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Global warming

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Environment dictates nothing.
. . .

Yes, because all the goods and services of the economy appear out of thin air, apparently. They don't come from anywhere, a human just snaps their fingers and then some goods and services magically appear.

Riiiight.

So the next time I drive through a farm field, I'll know that the food I eat didn't come from that farm or our planet earth (an environment) but just .... magically appeared. Okay. Magic. Got it.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
You can believe what you want. The Jews ✡️ are God's chosen people. It was Jew that invented the nuclear bomb. It was also a Jew that invented a vaccine against polio. Jews owned most if not all of Hollywood in the 1930s and the 1940s. Jews owned the largest investment banking firm in America and probably in the world. The world's wealthiest investment banking family at one time was the Jewish Rothchilds ✡️. Who grew up in a poor ghetto in Germany. I could go on, but I guess you get the picture.
The Jews ✡️ are supposed to be a blessing to all the nations, unfortunately all the nations have not been a blessing to the Jewish people.
Shalom
No, it was not "Jews that invented the nuclear bomb". It was a whole team of scientists. Yes, there were Jews on that team, Do you remember Feynman whom I mentioned earlier? He was one of them. I am not going to go over all of the scientists involved, right now I can only think of Oppenheimer, also Jewish, and Fermi, definitely not Jewish. In fact he is Roman Catholic. You are sounding as silly as Christian creationists that try to claim that science is a Christian invention. The sciences do not care about religious beliefs at all. Yes, at one point there was a very high percentage of the top scientists of the world that were Jewish. Now most of the top scientists of the world are atheists. That does not mean that science now belongs to the atheists.

By the way, you claim to be an engineer. Engineering is often a very nerdly occupation and getting the basic facts right is something that engineers tend to want to do. That is why I am so confused about your fear to even discuss the basics of AGW.
 

Laniakea

Not of this world
Nuclear fusion may not be feasible. I am not opposing future research, but until working plants can be built we need to concentrate on what does work. Solar and wind do work. Nuclear fission does work, though there is a very strong prejudice against it. Nuclear fission may be the "greenest" of all sources of energy since a single plant can generate huge amounts of energy. The waste is manageable. Though it may take the federal government to force certain areas to allow the storage of waste material. Or they could offer to pay various sites to store materials. Given enough money they could put it in my back yard.
Storing it is one matter, but securing it is another. There are people who would like to get their hands on it to do bad things.
 

Koberstein

*Banned*
. . .

Yes, because all the goods and services of the economy appear out of thin air, apparently. They don't come from anywhere, a human just snaps their fingers and then some goods and services magically appear.

Riiiight.

So the next time I drive through a farm field, I'll know that the food I eat didn't come from that farm or our planet earth (an environment) but just .... magically appeared. Okay. Magic. Got it.
Wow your a strange one. Goods and services do not appear out of thin air. Free market capitalism makes it possible. If you want more of something you subsidize it. And if you want less of something you tax it.
Capital and innovation makes farming work.
The cost of capital determines what you will pay for your food, goods, and services. That's what Karl Marx failed to understand, so you are not alone in that regard.
Shalom
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I don't try to justify hoaxes.
What I was pointing out was that far more people would die from heat if we didn't have what we have now--and have had for the past 60 or 70 years (air conditioning, vehicles that keep us from exerting ourselves in the heat, and yet get us where we need to go). People seem to forget about how much better off we are since the beginning of the industrial age. Life spans are much longer now.
I understand your point, but aren't we destroying the goose that lays the golden eggs? Overused resources create a momentary prosperity, but a crash follows. They also create a population boom, which accelerates the resource depletion.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Wow your a strange one. Goods and services do not appear out of thin air. Free market capitalism makes it possible. If you want more of something you subsidize it. And if you want less of something you tax it.
Capital and innovation makes farming work.
The cost of capital determines what you will pay for your food, goods, and services. That's what Karl Marx failed to understand, so you are not alone in that regard.
Shalom
Unregulated, "free" capitalism exploits, and sees 'services' as unproductive costs.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
It seems an expensive, difficult to implement and potentially hazardous energy source, given the currently developing alternatives.
It is amazing that there is so much of an irrational negative reaction to solar and wind. The levelized cost of those two sources make them the two cheapest sources of energy out there. All I see are petty or rather ignorant objections. The one problem with them is the time that it takes to set up the various wind farms or solar power plants. That is the main reason that Texas's instant reaction to their Ted Cruz I am going to Cabo power crisis was of building more gas powered plants. One can build those rather quickly. But their power is at least twice that of green alternatives. They needed a solution "now".
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
There is only so much fossil fuel in the ground.
We won't run out because as the supply dwindles,
more difficult sources will be mined at greater cost.
As costs rise, alternatives become more economical.
Mineral oil will be phased out.
So we'll run out of oil.....while not running out of it.
 

Pete in Panama

Well-Known Member
One good thing is we will run out of oil around 2050 so then it’ll cut way back on greenhouse gases so the Earth will begin to repair itself. Sweet.
You're in good company as there are a lot of "running out of oil" folks around. Somehow, the idea sounds pretty goofy given that we've gone so long (going on two centuries now) w/ oil getting easier and easier to mine, and we still got no shortages/pricehikes.

Have you considered any of that?
 

Pete in Panama

Well-Known Member
There is only so much fossil fuel in the ground.
We won't run out because as the supply dwindles,
more difficult sources will be mined at greater cost.
As costs rise, alternatives become more economical.
Mineral oil will be phased out.
So we'll run out of oil.....while not running out of it.
--and shortages/pricehikes haven't happened yet and they show no sign of beginning. I'm just not seeing the "supply dwindles, more difficult sources" any where near to be happening yet.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
--and shortages/pricehikes haven't happened yet and they show no sign of beginning. I'm just not seeing the "supply dwindles, more difficult sources" any where near to be happening yet.
That is because it is a slow process. If you are old enough you will remember gas wars. Where rivaling gas stations would see which one could have the lowest price. Oil prices are often a leading cause of inflation. That means that in the period between where they raised their prices and everything else climbs up to that level they made extra profits for a while.
 

Jimmy

King Phenomenon
You're in good company as there are a lot of "running out of oil" folks around. Somehow, the idea sounds pretty goofy given that we've gone so long (going on two centuries now) w/ oil getting easier and easier to mine, and we still got no shortages/pricehikes.

Have you considered any of that?
Reserves are proven to run out in 50 years.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
If people didn't use oil to power their cars and air conditioners, more people actually would die from the heat.
Our home is air conditioned from the power we harvest from our roof.
Oh, now you're some kind of prophet? Leftists have tried to scare people with that sort of disinformation since the 70s. None of it came to pass, so they just keep saying, "Well, maybe in another 20 years....."
Global warming is here already. Turn on the news some time if extreme weather hasn't already arrived where you live. It hit us for the first time this year with a six- or eight-week heat wave (mid- to high nineties Fahrenheit) that just ended. Fortunately, we had air conditioning, which we ran for free.
"Climate Refugee" is just another Left Wing buzzword to put a positive spin on illegal immigration.
My understanding is that much of the southern border problem is due to both political and climate refugees coming north through Mexico: https://www.caf.com/en/currently/news/2023/12/climate-change-worsens-the-migration-crisis-in-latin-america-and-the-caribbean/#:~:text=By 2050, the most pessimistic,Caribbean, according to the WMO.
Fossil fuels ... have a proven track record since the invention of the automobile.
And now they've been proven to contribute to AGW.

It doesn't matter at all that you don't believe the science or that you argue against it. Somebody has to be stuck with property that they can't insure, and which gets blown or burned down, and those will be the people who are last to get on board and embrace the new reality.

If you live where you're now seeing extreme weather, there's still time to relocate and get full or near full value. The people who figure it out just before the last wave will likely still be able to resell to those still resisting reality, but probably at a loss.

The future is clear to those with eyes. Certain areas are already becoming relatively uninhabitable. Home insurance rates are going up in those areas, especially those prone to fire, tornadoes and hurricanes (blizzards and floods are more forgiving to standing structures)
Once all the automobiles stop, the deterioration will stop, and the ozone will begin to heal itself. It may take a long time.
As @Subduction Zone mentioned, that's a different problem. We can divide pollutants into two categories. First, we have the pollutants that make the air unhealthy to breath, the water unhealthy to drink and for aquatic life to thrive, and those that pollute the soil. Call them dirty pollutants. Smog in big cities falls here. So did atmospheric lead before unleaded gasoline

Then we have the substances like the chlorofluorocarbons that burned a hole in the ozone layer allowing harmful (mutagenic) radiation through to the earth's surface, and greenhouse gases that are trapping heat in the atmosphere and oceans. They're also pollutants, but unlike toxins, they affect life indirectly rather than by getting into our bodies.
Restrict non essential? I smell war. It’s not going to be a pretty picture of a nice slow down of using resources.
You're referring to fossil fuels now, but one of the predictions with global warming is war and other violence: https://www.npr.org/2021/10/26/1049...-having-a-negative-impact-on-national-securit
Solar and wind do not work reliably.
Our home has been mostly powered by the sun for thirteen years now. We still burn some propane, but no longer use it to heat water (showers, dishwasher, clothes washer), just to cook (stovetop and barbecue grills). All of that paid for itself after 6-7 years, and our electricity has been free since. Even a climate denier might like free power.
I think my patents with Caterpillar and my engineering degrees speaks volumes for themselves over someone's novice idea about global warming.
Not here they don't. Your only credentials on RF are your posts. You've already demonstrated your level of understanding about global warming. I guess that you're probably not also a flat earther giving your rotating marshmallow comment, so you've got that going for you. But will you come over sooner or later? It will be one of those.

Unless your degree in engineering is like the one Mexico's new president has*, engineering doesn't raise you above "novice" regarding global warming. Showing an understanding of the relevant science would.

*"A scientist by profession, [Claudia] Sheinbaum received her Doctor of Philosophy in energy engineering from the National Autonomous University of Mexico. She has authored over 100 articles and two books on energy, the environment, and sustainable development. She contributed to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and in 2018 was named one of the BBC's 100 Women."
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
--and shortages/pricehikes haven't happened yet and they show no sign of beginning. I'm just not seeing the "supply dwindles, more difficult sources" any where near to be happening yet.
Do you disagree that there is a limited amount
beneath the Earth's surface? If so, how would
it be replenished?
 

Koberstein

*Banned*
You're in good company as there are a lot of "running out of oil" folks around. Somehow, the idea sounds pretty goofy given that we've gone so long (going on two centuries now) w/ oil getting easier and easier to mine, and we still got no shortages/pricehikes.

Have you considered any of that?
Right on my friend. Let the fracking begin!
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
It is amazing that there is so much of an irrational negative reaction to solar and wind. The levelized cost of those two sources make them the two cheapest sources of energy out there. All I see are petty or rather ignorant objections. The one problem with them is the time that it takes to set up the various wind farms or solar power plants. That is the main reason that Texas's instant reaction to their Ted Cruz I am going to Cabo power crisis was of building more gas powered plants. One can build those rather quickly. But their power is at least twice that of green alternatives. They needed a solution "now".
Two good sources of renewable energy are tides and the electrochemical potential between fresh and salt water or where rivers meet the oceans. Tides are very reliable. One passive way to tap into this power source is to have floating islands, that passively rise with the tides, and as the tide goes out, the weight of the island turns a number of pillar generators to make electricity. As the tide comes in, the lifting of the island can also make electricity and store the extra potential energy in the lift.

The other; using salt and fresh water, is already in development using a battery that you flush with the two water streams to generate electricity.
River water and salty ocean water used to generate electricity.

Solar is good, but it does not work everywhere as well. It tends to be seasonal; best in summer, and day but not night dependent, with home size batteries still too expensive to store the extra from peak times to be used in needy times. One still needs supplemental electricity that comes from fossil fuels, each night and other times of the year.

I remember, I did some energy research projects, as a Graduate Student, for the DOE, at one of the National Labs. One of the way discussed was to store the extra electricity from peak solar and green energy, into a large heavy spinning fly wheel. We can get the electricity back, when needed; night, by using the energy in the angular momentum. That idea was in the 1980's. Today there is a 20 megawatt system in operation.

World's Largest Flywheel Energy Storage System

A more modern approach would be to use excess solar and green energy to generate hydrogen gas. Hydrogen gas is portable and has very long term storage ability, that can be used for heat or in fuel cells to generate electricity; winter time. Hydrogen is the future. it allows us to replace batteries with hydrogen powered fuel cells that are smaller and pack more punch; best weight to energy ratio. One prototype hydrogen fuel cell electric car has a top speed of 220 mph, but can get 1000 miles per refill on eco-mode.

4-4.jpg
 

Koberstein

*Banned*
Two good sources of renewable energy are tides and the electrochemical potential between fresh and salt water or where rivers meet the oceans. Tides are very reliable. One passive way to tap into this power source is to have floating islands, that passively rise with the tides, and as the tide goes out, the weight of the island turns a number of pillar generators to make electricity. As the tide comes in, the lifting of the island can also make electricity and store the extra potential energy in the lift.

The other; using salt and fresh water, is already in development using a battery that you flush with the two water streams to generate electricity.
River water and salty ocean water used to generate electricity.

Solar is good, but it does not work everywhere as well. It tends to be seasonal; best in summer, and day but not night dependent, with home size batteries still too expensive to store the extra from peak times to be used in needy times. One still needs supplemental electricity that comes from fossil fuels, each night and other times of the year.

I remember, I did some energy research projects, as a Graduate Student, for the DOE, at one of the National Labs. One of the way discussed was to store the extra electricity from peak solar and green energy, into a large heavy spinning fly wheel. We can get the electricity back, when needed; night, by using the energy in the angular momentum. That idea was in the 1980's. Today there is a 20 megawatt system in operation.

World's Largest Flywheel Energy Storage System

A more modern approach would be to use excess solar and green energy to generate hydrogen gas. Hydrogen gas is portable and has very long term storage ability, that can be used for heat or in fuel cells to generate electricity; winter time. Hydrogen is the future. it allows us to replace batteries with hydrogen powered fuel cells that are smaller and pack more punch; best weight to energy ratio. One prototype hydrogen fuel cell electric car has a top speed of 220 mph, but can get 1000 miles per refill on eco-mode.

4-4.jpg
Hydrogen is extremely explosive. I think Toyota has given up on their hydrogen fuel cell venture. EV's are another black hole for money with no up side. I think the public has figured that out.
 
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