Genesis 2

[sojourner]

This thread is getting tedious.
The level of vapid, "faith-based" "reasoning" is not conducive to raising intellectual awareness.

 

[outhouse]

This thread is getting tedious.
The level of vapid, "faith-based" "reasoning" is not conducive to raising intellectual awareness.

We are talking about a lack of reason.

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly View Post
No! Gravity is NOT evolution.

:clap
Hey you stated something correct.
And both have missing details, and both are fact.

True, the "theory of evolution" and the understanding of "Gravity" have a lot of "Details" which are not known. However, that information does NOT equate to either as being "fact". Those dots aren't connectible.
One feels, experiences, and sees the effect of Gravity and it is real.

One can see, feel/experience, the reality of all things upon the earth, however, the "source" by which both exists" is beyond human understanding./"those missing details" as understood by mankind.

The Creator GOD who "IS THE SOURCE", gave oral and written knowledge to the facts---of the "SOURCE."
Mankind, in all his wisdom, is still speculating---in the wrong direction.

BTW, I have not at any time claimed that gravity wasn't real/a fact.

 

[sojourner]

Mankind, in all his wisdom, is still speculating---in the wrong direction.

I disagree. Steps in scientific discovery are steps toward the Divine.

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly View Post
The statement as written
You should be embarrassed! You failed to place your facepalm. Should I place it for you?

If the age of the universe was as the scientist say, they should have "details" to narrow that 25% gap to a few thousand years for it to be "FACT".
But the truth of the matter is they rely upon speculated data--even the supposed "observed evidence"---circuitously. Therefore, the 25% margin of error.
"Facts" are 100%---error free.

The age of the universe is calculated to within a fraction of a percent, not 25%.

It is 13.798 billion years.

Bunyip, The "universe" as the Scriptures are depicting it in the telling about this solar system is excluded. Gen.1+2.
GOD is eternal---from everlasting unto everlasting. so 13.798 Billion years???

But the "universe" is not this "solar system".

The IAP had made this statement.

•In a universe that has evolved towards its present configuration for some 11 to 15 billion years,..."

And that is roughly 25%

 

[Bunyip]

Originally Posted by sincerly View Post
The statement as written
You should be embarrassed! You failed to place your facepalm. Should I place it for you?

If the age of the universe was as the scientist say, they should have "details" to narrow that 25% gap to a few thousand years for it to be "FACT".
But the truth of the matter is they rely upon speculated data--even the supposed "observed evidence"---circuitously. Therefore, the 25% margin of error.
"Facts" are 100%---error free.



Bunyip, The "universe" as the Scriptures are depicting it in the telling about this solar system is excluded. Gen.1+2.
GOD is eternal---from everlasting unto everlasting. so 13.798 Billion years???

But the "universe" is not this "solrar system".

Correct, and the universe is 13.798 billion years old, that is accurate to 5 decimal places - not 25%.

No idea what point you are trying to make her, could you elaborate? Nothingin science relies on 'speculated data' by the way, speculations are not data. The age of the universe is determined by measurement.

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly View Post
The world is fast moving towards the end of those Three Angels messages to the peoples of the time before the Coming of the LORD and the hour of HIS Judgment.

Maybe in God-time, but in people time, it is slow. How long was God's Creation perfect? One day? Then how many years before he gave the Law to Moses? A couple of thousand? Then a couple more before he revealed the "true" plan of salvation with his Son Jesus. Now it's been a couple more thousand years of turmoil.

Why would he drag everything out so long? Didn't he prove himself to Noah's family? Didn't he demonstrate his power by destroying Sodom and Gomorrah? Didn't he prove he was real to the Egyptians and to the prophets of Baal? Why would people keep questioning his existence and refusing to follow his Laws?

The questions start right at the beginning, in Genesis. The story sounds mythical. The story sounds like a narrative told by some ancient story-teller. It doesn't sound like God, himself, dictated it to Moses. Plus, the stories are so similar to other creation stories, some of which predated it. I agree with Outhouse and others, that what we now know about biology, geology, astronomy and physics don't work with the explanations in Genesis.

Now, if you say it's a spiritual and religious story about a people trying to find their place in the universe, then it makes sense. They took myths from their neighboring tribes, fashioned them into something that could explain who they were and what was their place in the overall scheme of things, and then placed themselves in the center of God's plan. But, so did other people. I particularly like the Hopi's. They have end time prophecies also. And theirs are right on. They say we're all heading for disaster. You know what, I think that's a pretty safe bet. They said the Earth was destroyed several times, not just be flooding. Why aren't they right? I wonder what's their story of how the first man and woman came to be?

Ancient people told stories and tried to explain reality. Were any of them right? You say the Hebrews were right and all the rest wrong. Do you listen to the Hebrews today? No. Now you believe that even they're wrong, along with all of their other books and commentaries and explanations of their own Scriptures. That only the NT is right and how it explains the "OT". But, on top of that, only one interpretation of the NT is right, yours. But there's been many interpretations, and there's going to be many more. As things change, as we learn more and Christians have to adapt their beliefs into what we have come to know as true, they will re-interpret the Bible to fit.

With what we know right now, Genesis doesn't make literal sense to a lot of people, even some that consider themselves believers. I think it is important enough to question it. Because, if it's not literal, it's holding us all back from finding truth. However, if it is "The Truth", then it should pass the test of examination.

But, you know what, I'm happy in believing it is "The Truth" in a spiritual sense, as religious mythology. It teaches us spiritual truths, some still work, some need revising. But it was meant to hold a people together and give them something to believe in and give them hope and meaning in their lives. Just like all other religions do for their people. Why would one be better and more correct than another? Because they did work and they do work for the people that believe in them.

I don't think any of them are perfect. I think we can learn from them and grow, in a spiritual way, into something better than what we are. But then look at the bad that religion has brought. And look at those people that have abused their position of authority in religion. They have caused people to doubt and question and reject religion. Because of them, people have had to make laws limiting the power of religion. People have had to make laws that don't allow any one religion to have too much control.

So history has shown us, in a lot of ways, religion doesn't work. Of course it can, but it's too easily misused and manipulated. By who? By people claiming that they "know the truth" and that they "know what God wants" and that they "know the right way to interpret the Bible". Sorry, but I don't trust those kind of people. I don't think you are one of them, but, still, why is your interpretation the one right one?

CG D, In all that you have presented, it is GOD that you are doubting/blaming and NOT DISOBEDIENT MANKIND.
I can only leave you with (Phil.2:12-14), "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:"

It is the Scriptures which are a light to your path of understanding.

 

[sincerly]

This thread is getting tedious.
The level of vapid, "faith-based" "reasoning" is not conducive to raising intellectual awareness.

2 Tim.4:3-4, "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."

Therefore, the "tastelessness" is because "faith-based reasoning" is lacking the allure to evil cogitations/wrong thinking.

 

[outhouse]

However, that information does NOT equate to either as being "fact".


.

You dont have the intellect to back that statement or comprehend what your saying nor the credibility to discuss this like an adult.

 

[sojourner]

2 Tim.4:3-4, "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."

Therefore, the "tastelessness" is because "faith-based reasoning" is lacking the allure to evil cogitations/wrong thinking.

Context. Acknowledging scientific fact isn't "wrong thinking," nor is it "evil." The tastelessness is due to the utter vapidity of your posts. You're simply not engaging in faith-based reasoning. You're not engaging in reasoning of any kind. You're engaging in fantasy disguised as faith. If anything here is "evil," it's the deception of that disguise.

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly View Post
2 Tim.4:3-4, "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."

Therefore, the "tastelessness" is because "faith-based reasoning" is lacking the allure to evil cogitations/wrong thinking.

Context. Acknowledging scientific fact isn't "wrong thinking," nor is it "evil." The tastelessness is due to the utter vapidity of your posts. You're simply not engaging in faith-based reasoning. You're not engaging in reasoning of any kind. You're engaging in fantasy disguised as faith. If anything here is "evil," it's the deception of that disguise.

Well did Jesus say, (Matt.7:15), "Beware of false prophets(one who speaks for, a spokes-person) which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
That which is counter to the Scriptures isn't---fact.

Add Paul's (2Tim.3:1-5) to the above, "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. "

Your so-called "faith based reasoning" is compromising with evil/wickedness which is contrary to the truths of the Creator GOD.

 

[sincerly]

You dont have the intellect to back that statement or comprehend what your saying nor the credibility to discuss this like an adult.

I see you are back to falsely attacking the messenger rather than acknowledging the admitted lack of "details".

 

[outhouse]

than acknowledging the admitted lack of "details".

You do not have the intellect to debate much of anything that deals with history or science. You do not use logic or reason.

There are missing details from evolution, but it has been observed, and is fact.

JUST LIKE GRAVITY, details are missing but the apple falls to the ground.

 

[outhouse]

NO amount of education and knowledge will change your mind no matter how credible it is.

Quit being a educational terrrorist.

 

[sojourner]

That which is counter to the Scriptures isn't---fact.

This ^^^ is the "wolf in sheep's clothing" you mentioned.

Your so-called "faith based reasoning" is compromising with evil/wickedness which is contrary to the truths of the Creator GOD.

I doubt you'd know "the truths of the Creator" if they jumped up and bit you in the butt. Proof? Evolution is a truth of creation. You don't recognize it, even though it has jumped up and bit you in the butt.

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly View Post
than acknowledging the admitted lack of "details".

You do not have the intellect to debate much of anything that deals with history or science. You do not use logic or reason.

There are missing details from evolution, but it has been observed, and is fact.

JUST LIKE GRAVITY, details are missing but the apple falls to the ground.

The evolutionary changes that those "details" should have shown in the progression from the Spontaneously produced life-form(microbe)from those Elements produced from "nothing" Has not been observed. Therefore, is still a "theorized fact"./claimed, but NOT Actual.

John1:1-3,14, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.... And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 

[metis]

The evolutionary changes that those "details" should have shown in the progression from the Spontaneously produced life-form(microbe)from those Elements produced from "nothing" Has not been observed. Therefore, is still a "theorized fact"./claimed, but NOT Actual.

First of all, the ToE doesn't establish how life may have started since there are various hypotheses. Secondly, quantum physicists do not generally believe that something came from nothing. Thirdly, the evolution of organisms has been observed, plus it's just plane old common sense since everything material tends to change over time.

 

[sincerly]

NO amount of education and knowledge will change your mind no matter how credible it is.

Quit being a educational terrrorist.

Since these are scriptural debates, and the Scriptures declare the truths of the Creator GOD, then the "terrorist" are those who contradict the truths of the Scriptures. Contrary secular beliefs/teachings are not credible/just blindly accepted as "fact".

Right! Information contrary to GOD'S Word is not credible. A little falseness renders the whole false.

 

[metis]

Pretty much every religion in the world tends to declare its beliefs as being the "truth".

 

[sincerly]

That which is counter to the Scriptures isn't---fact.

This ^^^ is the "wolf in sheep's clothing" you mentioned.

You demonstrated the "counter to Scriptures" wolf nicely.

Your so-called "faith based reasoning" is compromising with evil/wickedness which is contrary to the truths of the Creator GOD.

I doubt you'd know "the truths of the Creator" if they jumped up and bit you in the butt. Proof? Evolution is a truth of creation. You don't recognize it, even though it has jumped up and bit you in the butt.

When GOD created all things, they were complete, They did not need any "evolving" to another step/stage/level/etc.