Global Warming | Fact or Fiction?

[Trey of Diamonds]

To be fair, the 70's were a rough time... Most nations had governments that didn't have any real experience in governing.

No, the 70s were the good times for Algeria. The infrastructure lasted a couple more decades and fell apart in the 90s. My father returned to Algeria in the 90s and it was in really bad shape. Electricity and running water was no longer a given. Communities had broken down into separate political rivals with a warlord over each and the government stealing every dollar it could get its hand on. Sad considering what it was like in the 70s.

 

[painted wolf]

No, the 70s were the good times for Algeria. The infrastructure lasted a couple more decades and fell apart in the 90s. My father returned to Algeria in the 90s and it was in really bad shape. Electricity and running water was no longer a given. Communities had broken down into separate political rivals with a warlord over each and the government stealing every dollar it could get its hand on. Sad considering what it was like in the 70s.

Weren't they just coming out of some significant political strife and engaged in war (or near war) with Morocco during the early part of the 70's... with a rather oppressive single party dictatorship?

Apparently things really started to fall apart when the oil money dried up in the 80's... at least from what I've heard. But yeah the 90's up until now were really rough.

But, there is some hope for the future. Certainly not all of Africa is Algeria. Every nation has their problems... but in general Africa seems to be starting to recover from the horror that was the 1990's-2000's.
The people don't seem to be taking dictators bull any more and that has to count for something anyway.

wa:do

but I'm far from an expert on African socio-politics.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Weren't they just coming out of some significant political strife and engaged in war (or near war) with Morocco during the early part of the 70's... with a rather oppressive single party dictatorship?

Apparently things really started to fall apart when the oil money dried up in the 80's... at least from what I've heard. But yeah the 90's up until now were really rough.

But, there is some hope for the future. Certainly not all of Africa is Algeria. Every nation has their problems... but in general Africa seems to be starting to recover from the horror that was the 1990's-2000's.
The people don't seem to be taking dictators bull any more and that has to count for something anyway.

wa:do

but I'm far from an expert on African socio-politics.

I use Algeria as an example because its the country I have actual personal experience with. I lived there for 2 years when I was 11 and 12. It was safe for westerners to bring there families to the country and live while they worked. My father helped build the LNG plant on the coast for Sonatrak. He later returned to help repair the plant in the 90s and got a first hand view of the change. Some of the locals remembered him and he had some interesting chats with them on what was going on.

My father has also worked in Guinea and Equatorial Guinea as well. In the 70s we visited Kenya as well. A lot of change can happen in 30 years. Currently the Europeans are all over Africa trying to convince them that a European Union style government is what would work best for them and I worry about the results. After all, the European Union is hardly what I would hold up as an example of political and economic stability.

 

[painted wolf]

I use Algeria as an example because its the country I have actual personal experience with. I lived there for 2 years when I was 11 and 12. It was safe for westerners to bring there families to the country and live while they worked. My father helped build the LNG plant on the coast for Sonatrak. He later returned to help repair the plant in the 90s and got a first hand view of the change. Some of the locals remembered him and he had some interesting chats with them on what was going on.

My father has also worked in Guinea and Equatorial Guinea as well. In the 70s we visited Kenya as well. A lot of change can happen in 30 years. Currently the Europeans are all over Africa trying to convince them that a European Union style government is what would work best for them and I worry about the results. After all, the European Union is hardly what I would hold up as an example of political and economic stability.

Well, if Africa can implement a similar system while learning from the EU's mistakes (it is still very much an experiment in action) it may work out well for them. The African Union has been becoming more than a paper tiger and actually starting to exert some power in the region.

Time will tell. But if I don't have some hope, then I'd cry. Africa has been poorly treated and abused for too long.

wa:do

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Well, if Africa can implement a similar system while learning from the EU's mistakes (it is still very much an experiment in action) it may work out well for them. The African Union has been becoming more than a paper tiger and actually starting to exert some power in the region.

Time will tell. But if I don't have some hope, then I'd cry. Africa has been poorly treated and abused for too long.

wa:do

Agreed. I tend, to expect the worst and hope for the best in that order. People keep telling me I'm cynical but I'm not sure why.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Well? Are you convinced yet?

Official: More in US convinced of climate change

Increasingly common experiences with extreme climate-related events such as the Colorado wildfires, a record warm spring and preseason hurricanes have convinced many Americans climate change is a reality, the head of a U.S. scientific agency said Friday.

Many Americans had previously seen climate change as a "nebulous concept" removed from them in time and geography, said National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration chief Jane Lubchenco.

"Many people around the world are beginning to appreciate that climate change is under way, that it's having consequences that are playing out in real time and, in the United States at least, we are seeing more and more examples of extreme weather and extreme climate-related events," Lubchenco told a university forum in the Australian capital of Canberra.

"People's perceptions in the United States at least are in many cases beginning to change as they experience something first-hand that they at least think is directly attributable to climate change," she said.

Among the extreme events, she noted record-breaking wildfires in the West in the past two years, including in Colorado, where blazes recently damaged or destroyed nearly 350 homes and killed two people.

Last spring was the warmest in the Unites States since 1895, when records were first kept. For only the third time since hurricane records started in 1851, two hurricanes formed over the North Atlantic before the season officially began June 1.

 

[painted wolf]

It's "funny" how people will refuse to believe something until it destroys their house.

"Flood zone"... pfft... there hasn't been a flood here in generations. Besides we have a levy system so it'll never happen. :sarcastic

wa:do

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

It's "funny" how people will refuse to believe something until it destroys their house.

"Flood zone"... pfft... there hasn't been a flood here in generations. Besides we have a levy system so it'll never happen. :sarcastic

wa:do

[youtube]wEKkJHSO8A0[/youtube]
Led Zeppelin - When The Levee Breaks (Studio Version - Best Quality) - YouTube

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

This summer is 'what global warming looks like'

"This is what global warming looks like at the regional or personal level," said Jonathan Overpeck, professor of geosciences and atmospheric sciences at the University of Arizona. "The extra heat increases the odds of worse heat waves, droughts, storms and wildfire. This is certainly what I and many other climate scientists have been warning about."

Hey, if Fox News said it, it must be true right? Time to break out the old Doors album.

[youtube]ZDN9y2vTdUs[/youtube]
The Doors - The End (1967) - YouTube

 

[painted wolf]

As a New England native all I can say is... I'm going to miss Maple Syrup. :sad4:

It's a minor thing... but it certainly gets the local population thinking about the real world local implications of the issue. Rather than global abstractions.

wa:do

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

January to June 2012 warmest first half of any year on record

The average temperature during that period was at 52.9 degrees F, which is 4.5 degrees above the typical average. Twenty-eight states east of the Rockys were had record warm temperatures, with an additional 15 states in the top 10 for warm temperatures. Every state across the contiguous U.S. had warmer than average temperatures, except Washington.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

woohoo! 100 voters!

80% believe that not only is Global Warming happening, but humanity is either partly or mostly to blame.

What does that mean to you?

 

[Alceste]

woohoo! 100 voters!

80% believe that not only is Global Warming happening, but humanity is either partly or mostly to blame.

What does that mean to you?

It means RF members are better educated than politicians.

 

[painted wolf]

It means RF members are better educated than politicians.

And from places other than the USA.

wa:do

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Concerning the other 20%, which do you fear most, those who believe their is no human connection to Global Warming or those who think that only humanity is at fault for Global Warming? I find both extremes to be scary and potentially dangerous.

 

[Alceste]

Concerning the other 20%, which do you fear most, those who believe their is no human connection to Global Warming or those who think that only humanity is at fault for Global Warming? I find both extremes to be scary and potentially dangerous.

I don't fear either position. I'm a pragmatist. Those who don't believe it is happening at all are the biggest impediment to taking any meaningful steps to mitigate the impact or slow the warming. So they are the biggest pain in our collective ****. Those who believe it is happening will generally tend to cooperate with efforts to adapt, so it didn't really matter how much they believe human activity contributes.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I don't fear either position. I'm a pragmatist. Those who don't believe it is happening at all are the biggest impediment to taking any meaningful steps to mitigate the impact or slow the warming. So they are the biggest pain in our collective ****. Those who believe it is happening will generally tend to cooperate with efforts to adapt, so it didn't really matter how much they believe human activity contributes.

Unless they are actively trying to stop those who are working to fix the problem.

 

[painted wolf]

Concerning the other 20%, which do you fear most, those who believe their is no human connection to Global Warming or those who think that only humanity is at fault for Global Warming? I find both extremes to be scary and potentially dangerous.

Neither as both of those groups can be talked into actively working toward mitigation and adaptation.

The ones that concern me are the ones that deny it outright or refuse to see any cause for concern.

Everyone else can be worked with.

wa:do

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

Neither as both of those groups can be talked into actively working toward mitigation and adaptation.

The ones that concern me are the ones that deny it outright or refuse to see any cause for concern.

Everyone else can be worked with.

wa:do

For me it's those who see it as a good thing. Warmer days? More CO2? What more could we ask for? Nor is this just a view promoted by Dennis Avery and son. From the show "King of Queens": "Whatever happened to that global warming I heard so much about? I had such high hopes for that."

 

[painted wolf]

For me it's those who see it as a good thing. Warmer days? More CO2? What more could we ask for? Nor is this just a view promoted by Dennis Avery and son. From the show "King of Queens": "Whatever happened to that global warming I heard so much about? I had such high hopes for that."

Yeah... I had forgotten about those guys.

wa:do