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Genesis 2

sincerly

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by sincerly View Post
Originally Posted by sincerly View Post The Creator GOD of the Scriptures doesn't need the approval of Scientist. GOD is seen/found by all who truly seek for HIM.

Don't you find it odd that this is about Genesis 2 and the Jews aren't posting. Why is that? Is this argument mostly about how Christians view Genesis?

CG D, Why one participates or refrains is not for me to ponder. I just witness to what the Scriptures reveal to me as the Laws of GOD and HIS inspired prophets reveal. You have indicated a desire to know on the one hand and then a rejection of the Scriptures and GOD on the other.

Therefore, my question concerning the book:the Pilgrim's Progress.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Originally Posted by sincerly View Post
Originally Posted by sincerly View Post The Creator GOD of the Scriptures doesn't need the approval of Scientist. GOD is seen/found by all who truly seek for HIM.
...I just witness to what the Scriptures reveal to me as the Laws of GOD and HIS inspired prophets reveal...
What do the Scriptures reveal to you about the Laws of God? You know, the temporary ones that God told his chosen people they should keep forever. But that now, aren't all that important. Hmmm? I wonder why God told Moses how to keep the Sabbath if the Sabbath isn't important anymore? Now what does that reveal to me? It reveals that religious truth can and does change. Religions evolve. New ones pop up and old ones get re-worked.

Oh, and I've got a good book for you. It's the Ramayana. I don't remember much, I read it 40 years ago, but I remember it was pretty good. It's about Rama, a Prince or a King or something. His wife gets kidnapped by an evil person. The captain of Rama's army, a monkey, helps to rescue her. Great story. Probably isn't meant to be taken literally, though. After all, the monkey jumps from India to Sri Lanka. I don't think that's possible. Of course having a monkey as the captain in your army, that's different. That's probably true.

What's your story about? Oh, and that other story, the one called Genesis. I understand you take that literal? Doesn't it make more sense as allegory? You know, who could ever believe that God came down to Earth in person to take a rib from Adam to make his wife? It's kind of unlikely that God would have forgotten to make Adam a female counterpart, don't you think? Especially since he made all the other animals in male and female pairs so they could mate. Oh, I guess except for the things that divide to reproduce. Or, the ones that are male for part of their lives and female in the other part. What was God thinking when he made them?

And don't you think it's crazy that some people take Genesis so literal that they actually think that plant life was here on Earth before there was any stars in the sky? But anyway, what were you telling me about the truth? What exactly is the truth? You said you have it and know it? Too bad that Mr. Doubtful doesn't believe you. And what was your name? Mr. Knowsforcertain? I've met several Knowsforcertain. And they all tell me something different.
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by sincerly View Post The Creator GOD of the Scriptures doesn't need the approval of Scientist. GOD is seen/found by all who truly seek for HIM.
...I just witness to what the Scriptures reveal to me as the Laws of GOD and HIS inspired prophets reveal...

CG D said:
What do the Scriptures reveal to you about the Laws of God? You know, the temporary ones that God told his chosen people they should keep forever. But that now, aren't all that important. Hmmm? I wonder why God told Moses how to keep the Sabbath if the Sabbath isn't important anymore? Now what does that reveal to me? It reveals that religious truth can and does change. Religions evolve. New ones pop up and old ones get re-worked.

CG D, Since the Sabbath was instituted by GOD in Gen.2:2-3, that is a fair question for this topic.
Notice! "And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made."
to further follow the Sabbath and the "chosen people" connection at Sinai the permanency of the Sabbath was placed in the Decalogue between those giving/showing LOVE to GOD and those showing love to one's fellow man.

Notice: Ex.20:8-11, "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Did GOD say it was just "temporary" or "just to rest from labor"? NOT according to these texts. Lev. 23:1-3, "And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts. Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings."
What made the assembling "Holy" was it was meeting weekly with the Creator GOD.
Now notice Ex.31:12-18, "And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.""

Before you even start with the unfounded claim---"its only for the Jews"---Remember that a "mixed multitude of people accompanied the "chosen people out of Egypt" and stood at the foot of Sinai as GOD spoke to them all.
Deut.10:17-19, reveals this truth For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward: "
Peter acknowledged the fact, Acts 10:34, "Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:"
As did Paul, Gal.3:28-29, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.""
And what was Jesus Christ's declaration? John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Those who are given the "everlasting life" are seen in the earth made new Isa.66:22-23, For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD."
For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

God said that "convocating" would continue in the earth made new.

CG D said:
Too bad that Mr. Doubtful doesn't believe you. And what was your name? Mr. Knowsforcertain? I've met several Knowsforcertain. And they all tell me something different.

I don't need to tell you about the book which was written around 1675 in England by a "Believer" in GOD---He used characters named as you have portrayed. (but not those names.)
 
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outhouse

Atheistically
Not a word of your pathetic rant, refutes a word, or even addresses a word from the AIP.


IAP - IAP Statement on the Teaching of Evolution

We agree that the following evidence-based facts about the origins and evolution of the Earth and of life on this planet have been established by numerous observations and independently derived experimental results from a multitude of scientific disciplines. Even if there are still many open questions about the precise details of evolutionary change, scientific evidence has never contradicted these results:

•In a universe that has evolved towards its present configuration for some 11 to 15 billion years, our Earth formed approximately 4.5 billion years ago.
•Since its formation, the Earth – its geology and its environments – has changed under the effect of numerous physical and chemical forces and continues to do so.
•Life appeared on Earth at least 2.5 billion years ago. The evolution, soon after, of photosynthetic organisms enabled, from at least 2 billion years ago, the slow transformation of the atmosphere to one containing substantial quantities of oxygen. In addition to the release of the oxygen that we breathe, the process of photosynthesis is the ultimate source of fixed energy and food upon which human life on the planet depends.
•Since its first appearance on Earth, life has taken many forms, all of which continue to evolve, in ways which palaeontology and the modern biological and biochemical sciences are describing and independently confirming with increasing precision. Commonalities in the structure of the genetic code of all organisms living today, including humans, clearly indicate their common primordial origin.
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
from the IAP statement said:
Even if...

scientific evidence has never contradicted these results:

Comprehension. Try it.

That was referring to the four bulleted statements presented. That was after the admitted lack of "details" which you conveniently omitted.

As previously posted, those were discussed in post many , many pages back.
Those, also, had many missing "Details"/facts other than the "Theories" by which they were "claimed".
 

outhouse

Atheistically
COMPREHENSION

"Even if", there is a lack of details, "scientific evidence has never contradicted these results:"


The lack of intellect here is so embarrassing.
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
Lucky bad ideas die out, and that way the world can move forward. :yes:


The world is fast moving towards the end of those Three Angels messages to the peoples of the time before the Coming of the LORD and the hour of HIS Judgment.
Rev.14:6-12, "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.""

The Scriptures are so awesome.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Blah blah blah

You don't have any credibility, and no one to discount scientist from a point of severe ignorance.
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
COMPREHENSION

"Even if", there is a lack of details, "scientific evidence has never contradicted these results:"


The lack of intellect here is so embarrassing.

The statement as written
Even if there are still many open questions about the precise details of evolutionary change, scientific evidence has never contradicted these results:

•In a universe that has evolved towards its present configuration for some 11 to 15 billion years,..."

You should be embarrassed! You failed to place your facepalm. Should I place it for you?

If the age of the universe was as the scientist say, they should have "details" to narrow that 25% gap to a few thousand years for it to be "FACT".
But the truth of the matter is they rely upon speculated data--even the supposed "observed evidence"---circuitously. Therefore, the 25% margin of error.
"Facts" are 100%---error free.
 

Bunyip

pro scapegoat
The statement as written

You should be embarrassed! You failed to place your facepalm. Should I place it for you?

If the age of the universe was as the scientist say, they should have "details" to narrow that 25% gap to a few thousand years for it to be "FACT".
But the truth of the matter is they rely upon speculated data--even the supposed "observed evidence"---circuitously. Therefore, the 25% margin of error.
"Facts" are 100%---error free.

The age of the universe is calculated to within a fraction of a percent, not 25%.

It is 13.798 billion years.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
The world is fast moving towards the end of those Three Angels messages to the peoples of the time before the Coming of the LORD and the hour of HIS Judgment.
Maybe in God-time, but in people time, it is slow. How long was God's Creation perfect? One day? Then how many years before he gave the Law to Moses? A couple of thousand? Then a couple more before he revealed the "true" plan of salvation with his Son Jesus. Now it's been a couple more thousand years of turmoil.

Why would he drag everything out so long? Didn't he prove himself to Noah's family? Didn't he demonstrate his power by destroying Sodom and Gomorrah? Didn't he prove he was real to the Egyptians and to the prophets of Baal? Why would people keep questioning his existence and refusing to follow his Laws?

The questions start right at the beginning, in Genesis. The story sounds mythical. The story sounds like a narrative told by some ancient story-teller. It doesn't sound like God, himself, dictated it to Moses. Plus, the stories are so similar to other creation stories, some of which predated it. I agree with Outhouse and others, that what we now know about biology, geology, astronomy and physics don't work with the explanations in Genesis.

Now, if you say it's a spiritual and religious story about a people trying to find their place in the universe, then it makes sense. They took myths from their neighboring tribes, fashioned them into something that could explain who they were and what was their place in the overall scheme of things, and then placed themselves in the center of God's plan. But, so did other people. I particularly like the Hopi's. They have end time prophecies also. And theirs are right on. They say we're all heading for disaster. You know what, I think that's a pretty safe bet. They said the Earth was destroyed several times, not just be flooding. Why aren't they right? I wonder what's their story of how the first man and woman came to be?

Ancient people told stories and tried to explain reality. Were any of them right? You say the Hebrews were right and all the rest wrong. Do you listen to the Hebrews today? No. Now you believe that even they're wrong, along with all of their other books and commentaries and explanations of their own Scriptures. That only the NT is right and how it explains the "OT". But, on top of that, only one interpretation of the NT is right, yours. But there's been many interpretations, and there's going to be many more. As things change, as we learn more and Christians have to adapt their beliefs into what we have come to know as true, they will re-interpret the Bible to fit.

With what we know right now, Genesis doesn't make literal sense to a lot of people, even some that consider themselves believers. I think it is important enough to question it. Because, if it's not literal, it's holding us all back from finding truth. However, if it is "The Truth", then it should pass the test of examination.

But, you know what, I'm happy in believing it is "The Truth" in a spiritual sense, as religious mythology. It teaches us spiritual truths, some still work, some need revising. But it was meant to hold a people together and give them something to believe in and give them hope and meaning in their lives. Just like all other religions do for their people. Why would one be better and more correct than another? Because they did work and they do work for the people that believe in them.

I don't think any of them are perfect. I think we can learn from them and grow, in a spiritual way, into something better than what we are. But then look at the bad that religion has brought. And look at those people that have abused their position of authority in religion. They have caused people to doubt and question and reject religion. Because of them, people have had to make laws limiting the power of religion. People have had to make laws that don't allow any one religion to have too much control.

So history has shown us, in a lot of ways, religion doesn't work. Of course it can, but it's too easily misused and manipulated. By who? By people claiming that they "know the truth" and that they "know what God wants" and that they "know the right way to interpret the Bible". Sorry, but I don't trust those kind of people. I don't think you are one of them, but, still, why is your interpretation the one right one?
 

gnostic

The Lost One
thief said:
Digression is not a sign of intellect.

And thumping the bible as a "science textbook" is?

Not understanding the scientific definition to "theory" is not the sign of intellect.

Not understanding that scientific theory is superior to law, is really not the sign of intellect.

Not understanding the difference evolution and the origin-of-life is not the sign of intellect.

Not grasping the overwhelming number of evidences that support and validate the theory of evolution as being scientifically and factually correct, showed that the person is seriously lacking in intellect.

Continually to bring up "spirit first, then substance" is...do I really say it again?
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
I have you don't have the intellect to understand it. :facepalm:

Gravity is fact, We do not have all the details of gravity.

No! Gravity is NOT evolution. It looks as if your intellect is faulty.

Nor are the very important "precise details" (i.e.) "the tangible /observed evidence"/elements from that man made "Big Bang"(from nothing) from which that "microbe spontaneously" produced all the Multicellular/multifunctional organisms---more functional than it was "Theorized" to be. It had to have/possess DNA which it was not utilizing.
 
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