Genesis 2

[Triumphant_Loser]

I'm ok with that.
Just noting that a day in the perspective of God might be different.

Even still. There are other parts of the Genesis creation account that are problematic... such as plant life being created before the sun and somehow managing to live without sunlight in what would be subzero temperatures.

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly
Hi TL, Those events are in the Bible( OT and NT).
I assure you that what GOD said was not "empty threats"....as is evidenced in those pages.

And how do you know what the Bible says is true? Were you there when it was written?

Hi TL, Were you there when any of the Scriptures were written?
You and I are using "reasoning powers" to discern the truth. Those who lived and acknowledged the power of the Creator GOD by many miraculous events recorded those events for us---living thousands of years later than the events.
The reasoning of mankind in no way can be compared to that of the Creator GOD.
Those Scriptures declare that the Creator GOD "spake and it stood fast." (Ps.33:4-12) (HIS words are right.)

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by Thief
I'm ok with that.
Just noting that a day in the perspective of God might be different.

Even still. There are other parts of the Genesis creation account that are problematic... such as plant life being created before the sun and somehow managing to live without sunlight in what would be subzero temperatures.

TL, There is evidence of the Creation of all things was done by GOD in seven literal 24 hour days----The seventh day Sabbath attests to that fact. God verified that account by placing it in the the Decalogue in association to mankind's acknowledging HIM as their GOD.(Ex.20:8-11)
A lot of energy was released in the creative process. And GOD was the "light" during the early days of Creation.
You may have a problem(humanly thinking/reasoning) concerning GOD's ability to produce and protect that which HE Made, but I do not.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

Originally Posted by Thief
I'm ok with that.
Just noting that a day in the perspective of God might be different.



TL, There is evidence of the Creation of all things was done by GOD in seven literal 24 hour days----The seventh day Sabbath attests to that fact. God verified that account by placing it in the the Decalogue in association to mankind's acknowledging HIM as their GOD.(Ex.20:8-11)
A lot of energy was released in the creative process. And GOD was the "light" during the early days of Creation.
You may have a problem(humanly thinking/reasoning) concerning GOD's ability to produce and protect that which HE Made, but I do not.

You are still using the Bible to prove the Bible. That's like me using the Harry Potter series to prove that Harry Potter exists. How do you know that the Bible is a divinely inspired book, and not just some man-made book of fairy tales?

 

[Thief]

You are still using the Bible to prove the Bible. That's like me using the Harry Potter series to prove that Harry Potter exists. How do you know that the Bible is a divinely inspired book, and not just some man-made book of fairy tales?

If you regard the bible as a fairy tale then you can't have regard for it.

There's sufficient cause to have regard.
You're simply choosing to disallow it.

Fiction stories (if you insist) are often written to point and principle.

 

[Thief]

Even still. There are other parts of the Genesis creation account that are problematic... such as plant life being created before the sun and somehow managing to live without sunlight in what would be subzero temperatures.

Yeah I know....and the earth before the rest of the solar system....
yeah...I noticed.

But I also consider that God was speaking to an eighty year old man who likely didn't have a clue.
Make do with what you have at hand ...I suppose.

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly TL, There is evidence of the Creation of all things was done by GOD in seven literal 24 hour days----The seventh day Sabbath attests to that fact. God verified that account by placing it in the the Decalogue in association to mankind's acknowledging HIM as their GOD.(Ex.20:8-11)
A lot of energy was released in the creative process. And GOD was the "light" during the early days of Creation.
You may have a problem(humanly thinking/reasoning) concerning GOD's ability to produce and protect that which HE Made, but I do not.

You are still using the Bible to prove the Bible. That's like me using the Harry Potter series to prove that Harry Potter exists. How do you know that the Bible is a divinely inspired book, and not just some man-made book of fairy tales?

Long after the first recording(written word ) of the Creation events, the Creator of all that is seen Walked and lived among mankind for approx. 33 1/2 years Fulfilling those prophesied events concerning HIM. There were witnesses of HIS teachings and the verifying fulfillments as recorded.

Your claimed acceptance or rejection of HIS actions is your witness.
I see the earth and the contents of it---all is reality. Therefore, I believe.

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by Triumphant_Loser
Even still. There are other parts of the Genesis creation account that are problematic... such as plant life being created before the sun and somehow managing to live without sunlight in what would be subzero temperatures.

Yeah I know....and the earth before the rest of the solar system....
yeah...I noticed.

But I also consider that God was speaking to an eighty year old man who likely didn't have a clue.
Make do with what you have at hand ...I suppose.

Beware--Human logic at work above.
The Scriptures state that the "evening and the morning" were the -----day(first through the sixth.
During the "light" portion of the day, vegetation was created and the Sun, moon and stars of this solar system were created during the Day of the next 24 hour period.
No conflict---vegetation still has "night conditions"(and cold) and the vegtation at the artic circle live through the darkest periods,----GOD was aware of what HE was doing in Creation week.

That eighty year old man---Moses---lived another 40 years before he died.

 

[Thief]

Originally Posted by Triumphant_Loser
Even still. There are other parts of the Genesis creation account that are problematic... such as plant life being created before the sun and somehow managing to live without sunlight in what would be subzero temperatures.



Beware--Human logic at work above.
The Scriptures state that the "evening and the morning" were the -----day(first through the sixth.
During the "light" portion of the day, vegetation was created and the Sun, moon and stars of this solar system were created during the Day of the next 24 hour period.
No conflict---vegetation still has "night conditions"(and cold) and the vegtation at the artic circle live through the darkest periods,----GOD was aware of what HE was doing in Creation week.

That eighty year old man---Moses---lived another 40 years before he died.

None the less...at the point of delivery....
God would not be able.....yeah that's right......not able...
to set upon Moses what we now know to be true.

Try adding temperature to your previous note.
as well as basic chemistry that would be this planet.
The planet before the sun?
Not likely.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

Yeah I know....and the earth before the rest of the solar system....
yeah...I noticed.

But I also consider that God was speaking to an eighty year old man who likely didn't have a clue.
Make do with what you have at hand ...I suppose.

So God lied to him then?

 

[Thief]

So God lied to him then?

Nay....
But of course I rationalize the event.
No matter how well taught Moses may have been....current day terms would mean nothing to him.

If he would ask...what is Man made of?....dust would be correct.
And you could prove it.
Cut the man, let him bleed unto a rock and let him watch as the dried blood dries up and blows away.

But you can't telll him about celluar structure or genetics.
You can't tell him that light is made of a fusion reaction.
You can't even explain the basic firmament.
You can't say the substance you call 'water' is anything but that.
See Genesis.

Read it again.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Nay....
But of course I rationalize the event.
No matter how well taught Moses may have been....current day terms would mean nothing to him.

If he would ask...what is Man made of?....dust would be correct.
And you could prove it.
Cut the man, let him bleed unto a rock and let him watch as the dried blood dries up and blows away.

But you can't telll him about celluar structure or genetics.
You can't tell him that light is made of a fusion reaction.
You can't even explain the basic firmament.
You can't say the substance you call 'water' is anything but that.
See Genesis.

Read it again.

Why can't God tell him that? The same God who if I remember correctly it was either Jeremiah or Isaiah who complained that he could not speak and God said that he would give him the tongue to speak. You are telling me that the same God who created the Universe who could create individuals like Newton, Einstein, Galileo, Pasteur, Mendel, and all the other great philosophers, inventors, scientists, and discovers of our world...could not make Moses understand?

He couldn't explain to Moses that the earth moves around the sun? What more is needed than that simple statement, no explanation needed. Could not tell Moses that there wasn't a firmament, that rain came from the clouds? That the moon did not have it's own light, it just reflected the sun, you think there was an explanation needed if it's being told to you by God?

 

[sincerly]

Beware--Human logic at work above.
The Scriptures state that the "evening and the morning" were the -----day(first through the sixth.
During the "light" portion of the day, vegetation was created and the Sun, moon and stars of this solar system were created during the Day of the next 24 hour period.
No conflict---vegetation still has "night conditions"(and cold) and the vegtation at the artic circle live through the darkest periods,----GOD was aware of what HE was doing in Creation week.

That eighty year old man---Moses---lived another 40 years before he died.

None the less...at the point of delivery....
God would not be able.....yeah that's right......not able...
to set upon Moses what we now know to be true.

Try adding temperature to your previous note.
as well as basic chemistry that would be this planet.
The planet before the sun?
Not likely.

The combinations of the elements into compounds produces heat.
Nothing is impossible to GOD----Matt.19:26, "But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."

 

[Thief]

Beware--Human logic at work above.
The Scriptures state that the "evening and the morning" were the -----day(first through the sixth.
During the "light" portion of the day, vegetation was created and the Sun, moon and stars of this solar system were created during the Day of the next 24 hour period.
No conflict---vegetation still has "night conditions"(and cold) and the vegtation at the artic circle live through the darkest periods,----GOD was aware of what HE was doing in Creation week.

That eighty year old man---Moses---lived another 40 years before he died.



The combinations of the elements into compounds produces heat.
Nothing is impossible to GOD----Matt.19:26, "But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."

Nay....fusion is a crushing of sub atomic particles into heavier elements.
not elements into compounds.

Anyway.....try viewing the event as if you are there.
Genesis is an introduction......God Himself in the face of an old man.
Moses has climbed the mountain.
Not because he was called....but to meet his Maker.
He went up unto the forbidden mountain to die.
He went trespassing on God's mountain not expecting to return.

So.....
Does God have this as an opportunity to bestow unto Moses all they we know as true science?......I think not.

Terms of day and night as we know them?......no.
Consider the terms as brief moments between one formation and another.
We don't accomplish what we do all in one day.
We have brief moments (night) when no work is done.

Saying to Moses the creation in terms we now know as real......would not have worked.
You can't say fusion to Moses and expect him to grasp the notion.
You can't say billions of years for the solar system to form.....he won't get it.

And if he confuses which item came first.....let it slide.

God wasn't talking to a science major.
He was making His own introduction to an old man.

THEN sends that old man back down the mountain as a stammering prophet!

Genesis is read best by people who ARE willing to read between the lines!

 

[sincerly]

Nay....fusion is a crushing of sub atomic particles into heavier elements.
not elements into compounds.

Anyway.....try viewing the event as if you are there.
Genesis is an introduction......God Himself in the face of an old man.
Moses has climbed the mountain.
Not because he was called....but to meet his Maker.
He went up unto the forbidden mountain to die.
He went trespassing on God's mountain not expecting to return.

So.....
Does God have this as an opportunity to bestow unto Moses all they we know as true science?......I think not.

Terms of day and night as we know them?......no.
Consider the terms as brief moments between one formation and another.
We don't accomplish what we do all in one day.
We have brief moments (night) when no work is done.

Saying to Moses the creation in terms we now know as real......would not have worked.
You can't say fusion to Moses and expect him to grasp the notion.
You can't say billions of years for the solar system to form.....he won't get it.

And if he confuses which item came first.....let it slide.

God wasn't talking to a science major.
He was making His own introduction to an old man.

THEN sends that old man back down the mountain as a stammering prophet!

Genesis is read best by people who ARE willing to read between the lines!

Moses wasn't with GOD when Adam and Eve were CreatedAnd it was during those 40 days of teaching Moses at the time of the Giving of the Decalogue and the Sanctuary services that GOD revealed to MOSES the history of Mankind up to the Exodus(including the Creation week) .
The knowledge of much of of what we know of "science" has actually been understood in the last 200 years. Daniel(12:4)
prophesied that fact hundreds if years before Jesus was born.

The Biblical Scriptures were not intended to deal with many subjects of the "inquiring mind of man"-----from the "beginning" one is to "know GOD" and HIS plan of salvation.

The Scriptures indicate that the redeemed of all persons will be observers of the mighty power of GOD'S Creative powers when the "New heaven and the new earth are Created. GOD spake and it stood fast, one will not have to wait trillions of years for it to be "home".

 

[Thief]

Moses wasn't with GOD when Adam and Eve were CreatedAnd it was during those 40 days of teaching Moses at the time of the Giving od the Decalogue and the Sanctuary services that GOD revealed to MOSES the history of Mankind up to the Exodus(including the Creation week) .
The knowledge of much of of what we know of "science" has actually been understood in the last 200 years.

The Biblical Scriptures were not intended to deal with many subjects of the "inquiring mind of man"-----from the "beginning" one is to "know GOD" and HIS plan of salvation.

The Scriptures indicate that the redeemed of all persons will be observers of the mighty power of GOD'S Creative powers when the "New heaven and the new earth are Created.

Ok...but the discussion unto Moses was not about salvation.
So I take that discussion with current science in mind.
Moses di not know....and could not have known.

So again, the dialog rendered to Moses was in terms he could deal with.
It's not a science book per say.

 

[sincerly]

Ok...but the discussion unto Moses was not about salvation.
So I take that discussion with current science in mind.
Moses di not know....and could not have known.

So again, the dialog rendered to Moses was in terms he could deal with.
It's not a science book per say.

Not a science book per se---Correct, but those laws pertaining to the tabernacle and the divine services rendered there (sacrifices/priests/etc. ) were concerning salvation of believing persons.
Moses wrote about Adam's disobedience and the animal that was slain to atone for them/cover their "nakedness."

 

[Thief]

Not a science book per se---Correct, but those laws pertaining to the tabernacle and the divine services rendered there (sacrifices/priests/etc. ) were concerning salvation of believing persons.
Moses wrote about Adam's disobedience and the animal that was slain to atone for them/cover their "nakedness."

yeah...and I noticed the detailed application of the blood.

But I don't believe the death of something else atones for my misbehavior.

And I don't believe in the salvation rants of the Christain faith.

I strongly suspect we are held to our words and deeds.
Therefore....
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
It is a code of behavior....and fair warning.

No one needs anything else or anything more.

 

[sincerly]

yeah...and I noticed the detailed application of the blood.

But I don't believe the death of something else atones for my misbehavior.

And I don't believe in the salvation rants of the Christain faith.

I strongly suspect we are held to our words and deeds.
Therefore....
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
It is a code of behavior....and fair warning.

No one needs anything else or anything more.

Thief, I know the you do not believe that slain animal to "clothe their nakedness" was "bloodless".
Since the Scriptures state that the penalty for SIN is "Death", and the Scriptures indicate the first death is one that all die(wicked and righteous) and the second death is because one refuses to repent of those "incriminating words and deeds" and submit to the Father's Will----, Just how do you propose to pay that sin debt (death) and still live?
Those fig leaves did not satisfy the debt for Adam and Eve.
Right actions/behavior after the fact still leaves one guilty before the GOD of the Universe.

 

[Thief]

Thief, I know the you do not believe that slain animal to "clothe their nakedness" was "bloodless".
Since the Scriptures state that the penalty for SIN is "Death", and the Scriptures indicate the first death is one that all die(wicked and righteous) and the second death is because one refuses to repent of those "incriminating words and deeds" and submit to the Father's Will----, Just how do you propose to pay that sin debt (death) and still live?
Those fig leaves did not satisfy the debt for Adam and Eve.
Right actions/behavior after the fact still leaves one guilty before the GOD of the Universe.

I recall it was God that gave Adam and Eve animal skins to cover their bodies.
I didn't see a sacrifice in that move.

I don't impose a debt problem in the garden event.
The alledged temptation has been thought of as a test.
I am not opposed to that notion.

Having altered the body and spirit of Man....
the next step would be an event to be sure the alteration took hold.

Would Man be that creature curious to know....even if death could be pending?

YES!....the alteration took hold.
We are that creature.

That we 'cover' our revelation with religion doesn't mean we all understand.
The need to cover is no more than a symptom.

God did ask....'who told you, you are naked?'
The urge to cover up is no more than our souls knowing we can't really hide.