God’s Method of delivering messages, is it flawed?

[CG Didymus]

We do not seem to be in any trouble, so the view that Bible (and all other such books which people take as their scriptures) is fictional is true.

You might not be in trouble, but I still might be, because I think if this God is real... he's a jerk.

 

[CG Didymus]

God designed the vast majority of human beings so they could recognize His Messengers as evidenced by the fact that 84 percent of the world population has a faith and most of those faiths have a Messenger, holy man, or whatever you want to call him.

Easy for a Baha'i to say. But what if you were a Jew 2000 years ago and some guys Peter and John came up to you and said, "Hey, good day Madam. Did you know God loves you and sent his only begotten Son to die for you? But God raised him up from the dead and then he ascended into the clouds." Would you believe those guys or think they were crackpots?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Why don't you forget about him (God)? People who cannot decide get into problems. Krishna said:

"vyavasāya ātmikā buddhih, ekeha, Kuru-nandana;
bahu-śākhā hi anantāh ca, buddhayah avyavasāyinām"

Those who are on this path are resolute in purpose, and their aim is one. O beloved child of the Kurus (Arjuna); the intelligence of those who are irresolute is many-branched.

 

[CG Didymus]

You are confusing all the so-called "God's laws" with the man made "laws" in all of the religions/mythologies.

Men made up these silly to horrific "laws" to lie to people and make them do their bidding by falsely claiming they are from "god".

Yes. Baha'is say there has been a progression of new and better knowledge and laws of God. That in each age people should leave their old religion and follow the new religion of God. But then, they also say that each message was suited specifically to a people, a place, and a time, So the many different messages weren't really meant for all people in all cultures. Then how is that a progression of "new" knowledge? Were the people in India supposed to get rid of their many Hindu beliefs and adopt the Laws of Moses? Then the religions that did spread across several places and did replace the old religions of the people were forced on the people... like Christianity and Islam. And, since Islam was newer, was it supposed to replace Christianity? For the Baha'is yes, because they say Christianity had gotten off track by making Jesus into a God. They say Islam "corrected" that false belief.

But that means that Christians should have converted to Islam on their own without being forced. They should have recognized the truth in Muhammad's teachings and adopted the new laws from God. So maybe the early Mormons were the only Christians that were close to being right. They had multiple wives just like God wanted people to have.

Or... it's absolutely nuts to think that anyone else but the people themselves made their own laws for their own culture, for the good and the bad. Then said, "The Gods have decreed these laws. And thou shalt obey or The Gods will punish you forever and ever after you die. Oh, and The Gods have also decreed that we are in power and have the right to kill you if you don't obey. Then... after we kill you, The Gods will punish you even more.... forever and ever."

 

[Aupmanyav]

God has a design problem? Are you smarter than an all-knowing God?
Could you design humans better than God? What do I claim about God that isn't rational?

Did you not say that it was not humans who are to blame for not getting the messages of God?

Claim of existence of God /Allah is irrational since no evidence has ever been provided. Oh sure, humans can design the world better if it were not for the believers of God / Allah and their prophets / sons / messengers / manifestations / mahdis, who keep polluting the water.

Evolution / climate designs and will keep on designing humans (unless humans themselves interfere in designing. They cloned Dolly). Same is the case with prophets / sons / messengers / manifestations / mahdis. They have not ever given the slightest proof. Why should we accept any Tom, Dick or Harry who claims that he is carrying a message from God /Allah, when even the existence of God / Allah has not been established?

That in each age people should leave their old religion and follow the new religion of God.

Bahais themselves do not do it. I have pointed it out a hundred times that the latest in Abrahamic religions are the Ahmadiyyas, followers of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian, India, and that they should forthwith accept the new religion and message. But they do not do it. They are refusing a messenger of God / Allah. Their own leader, Bahaollah had said that this should never be done.

 

[CG Didymus]

Messengers of God are not ordinary people so they are not fallible.

And I ask again and again... Was Adam, Noah, Abraham and even Moses "infallible"? The Jews don't even make them anything more than ordinary men... And that's assuming they were even real and historical people.

Anyone can believe whatever they want to believe but that does not make it true. Normal people who claim to be in constant contact with God, some of whom would claim that God reached out to them are delusional,

Yes, and people do believe many spiritual and religious teachers. But in your religion God doesn't reach out to you? So if you feel the love of God in you and surrounding you, that is just your imagination? Damn Christians! They told me Jesus and the Holy Spirit lived in my heart... and that I can communicate and get answers from God through prayer and reading his Word. Damn liars!

No, the Messengers of God were not just normal people. Had they been normal people God would not have communicated to them.

Makes perfect Baha'i sense. God doesn't talk to normal people. If messengers were normal, which I guess means they were Abby normal, God wouldn't have talked to them. That's explains it so perfectly. But, Baha'is have that other type of prophet. The ones like Jeremiah and Amos and Paul, that God did speak to. So there is "normal" God will never talk to them. The prophet, who God gives them a little message to tell people. Then the Great and Mighty Manifestations... those perfect, infallible, special creations that can talk to and understand God. And they tell us to listen to them, because God has no way to communicate with us "normal" people in any other way but through them, the "special" ones the "not" normal people.

God does not want to reach out to people and speak to them personally. God sends Messengers to speak to us. If people do not like the Messengers, that is their problem. It is no skin off God’s nose.

I'm so glad that you cleared that up... again and again. Yes, we suck. We can't understand God. God has no way to communicate directly with us, because we are total idiots. He doesn't want to talk to us. He told his "Once in about every thousand year" "special" people contradictory messages to tell us. And if we don't like it... tough &^%#. Who the *#@$ are we to question God.

There is absolutely no reason why God should speak to anyone personally, even if they could understand Him, which they never could. Who do you think you are that the Almighty God, the Creator of the heavens and the earth, should speak to you personally?

No reason at all. We are flawed. We should just accept that. That our Perfect, All-loving Creator made us unable to communicate with him. And, since he made us unable to understand him, he has no reason why he should speak directly to us.

Please, you say you're here to defend Baha'u'llah against people like me that have a "vendetta" against the Baha'i Faith. That every time you defend him from the lies that people like me spread about the Baha'i Faith you get some special award from God? Are you sure? It doesn't sound like you're defending him very well. Unless you're trying to make God into a bigger jerk then the God that flooded the world and killed all the people and animals except those on the Ark.

Now that God was a jerk. He creates man. Tests him... as if God didn't know his numbskull of a creation wouldn't fail the test... which man did fail. So God, naturally, thought it best to curse man. Then when things got so bad God decided to drown them all. What a solution to his problem. Did it work? No. He left Noah and his family alive and they begatted a bunch of wayward, evil people just like the ones that God drowned.

Maybe it's time God should learn how to better communicate to his creation. Like maybe fixing the flawed receptors he put in our brains, and replacing them with ones that will allow us to hear him and understand him and know that he is real. But I know... it's "arrogant" to think that an All-knowing, All-loving Great One should listen to "normal" people... what the *&%# do we know?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It does "not" matter? No, it does matter. Is your guy, The Guy? Let's break it down.

I broke it down around 40 years ago CG and to you, I have offered all I have found.

To me it all points to Baha'u'llah. I do not know why you see it another way and I am not here to change you.

I have naught else to offer CG, but to say as America falls apart, just know that why it is, has already been offered.

In the history of Faiths, has the future been so vividly shown to us?

If a person chooses to read all of what Shoghi Effendi has offered from Baha'u'llah and Abdul'baha, as to what will happen, then it can be seen the future was foretold.

America will suffer greatly because it failed to address the issue of race. While the issue of race relations, nationalism, the failure to reduce arms and materialistic tendancies continues to weakens the fabric that America was built upon, it appears all that distraction will prevent America from seeing the machinations of an enemy, that will lay waste to parts of the Nation.

I see it is too late to break it down, too many think it is all a game, a fight as to who is right. Wheras to me, it is now a fight to do what is right, what God has said we need to do.

So I will keep contributing to my community in any useful way I can and let what will be, be. I wish you and all, all the best CG.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

I can't arbitrarily choose to make myself believe, for eg. that Islam is true or that the Sun doesn't exist and is a figment of my imagination... beliefs are formed over time and one is either convinced or not. I can't choose what's convincing or not convincing to my brain.

It's interesting that you mention the "Sun". Now Baha'is are a fairly practical religion. You might not know that by how some Baha'is talk here. But they believe science and religion should agree. That without science, religion can slip into believe weird superstitious things like dying and rising God/men like some religions do.

But, Baha'is say the Bible is true. That it is the Word of God... But the Bible says that God stopped the Sun in the sky for a whole day? So how can we convince our brains that something like that is true? And Baha'is, even though they say the Bible is true, would agree with you. So, even they, make adjustments to these so-called Scriptures of the Gods. They make special revisions to these books of the Gods. So, in the end, Baha'is make things that are unbelievable, believable. They do this by saying that stopping the Sun in the sky didn't literally happen. That there is a simple explanation to those things. They were meant to be "symbolic". With that the brain doesn't have to force itself to believe the wild and crazy stories in books like the Bible. The brain sees something out of the ordinary. It just thinks, "Oh yeah, Baha'is told all those things aren't to be taken literally. They are symbolic."

So no more should you be bothered with the things that are said in the Holy Books of all the other religions. Now all you have to do is convince your brain into believing all the wild and crazy things that Baha'is say in their Holy Books.

 

[CG Didymus]

I broke it down around 40 years ago CG and to you, I have offered all I have found.

To me it all points to Baha'u'llah. I do not know why you see it another way and I am not here to change you.

I have naught else to offer CG, but to say as America falls apart, just know that why it is, has already been offered.

In the history of Faiths, has the future been so vividly shown to us?

If a person chooses to read all of what Shoghi Effendi has offered from Baha'u'llah and Abdul'baha, as to what will happen, then it can be seen the future was foretold.

America will suffer greatly because it failed to address the issue of race. While the issue of race relations, nationalism, the failure to reduce arms and materialistic tendancies continues to weakens the fabric that America was built upon, it appears all that distraction will prevent America from seeing the machinations of an enemy, that will lay waste to parts of the Nation.

I see it is too late to break it down, too many think it is all a game, a fight as to who is right. Wheras to me, it is now a fight to do what is right, what God has said we need to do.

So I will keep contributing to my community in any useful way I can and let what will be, be. I wish you and all, all the best CG.

Regards Tony

Yes, but as you know, Christians also believe that what is happening to the world is exactly what the Bible predicted. But, Jesus doesn't come back until the bad stuff gets so bad that we can't take it anymore. For them, then Jesus comes. For Baha'is, some bad stuff happened. But really... end of the world kind of bad stuff. Anyway, bad stuff happened... The Bab and Baha'u'llah came. The world didn't listen, so now it has to go through all sorts of bad things until it gets so bad that we all turn to the Baha'is as a last resort. And that's just looking at two religions. I'm sure the end time prophecies of the other religions have similar but different beliefs. Is yours, the Baha'i Faith, the right one? Does it explain what is happening perfectly? No, not perfectly. Maybe close, so it could be true. But, we'll see.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes, but as you know, Christian also believe that what is happening to the world is exactly what the Bible predicted. But, Jesus doesn't come back until the bad stuff gets so bad that we can't take it anymore. For them, then Jesus comes. For Baha'is, some bad stuff happened. But really... end of the world kind of bad stuff. Anyway, bad stuff happened... The Bab and Baha'u'llah came. The world didn't listen, so now it has to go through all sorts of bad things until it gets so bad that we all turn to the Baha'is as a last resort. And that's just looking at two religions. I'm sure the end time prophecies of the other religions have similar but different beliefs. Is yours, the Baha'i Faith, the right one? Does it explain what is happening perfectly? No, not perfectly. Maybe close, so it could be true. But, we'll see.

Such is the Quandary post I offered in the past CG.

The wait and see aspect you have mentioned, is exactly what is happening to the world. Everyone is awaiting a fix.

I see all the Holy books tell of the fix and it is in unity of purpose and living the virtues. That every eye shall see, could be just a change of mind for many.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

How does One Whoknoweth all things, testifieth the truth of words?

And if we had a nickel for every time we heard someone say something like that... Like, "Hey, check this out. I've got these stone tablets with ten commandments that God wrote down. I know it looks like I chiseled them in. But no, God did it with his finger."

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And if we had a nickel for every time we heard someone say something like that... Like, "Hey, check this out. I've got these stone tablets with ten commandments that God wrote down. I know it looks like I chiseled them in. But no, God did it with his finger."

I see if one had a nickle for everyone that rejected the messengers, mocked them, or made a false claim to be one of them, then one would be a lot richer.

Such is the age we live in.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Such is the Quandary post I offered in the past CG.

The wait and see aspect you have mentioned, is exactly what is happening to the world. Everyone is awaiting a fix.

I see all the Holy books tell of the fix and it is in unity of purpose and living the virtues. That every eye shall see, could be just a change of mind for many.

Regards Tony

Well, part of the problem is I think some people don't trust religions anymore. And the Baha'i Faith, being a religion, has to deal with that. Why should people trust that what Baha'is say is true? And Baha'is agree. Baha'is expect people to check it out for themselves. And part of that is to see how Baha'is act and live their lives. And how is the Baha'i Faith working in their communities? Not all Baha'is are very active. Some are active, but not necessarily in a good way. Some are awesome. Same with Baha'i communities. Some aren't very active. Some are active but not in a good way. Some are awesome.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

God did clear it all up when He sent Baha'u'llah. It's all there in the Writings of the Baha'i Faith. It is not God's fault that most people have chosen to reject Baha'u'lah and what He wrote.

If most of the people reject this messenger, the problem is the method of sending messages.

Or gods are just a figment of clever men's imaginations.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Well, part of the problem is I think some people don't trust religions anymore. And the Baha'i Faith, being a religion, has to deal with that. Why should people trust that what Baha'is say is true? And Baha'is agree. Baha'is expect people to check it out for themselves. And part of that is to see how Baha'is act and live their lives. And how is the Baha'i Faith working in their communities? Not all Baha'is are very active. Some are active, but not necessarily in a good way. Some are awesome. Same with Baha'i communities. Some aren't very active. Some are active but not in a good way. Some are awesome.

CG, again the quandary, as each person is responsible for their own choices and I can only wish everyone the best of choices.

It took me quite some time to find that even though the goal is the unity of the entire human race, it is only in God, as an individual, we should give our love and place our trust. If we divert the focus of our love to another or anything else, then we can and will only find disappointment. The love my wife and I have eventually found, in all the turmoil we faced, was just that. In our life now, each of our individual connections with God, in whom we place our Love and Trust, is what feeds our Love for each other and not the other way around. The other way around is how we become attached to the trials and tribulations of this world and can loose our connection to each other.

It is only ones connection with God, that can feed the motivation to help all humanity, rid of attachment to names, but embracing the Spirit.

Regards Tony

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

No, I was not referring to evidence of a god.... This is what I was referring to:

The evidence indicates that most people are steeped in religious tradition or attached to what they already believe; and that if they do not have a religion most people are suspicious of the new religion and the new Messenger; and that if they are atheists they do not like the idea of Messengers of God or they think they are all phonies.

But if you think you can prove my evidence for God is false, have at it.

They are steeped in different religions. That indicates they need a god. Because they hope someone will come and solve their problems.

It's not that we don't like the idea of messengers, we don't believe they are messengers. Especially when so many of them are corrupt.

 

[Trailblazer]

If most of the people reject this messenger, the problem is the method of sending messages.

No, the problem is the people who reject the Messenger.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

He didn't wait. I believe that God has revealed Himself to man through Messengers from the very beginning of human history.

I never said that men do not have that capability. I believe that men invented many religions, but I do not believe that the true religions are inventions of man..

But the Messengers did get their messages across and that is why 84 percent of the world population has a faith.

Go ahead.

So give us proof.

You admit that many religions are false, so that means you have to present proof your messenger is from god.

84% is an indication of Man'sneed for a super hero to solve their problems.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

There are no facts that prove that God exists, sorry.

They are facts that prove that god doesn't exist. At least no god ever written about.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If most of the people reject this messenger, the problem is the method of sending messages.

Or gods are just a figment of clever men's imaginations.

Since God does not need us and it is us that needs God. The neglect to embrace the Message how God has chosen to do so, lays squarely on the shoulders of mankind.

Regards Tony