known Member
Do you believe someone with a penis who believes, thinks or feels they are a woman, actually a woman?
I couldn't care less what you are but you are intimidated. Answer the question
McBell
Unbound
You have not supported your claim
Are we back to square one again?
Or are you going to commit this time around?
Try and explain how they are not first. Good to know where your legs are.
Ignatius A
Well-Known Member
Im not making the claim they arent unless you cant tell me the # of the post where i made that claim. I want to know if you think someone with a penis who believes, thinks or feel like a woman is actually a woman?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
That is because you have not shown that you can have a proper discussion. I think that I have already explained this to you twice. How many times to you have to have the same thing explained to you before you understand/
Please cut out the disingenuous crap.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
When a person refuses to have a rational discussion based upon the evidence one can see that they do not care about the evidence.
It's why I gave up responding. I just don't have the patience for BS these days.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Lately I have not had the stamina to put up with nonsense either.
Of course a big part of the problem of dealing with transgenderism is that too many people just cannot be polite when their ancient and wrong beliefs are challenged. Though it costs them nothing to be polite to their fellow many they would rather say false things about them because they are different and that is threatening to them.
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
Rarely, and here's why: When a kid has gender dsyphoria (GD), its source is unknown. And kids with GD often have a host of other issues (comorbidities). So usually the therapist cannot accurately determine which small minority of GD kids will actually end up being trans. A few will, most will not.
In other words, having GD in no way means a kid is trans. In fact, only a small percentage of GD kids ultimately turn out to be trans.
So from a therapy perspective, social transitioning comes with a lot of psychological baggage that might well not be called for.
The WPATH Files — Environmental Progress
Leaked files from WPATH reveal widespread medical malpractice on children and vulnerable adults at global transgender healthcare authority World Professional Association of Transgender Health (WPATH) members demonstrate a lack of consideration for long-term patient outcomes despite being aware oenvironmentalprogress.org
To answer your remaining questions:
- We know that these drugs and surgeries are dangerous in themselves, AND that they commit the patient to a lifetime of medicalization.
- Defenders of the current GAC approach often claim that "GAC saves lives" by reducing suicidal thoughts and actual suicides. This is a powerful, emotional appeal, but the Cass report (and other studies), determined that there is no evidence to support this claim.
- GD is a mental condition, and it's not "stigmatizing" to say so. People have scores of different mental conditions.
- A basic premise of medicine is "first, do no harm".
So GAC is a dangerous approach to treating a mental condition and there is no good evidence that it works. That runs counter to the idea of "first, do no harm".
So you are arguing against GAD?
I think social transitioning is only dangerous because we are still in a society that is ordered around gender lines. The danger being how the rest of the world treats those who don't conform to what they are socially told about their identity.
Comorbidities very likely do play a part in it, which is why a holistic approach is important. Simultaneously, ignoring the gender aspect for the sake of the other mental health aspects doesn't exactly make sense. Fact is: Folks with gender identity non-conformities do exist and it is important to recognize that especially where this can lead to other things like alienation, anxiety, depression, etc.
The Cass report summary does not state that there is no evidence that GAD is helpful. If the full report does so, please quote it and refer to where it is in the report.
From the summary:
"There is no simple explanation for the increase in the numbers of predominantly young people and young adults who have a trans or gender diverse identity, but there is broad agreement that it is a result of a complex interplay between biological, psychological and social factors. This balance of factors will be different in each individual."
-This establishes there is something biological, psychological, and socially going on with some folks.
"An appraisal of international guidelines for care and treatment of children and young people with gender incongruence found that that no single guideline could be applied in its entirety to the NHS in England."
-This suggests that there is not a single guideline that can be established: In other words, it is not saying that GAC should be discontinued as a practice.
"Clinicians are unable to determine with any certainty which children and young people will go on to have an enduring trans identity."
-Meaning the longterm prognosis is difficult to judge, but also that enduring trans identities exist. Difficulty should not be construed as a reason to stop trying, only that caution and continued research is necessary.
"For most young people, a medical pathway will not be the best way to manage their gender-related distress. For those young people for whom a medical pathway is clinically indicated, it is not enough to provide this without also addressing wider mental health and/or psychosocially challenging problems.
Innovation is important if medicine is to move forward, but there must be a proportionate level of monitoring, oversight and regulation that does not stifle progress, while preventing creep of unproven approaches into clinical practice. Innovation must draw from and contribute to the evidence base."
-Meaning for some, a medical pathway may be necessary, and that innovation, rather than removal is necessary--with caution and further study.
Should use of drugs be reserved for physical conditions only? There are many psychological conditions treated with drugs, many of which have the potential for dangerous side effects.
Thank you for posting the link to the WPATH file leak article! It's very helpful.
The original report is a 200+ page document so I am unlikely to read the entire thing. I just don't have the time to dedicate that much time to that one source, but in good faith I will be clear about my critical analysis of the source. This will be in a separate post so I can dedicate more time to it. I will tag you.
Did you mean GAC? If you meant GAD, then can you clarify what that means?
Most kids with GD end up being gay. It seems clear to me that "socially transitioning" a confused kid who's really just gay would likely be damaging to that kid's psychological development, correct?
Again, the point here is that there is no crystal ball that allows doctors and therapists to know "this GD kid is just gay" but "that GD kid is trans", and MOST GD kids are not trans.
Bingo!
I'm all for talk therapy for kids with GD. Although I would caution against offering the idea to a confused kid that "they might be in the wrong body". Kids do not understand what sex and love and parenthood and infertility really mean. And kids are impressionable. I think it's wicked for trans activists to push the idea that young kids should be told that they might be in the wrong body.
And further, we know the "medical pathway" is dangerous and creates a lifetime of medical dependency, why would we pursue that route when we have no evidence that it helps treat GD?
No matter the condition, we should always follow the "first, do no harm" rule, correct?
Ignatius A
Well-Known Member
I want to know if you think someone with a penis who believes, thinks or feels like a woman is actually a woman?
Either answer the question or stop bothering me.
Last edited:
Ignatius A
Well-Known Member
Sure you do you just prefer your BS. Its a simple question
I want to know if you think someone with a penis who believes, thinks or feels that they are a woman is actually a woman?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
LOL! Correcting your errors is not "bothering" you. If you do not want to be corrected quit making silly errors.
Ignatius A
Well-Known Member
I want to know if you think someone with a penis who believes, thinks or feels that they are a woman is actually a woman?