Give me a good reason for not leaving RF

[Yazata]

So please give me a honest reason why I should stay.

I'm not sure that I can, Conscious Thoughts. Just this morning I was thinking about abandoning the board myself.

About all that I can say with regards to you is that you have always seemed like one of the smartest, most thoughtful and (dare I say it) most spiritual people here. There's a depth, quality and centeredness to your posts that I appreciate and that I find helpful in my own journey.

In a word, you are one of the reasons why I keep coming back.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I am fully up for discussion, also with non belivers,actually some of them are very nice to discuss with. But it is a few who cant seem to leave a beliver have their belief.

Perhaps you haven't noticed how often the non-believers are told -- right here in RF -- how wrong they are for not believing, and often enough what the dire cosequences are likely to be.

Perhaps you haven't noticed how often you yourself have asked questions about God in a way that makes explicit your belief in God's existence ("Can we see God," or "How well do you know God," and many other threads). And when you ask such questions, why would an atheist not try to answer you as honestly as they can, from their own point of view? After all, it's the only point of view they've got.

Have you tried, I mean seriously tried, to understand when they explain to you how they come to disbelieve in any gods, or how they come to dislike what many God believers do unto others in the name of their belief? And some of that is very, very real. I am reminded that the Taliban are very resurgent in Afghanistan at the moment, and a lot of Afghans should be very, very frightened of having their heads removed, or being shot to death for being female without being fully covered. Or that religious believers around the world are still mounting campaigns against people who just happen to be LGBT, something they have no choice about.

Maybe you are thinking about leaving because you'd rather just hold onto your own belief, without being reminded that there may well be downsides to uncritical belief. Because some of that is what we discuss here. You would not be the first person who, when being told unpleasant truths, stick their fingers in their ears and sing "tra-la-la, I can't hear you." I'll admit, that can be more comfortable sometimes.

In the end, you will do what you wish to do. I can't give you reasons to stay or go, only you can do that, and only for yourself. I'd prefer you stay, because the more voices there are in the discussion, the more views can be aired, and the more we all learn.

 

[wandering peacefully]

Right now i am in a time of pondering what RF really mean to me, of course all the good discussion with friendly outcome is a pleasant excange, and i have some very good friends in here, And this is keeping me in RF right now.

As most if not all already know, i do not have anything against Atheists who want to discuss,but to be brutally honest, all the negativity toward God or other deities that are spoken about in RF, It has come to a point where i no longer feel a need to defend my own belief, and when this is spoken about in threads, this become seen as negative. Maybe it is no fun for people to not discuss the same topic about God vs No God anymore when the believer stop defending their belief.?

To me RF has been a free area where i can speak openly and with no worries, but this is no longer how i see it.
It is more of a pain to come in to RF this days. and RF has become more and more boring place to be.

So please give me a honest reason why I should stay.

Looking at your list of reasons why you don't enjoy being here anymore, I'd say it is time for you to look into more beneficial ways to spend you time.

If you have to ask other people if you are wasting your short life on this planet, I'd guess the answer is yes. Go look for your God out in the real world.

Thanks for some interesting topics. Enjoy real life.

 

[Deeje]

So please give me a honest reason why I should stay.

Like many of us with beliefs that tend to ruffle the feathers of the 'unbelievers', you stand out as a man of principle and integrity and many of us admire your faith and commitment....even if we disagree with your beliefs. I personally admire your gentle and caring nature.

If you enjoy some exchanges but not the ones that devalue or ridicule your commitment, then I can recommend the "ignore" function. Those posters who just want to fight and demean those who have an honest belief in a higher Being are not worth the angst they cause by their shortsightedness and lack of empathy. We are all just humans here learning and evaluating the beliefs of others, which in turn either reinforces our own beliefs or leads to a change in our thinking. People undergo transitions here as I have observed over the years.....some change their "religion" quite frequently as they try on new ideas and abandon old ones. Others cannot settle as they continue their search. We are all just a "work in progress".....

Perhaps just talk to those who make you feel like a worthwhile human being, instead of a worthless believer whose intellect and beliefs they question. God does not care about how intelligent we are, but about the content of our heart and a genuine desire to search for the truth. I see you as one of those searchers.

Don't leave us CT....we need people like you here.

 

[Deidre]

When remaining on a forum turns into a drudgery, just take a time out. I don’t think it’s healthy anyway to spend too much time online, even on social media. I used to do that and I felt overwhelmed at times so I can understand your angst. Also, your beliefs are your own, and they’re your own when you log in or out. Remember that.

 

[Truthseeker]

Right now i am in a time of pondering what RF really mean to me, of course all the good discussion with friendly outcome is a pleasant excange, and i have some very good friends in here, And this is keeping me in RF right now.

As most if not all already know, i do not have anything against Atheists who want to discuss,but to be brutally honest, all the negativity toward God or other deities that are spoken about in RF, It has come to a point where i no longer feel a need to defend my own belief, and when this is spoken about in threads, this become seen as negative. Maybe it is no fun for people to not discuss the same topic about God vs No God anymore when the believer stop defending their belief.?

To me RF has been a free area where i can speak openly and with no worries, but this is no longer how i see it.
It is more of a pain to come in to RF this days. and RF has become more and more boring place to be.

So please give me a honest reason why I should stay.

It's hard, this forum is about debate, not discussion for the most part. The religious discussion section is inactive compared to the religious debate section.

Yes, if you don't reply in a debate, sometimes it seems to those on the other side that you are conceding what they are saying. I reply more than I used to because of that. I would advise you to make some reply, being friendly and humble without conceding. I'm afraid the last couple of days I've not done a good job of that, being friendly and humble I mean. I've slipped. It's easy to slip in a place like this for me. I don't if I am really addressing your problem properly.

I don't find it boring here, I find it frustrating with some people. I have found it hard to find people with a listening ear. I've already said this a place people like to debate. They want to win, not listen. You are not one of those who don't listen. So for people like me who want some people with a listening ear, I ask you to stay.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Pick your sub-forums.

Definitely a good solution. That's what they are there for I would think.

Some just post in DIRs or Journals continually.

 

[Twilight Hue]

When remaining on a forum turns into a drudgery, just take a time out. I don’t think it’s healthy anyway to spend too much time online, even on social media. I used to do that and I felt overwhelmed at times so I can understand your angst. Also, your beliefs are your own, and they’re your own when you log in or out. Remember that.

Another thing is you get cloistered and disconnected. So involved in social media and its easy to get out of touch with reality.

The world becomes a screen of words and concepts instead of what's going on outside the building.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Definitely a good solution. That's what they are there for I would think.

Some just post in DIRs or Journals continually.

One of the reasons I've stressed about Debating in this thread is that I have my concerns some theists may not know an adequate amount about debate, or not try to, then will try to discuss things with atheists, in the debate forum, and the particular atheists they discuss things with, are seasoned debaters who understand many intellectual subjects. Without properly understanding the nuances of debating, debating some people here is like trying to play a Board Game without reading the instructions of the game.

 

[Truthseeker]

You see, in some of these debates, a lot of atheists understand logic very well

In a lot of atheists, I don't find much reasonable debate. They just want to win, and will say anything to win, at least that's my perception. They may understand logic, but do they use it? All this could be said of belevers also, though. There are not very many people that want to learn from someone else, especially here. People come here to influence others mostly.

I include myself in that in all honesty. I could learn things here, but I am a person who prefers to study religions on their own, without opinion being foist on me by others. I am a loner at heart.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

In a lot of atheists, I don't find much reasonable debate. They just want to win, and will say anything to win, at least that's my perception.

The way I've understood it, and it's probably wrong, but I saw Discussions more for learning and sharing ideas, and Debates more like a game where, besides the discussion aspect, winning can be pretty important.

 

[Twilight Hue]

One of the reasons I've stressed about Debating in this thread is that I have my concerns some theists may not know an adequate amount about debate, or not try to, then will try to discuss things with atheists, in the debate forum, and the particular atheists they discuss things with, are seasoned debaters who understand many intellectual subjects. Without properly understanding the nuances of debating, debating some people here is like trying to play a Board Game without reading the instructions of the game.

Debating used to upset me all the time.

Bothering me so much I wanted to run away then it occurred one day that it was the debate that refines you and makes the psychological mind stronger.

Now I'm a real stinker with attitude! *grin*

Seriously there is a difference between formal debate and the free for all here. One is much more academic and studied like peer review and the other is .....

I think ones fear of engagement, mental or physical, is a reflection and guide not of your opponents that you meet, but of yourself in equal measure.

That's the vibe I pick up from @Conscious thoughts here on numerous occasions. There no right or wrong here, but ones own worse enemy can be your own mind. Going the way of the crucible is one way of remediation to overcome that type of apprehension. I know because I went through the very same thing myself.

 

[Truthseeker]

My own belief and practice is not what i worry about My belief in Allah is very solid. Just that it seems like some dont want to accept that since they can not get the evidence they want given to them

To be a believer is not an easy road for sure. and i do crash landing a bit often my self.

This kind of humility and honesty is what I like.

 

[Truthseeker]

Maybe you are thinking about leaving because you'd rather just hold onto your own belief, without being reminded that there may well be downsides to uncritical belief. Because some of that is what we discuss here. You would not be the first person who, when being told unpleasant truths, stick their fingers in their ears and sing "tra-la-la, I can't hear you." I'll admit, that can be more comfortable sometimes.

This is unfair, that is not what is going on here. I don't think you are listening to what he is saying. That kind of attitude is just what is driving him out from here.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Definitely a good solution. That's what they are there for I would think.

Some just post in DIRs or Journals continually.

For those of us who don’t have an IR, the DIRs present a bit of a quandary. I look at them sometimes. I’d feel like an imposter joining any of them, and there isn’t one for agnostic Christian theosophists with an interest in Dharmic perspectives.

Perhaps, as a Sufi, @Conscious thoughts feels the same?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

This is unfair, that is not what is going on here. I don't think you are listening to what he is saying. That kind of attitude is just what is driving him out from here.

On the contrary, I listen to @Conscious thoughts quite carefully. I read all of his posts, and have replied to many. I always try to do so thoughtfully and honestly. In this instance, he is talking about "negativity," but when talking about beliefs, there can be no question that not sharing a particular set of beliefs is taking a negative position with respect to those beliefs. To debate them requires (or ought to, in a good debate) giving reasons either against the belief in question, or for the contrary belief. And while that can seem negative to one who is sensitive, that's not generally the purpose.

Better to stay away from debates, if one is not disposed to like hearing contrary positions.

 

[F1fan]

In a lot of atheists, I don't find much reasonable debate. They just want to win, and will say anything to win, at least that's my perception. They may understand logic, but do they use it? All this could be said of belevers also, though.

That would be a good topic. You're accusing atheists of just wanting to win and will say anything. Is that true? Or are you bluffing because it eases the burden of proof theists have?

There are not very many people that want to learn from someone else, especially here. People come here to influence others mostly.

I suggest atheists here are offer something very valuable to learn and there is resistance.

 

[F1fan]

On the contrary, I listen to @Conscious thoughts quite carefully. I read all of his posts, and have replied to many. I always try to do so thoughtfully and honestly. In this instance, he is talking about "negativity," but when talking about beliefs, there can be no question that not sharing a particular set of beliefs is taking a negative position with respect to those beliefs. To debate them requires (or ought to, in a good debate) giving reasons either against the belief in question, or for the contrary belief. And while that can seem negative to one who is sensitive, that's not generally the purpose.

Better to stay away from debates, if one is not disposed to like hearing contrary positions.

It's apparent that some theists are looking for more fellowship experiences, or religious to religious debate (where certain assumptions are accepted). Atheists can be brutally blunt and go straight for pointing out how assuming a God exists is the weak basis for belief. This process is the evolution of ideas, and some cannot compete in the environment of reason.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

It's apparent that some theists are looking for more fellowship experiences, or religious to religious debate (where certain assumptions are accepted).

I think that may be true. Honestly, I'd say if we had more boards for theist-only and more boards for atheist-only, it could help the interactions we do have that are atheist/theist in which we talk in the normal debates. But I'm just speaking in theory, here. Sometimes things pan out differently in reality than in theory. But my idea would be a theist-only DIR, and to make things fair, I think atheists should get a similar feature request of theirs granted too, even if the pre-existing non-theist DIR already comes close to a theist DIR but for atheists. But that's just how I feel.

 

[JustGeorge]

I find it interesting that given the nature of this thread, people still can't hold back from debating.

I think that may be true. Honestly, I'd say if we had more boards for theist-only and more boards for atheist-only, it could help the interactions we do have that are atheist/theist in which we talk in the normal debates. But I'm just speaking in theory, here. Sometimes things pan out differently in reality than in theory. But my idea would be a theist-only DIR, and to make things fair, I think atheists should get a similar feature request of theirs granted too, even if the pre-existing non-theist DIR already comes close to a theist DIR but for atheists. But that's just how I feel.

There are theist only and atheist only private forums here.