Gender reassignment/affirming surgery

[icehorse]

There is no doubt that JKR has a strange deep seated hatred of trans people. Why, no one knows. When you use such a poor source no rational person is going to take you seriously. All that you have done is to demonstrate that transphobia is a real thing. You have not helped your arguments at all.

Trans activists have jammed zero-sum solutions into our societies. Wins for trans people at the expense of women's safety and women's rights. That is ALL that JKR is fighting for, non-zero-sum solutions.

So why are YOU so invested in supporting misogynistic, zero-sum solutions. Are trans people "more oppressed" than women?

As for the source.. AGAIN, WITH JAZZ HANDS, JKR provided 10 concrete, verifiable examples. Even if JKR was a raging transphobe - which she's not - it wouldn't matter. The examples have nothing to do with whoever cites them. Do you get that???

And you know what, we really don't need you to make conclusions here when you are failing on the basics of debate. Do you even know what falsifiable means? You appear not to

 

[Subduction Zone]

Trans activists have jammed zero-sum solutions into our societies. Wins for trans people at the expense of women's safety and women's rights. That is ALL that JKR is fighting for, non-zero-sum solutions.

So why are YOU so invested in supporting misogynistic, zero-sum solutions. Are trans people "more oppressed" than women?

As for the source.. AGAIN, WITH JAZZ HANDS, JKR provided 10 concrete, verifiable examples. Even if JKR was a raging transphobe - which she's not - it wouldn't matter. The examples have nothing to do with whoever cites them. Do you get that???

And you know what, we really don't need you to make conclusions here when you are failing on the basics of debate. Do you even know what falsifiable means? You appear not to

And JKR is not reliable. You do not go to known racists for data about African Americans. You do not go to known transphobes for information on transsexual people.


And yes, transsexual people face far more oppression than women do. That is demonstrated largely by their suicide rate.

 

[libre]

And yes, transsexual people face far more oppression than women do. That is demonstrated largely by their suicide rate.

I'd lodge the objection that 'trans' and 'woman' are categories that overlap.

Also demonstrated by the victim rate of violent crime: Transgender people over four times more likely than cisgender people to be victims of violent crime.
How lovely a world it would be if people were more concerned with people who attacked trans people rather than restricting trans people's ability to transition.

 

[icehorse]

And JKR is not reliable. You do not go to known racists for data about African Americans. You do not go to known transphobes for information on transsexual people.

Once again - that tweet stream contains FALSIFIABLE CLAIMS about 10 bad men. IT DOES NOT MATTER how much you like or do not like JKR.

The claims are there in black and white. Are they true?

And I will ask you once again, do you understand the idea of falsifiable claims and their importance in debate and discussion? You seem to be unclear on the concept.

 

[icehorse]

I'd lodge the objection that 'trans' and 'woman' are categories that overlap.

Also demonstrated by the victim rate of violent crime: Transgender people over four times more likely than cisgender people to be victims of violent crime.
How lovely a world it would be if people were more concerned with people who attacked trans people rather than restricting trans people's ability to transition.

Why are you so hell bent on sterilizing confused gay kids? How lovely it would be if that practice were to stop... today!

Do you understand that kids with GD - when left to go through puberty naturally - mostly do NOT transition? Do you agree that the goal of helping kids with GD should be - first and foremost - to improve their mental health? It seems as though you've bought into the idea that kids with GD should be ripe for transitioning?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Once again - that tweet stream contains FALSIFIABLE CLAIMS about 10 bad men. IT DOES NOT MATTER how much you like or do not like JKR.

The claims are there in black and white. Are they true?

And I will ask you once again, do you understand the idea of falsifiable claims and their importance in debate and discussion? You seem to be unclear on the concept.

Then provide a reliable source. You keep saying "it's true, it's true".

When you make a claim the burden of proof is upon you. That means that you must find a reliable source that supports you.

I could claim that "black men just want to rape white women" and cite a known racist that cherry picked cases. That would not help me. And that is exactly what you did.

 

[icehorse]

Then provide a reliable source. You keep saying "it's true, it's true".

When you make a claim the burden of proof is upon you. That means that you must find a reliable source that supports you.

I could claim that "black men just want to rape white women" and cite a known racist that cherry picked cases. That would not help me. And that is exactly what you did.

No, no. no.

I have provided 11 specific examples at your request. These examples have been posted on the internet for over a month now. If they were inaccurate, someone would have said something.

I know these examples upset your view of reality, but again, they are easily verifiable.

And you haven't answered my question... Do you understand what falsifiable claims are and why they are so important in debates??

 

[We Never Know]

Why are you so hell bent on sterilizing confused gay kids? How lovely it would be if that practice were to stop... today!

Do you understand that kids with GD - when left to go through puberty naturally - mostly do NOT transition? Do you agree that the goal of helping kids with GD should be - first and foremost - to improve their mental health? It seems as though you've bought into the idea that kids with GD should be ripe for transitioning?

I read this a few days ago..

"Puberty blockers and sex hormones do not have U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approval for children’s gender care. No clinical trials have established their safety for such off-label use. The drugs’ long-term effects on fertility and sexual function remain unclear. And in 2016, the FDA ordered makers of puberty blockers to add a warning about psychiatric problems to the drugs’ label after the agency received several reports of suicidal thoughts in children who were taking them.

More broadly, no large-scale studies have tracked people who received gender-related medical care as children to determine how many remained satisfied with their treatment as they aged and how many eventually regretted transitioning. The same lack of clarity holds true for the contentious issue of detransitioning, when a patient stops or reverses the transition process.

The National Institutes of Health, the U.S. government agency responsible for medical and public health research, told Reuters that “the evidence is limited on whether these treatments pose short- or long-term health risks for transgender and other gender-diverse adolescents.” The NIH has funded a comprehensive study to examine mental health and other outcomes for about 400 transgender youths treated at four U.S. children’s hospitals. However, long-term results are years away and may not address concerns such as fertility or cognitive development."

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-care/#:~:text=Puberty%20blockers%20and%20sex%20hormones,and%20sexual%20function%20remain%20unclear.

 

[icehorse]

There is no doubt that JKR has a strange deep seated hatred of trans people.

I do not agree with your characterization of JKR. Please provide proof of your claim here, otherwise it's libel.

 

[libre]

Why are you so hell bent on sterilizing confused gay kids?

Why are you so hell bent on interpreting my posts in the most obtuse way possible?

 

[Ignatius A]

The Soul is socially constructed. (Afrocolombianos have a cultural notion that one can enslave the body, but not the soul, for example.)

What if your body doesn’t match your Soul?

Does it have to? If so, why?

 

[Ignatius A]

Why are you so hell bent on interpreting my posts in the most obtuse way possible?

I noticed you dodged the questioned.

 

[Ignatius A]

And JKR is not reliable. You do not go to known racists for data about African Americans. You do not go to known transphobes for information on transsexual people.


And yes, transsexual people face far more oppression than women do. That is demonstrated largely by their suicide rate.

That second part is NOTHING but pure speculation. It's the same shallow reasoning as the "pay gap" BS. You must have had a smirk on your face when you typed that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That second part is NOTHING but pure speculation. It's the same shallow reasoning as the "pay gap" BS. You must have had a smirk on your face when you typed that.

No, it is not speculation at all. Seriously, are you unaware of the very high rate of suicide by trans people?

By the way, when you make a false claims such as your accusation of "speculation" that is a debating error. I could demand that you prove that my claim about the suicide rate is false. You should have demanded evidence that supported my claim. I will take pity upon you this time:

Suicide and Suicidal Behavior among Transgender Persons - PMC

Suicide rate and suicidal tendencies among transgender persons are considerably high compared to general population. Hence, this review is an attempt to understand the issues around the suicide and suicidal behavior among transgender persons. The ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"

Abstract​

Background:​

Suicide rate and suicidal tendencies among transgender persons are considerably high compared to general population. Hence, this review is an attempt to understand the issues around the suicide and suicidal behavior among transgender persons.

Methodology:​

The literature search conducted using three sources, i.e., electronic databases (PubMed, ProQuest, Google Scholar, PsycInfo), manual search (library catalog), and gray literature (consultation with experts).

Results:​

The suicide attempt rate among transgender persons ranges from 32% to 50% across the countries. Gender-based victimization, discrimination, bullying, violence, being rejected by the family, friends, and community; harassment by intimate partner, family members, police and public; discrimination and ill treatment at health-care system are the major risk factors that influence the suicidal behavior among transgender persons."

I could provide more but my claim is clearly not speculation.

 

[Ignatius A]

No, it is not speculation at all. Seriously, are you unaware of the very high rate of suicide by trans people?

By the way, when you make a false claims such as your accusation of "speculation" that is a debating error. I could demand that you prove that my claim about the suicide rate is false. You should have demanded evidence that supported my claim. I will take pity upon you this time:

Suicide and Suicidal Behavior among Transgender Persons - PMC

Suicide rate and suicidal tendencies among transgender persons are considerably high compared to general population. Hence, this review is an attempt to understand the issues around the suicide and suicidal behavior among transgender persons. The ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"

Abstract​

Background:​

Suicide rate and suicidal tendencies among transgender persons are considerably high compared to general population. Hence, this review is an attempt to understand the issues around the suicide and suicidal behavior among transgender persons.

Methodology:​

The literature search conducted using three sources, i.e., electronic databases (PubMed, ProQuest, Google Scholar, PsycInfo), manual search (library catalog), and gray literature (consultation with experts).

Results:​

The suicide attempt rate among transgender persons ranges from 32% to 50% across the countries. Gender-based victimization, discrimination, bullying, violence, being rejected by the family, friends, and community; harassment by intimate partner, family members, police and public; discrimination and ill treatment at health-care system are the major risk factors that influence the suicidal behavior among transgender persons."

I could provide more but my claim is clearly not speculation.

So its all based on what other people wrote.

It was also done in India.

 

[Banach-Tarski Paradox]

The Soul is socially constructed. (Afrocolombianos have a cultural notion that one can enslave the body, but not the soul, for example.)

What if your body doesn’t match your Soul?

Does it have to? If so, why?

That’s between your body and your soul, isn’t it? You are certainly free to seek input from other souls, but really, my soul can’t see inside your soul.

And since it has to do with your body, I’d suggest you consult with a doctor, as well.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

@Subduction Zone , @The Hammer -

Categories matter. Without using categories, the modern life you enjoy would not be possible. And even though most category schemes allow for rare exceptions, they are still essential.

Biological sex matters. The fact that rare anomalies happen does not render biological sex wrong. For the vast majority of people, their biological sex, which is almost always established long before birth, impacts a vast array of developmental mechanisms as they grow and mature.

So unless an individual has a rare condition, they are either a man or a woman. It IS that simple. A trans man is NOT a man. A trans woman is NOT a woman.

You've been told. Biologists and doctors know this. If you think otherwise you've - one way or another - bought in to some weird post-modern, tear-it-all-down, destructive worldview. Society is NOT infinitely ****-with-able, so just stop.

Sex matters! It matters in healthcare - a lot. It matters when it comes to safeguarding women and girls. It matters in sports. It can matter in affirmative action.

Saying that a trans woman is a trans woman does not deny that person's existence. Pretending that a trans woman is a woman is misogynistic and needlessly zero-sum. Demanding that society accepts the lie that a trans woman is a woman does not help trans people, it vilifies them. It does not promote acceptance and good will to force people to lie.

Again, yes. Life matters, but from there does'nt follow that you can reduce it down to only positive and in a sense universal categories.

 

[icehorse]

Again, yes. Life matters, but from there does'nt follow that you can reduce it down to only positive and in a sense universal categories.

And again, you should start a thread in the philosophy forum

 

[SkepticThinker]

No, no. no.

I have provided 11 specific examples at your request. These examples have been posted on the internet for over a month now. If they were inaccurate, someone would have said something.

I know these examples upset your view of reality, but again, they are easily verifiable.

And you haven't answered my question... Do you understand what falsifiable claims are and why they are so important in debates??

No, you didn't. You copied and pasted someone else's examples.
And those examples have already been addressed umpteen times on your threads already.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

And again, you should start a thread in the philosophy forum

No, you use categoires and what matters. You started so we stay here.