God’s Method of delivering messages, is it flawed?

[Trailblazer]

By your own definition you can only claim it's evidence to you and convinces you. So you fell into your own trap.

I guess you missed my entire point. There is no trap.

What is evidence to a person is what convinces that person.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Because only some of those were revealed by a Messenger of God.

No, Judaism did not grow out of those religions. A religion does not always grow out of the religion that preceded it chronologically.

How do you know what Judaism grew out from?

We know that some of the stories it tells come from other religions.

 

[CG Didymus]

CG does not even understand progressive revelation so there is nothing to point out.

Then explain it.

No, I refuse to list them because it is not my job to do your homework....

Yes, do our homework. Read a little of it and ask questions. That's what we are doing. You, I'm would think, have some responsibility in being the teacher and explaining some of this stuff a little better.

I do not have to study and research other religions, I already have a religion.

The way I know which religion is the real truth is because of what the Baha'i Faith teaches.

And it teaches not to learn anything about the other religions? Just to talk about them and say how wrong they are and how they are no longer relevant? And a Christian that says that Baha'u'llah is a false Messiah but has never read anything about the Baha'i Faith... and is basing their belief only on what they know of what their interpretation of the Bible is... is doing the same as you. And is that right? Or should they at least study up on the Baha'i Faith a little?

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

I just posted one thing that Baha'u'llah believed and said.

I am not giving you a list. You can do your own homework if you want to know.

I have started with my reading on Wiki. So far it looks like ramblings of what he wishes. All very unlikely. Baháʼu'lláh - Wikipedia

Is that true?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And yet you don't have the time to study and research the other religions. How do you know that they aren't the real truth? You say you don't even read the Bible, yet you quote it all the time. Where did you get those verses that you quote? You don't even have time for those paragraphs of things Baha'u'llah said. You say that the paragraph which you quoted summed it all up. Meaning, none of the "stories" of the other religions are important? I really don't think that's what Baha'is believe is it? Maybe you, but not all Baha'is?

The Key here is CG, if you study what Baha'u'llah offered, it contains all that was offered by past Messengers. If it can not be found in the Message of Baha'u'llah, we have to consider it using reason and science and if it does not balance in reason and science, it was most likely not offerd by any Messenger.

The Key here is I see any past Messenger in the same light of Baha'u'llah, I make no differences in their person or their Message, they were all showing us how to love and know God.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

How do you know what Judaism grew out from?

I don't know, but I do not believe it grew out of the religions CG was referring to.

 

[CG Didymus]

How do you know what Judaism grew out from?

We know that some of the stories it tells come from other religions.

Yes, by her own definition, Judaism has to be a "revealed" religion. The supposed revealers are Adam, Noah, Abraham and Moses. Did they get a revelation from God? Or, did the scribes of the Israelite people write a story about how they and their God came to be... and borrowed some legends and myths from other people's religions?

 

[CG Didymus]

The Key here is CG, if you study what Baha'u'llah offered, it contains all that was offered by past Messengers. If it can not be found in the Message of Baha'u'llah, we have to consider it using reason and science and if it does not balance in reason and science, it was most likely not offerd by any Messenger.

The Key here is I see any past Messenger in the same light of Baha'u'llah, I make no differences in their person or their Message, they were all showing us how to love and know God.

Regards Tony

Well, we're talking about flaws here. None of the other religions seem to be flawless. None of them seem to be on the same page as the others. Something is messed up. Maybe by applying the Baha'is laws things will be better. But some of their explanations of how God sent his messengers in the past don't make sense.

 

[CG Didymus]

I don't know, but I do not believe it grew out of the religions CG was referring to.

You've never read about how many ancient religions had creation stories and flood stories and to tie in Christianity... stories about dying and rising God/men... that of course were born of a virgin.

 

[Trailblazer]

Then explain it.

I already have. I am sorry you do not understand.

Yes, do our homework. Read a little of it and ask questions. That's what we are doing. You, I'm would think, have some responsibility in being the teacher and explaining some of this stuff a little better.

I am not going to do your homework. I will answer questions about the Baha'i Faith but not questions about other religions.
I live my entire life on this forum, and you want me to do more. Sorry, it is not my job to explain other religions to you.

And it teaches not to learn anything about the other religions? Just to talk about them and say how wrong they are and how they are no longer relevant?

It does not teach that but it also does not teach that I am responsible to learn about other religions and teach them to other people.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

No, CG does not even understand progressive revelation so there is nothing to point out. And I am a she.

No, I refuse to list them because it is not my job to do your homework....

And yes, Baha'is believe that Baha'u'llah was the second coming.

Baháʼu'lláh faced exile from his native Iran, and in Baghdad in 1863 claimed to be the expected prophet of whom the Báb foretold.

I used the words Second coming as he believes he's the next Jesus, Mohammed, etc.

 

[Trailblazer]

I have started with my reading on Wiki. So far it looks like ramblings of what he wishes. All very unlikely. Baháʼu'lláh - Wikipedia

Is that true?

Is what true?

 

[Trailblazer]

You've never read about how many ancient religions had creation stories and flood stories and to tie in Christianity... stories about dying and rising God/men... that of course were born of a virgin.

No, I haven't read those.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Yes, if not from God, then from themselves.

If they could come up with any verifiable fact that science hasn't revealed first then it would be evidence of a god-like being giving them information.

The facts they do attribute to their god are easily disproven by science.

Genesis is the creation of men. Just like the rest of the Bible, Quran, writing of Baháʼu'lláh.

I asked TBS to point out where we were not descendants of apes, he forgot to answer, conveniently.

 

[CG Didymus]

The Bible foretells of these days

Yes, like the Book of Revelation which is not very well explained and interpreted by the Baha'is. Like who is the "Lamb" and all that. And don't think The Bab fits the full description of the "Lamb that was slain." I don't believe that "666" was a prediction of the year the Umayyads took over. I don't believe that the Three Woes are predictions of manifestations of God. So it's a matter of opinion if the Bible foretells Baha'u'llah. In fact, I even question some of the predictions that Christians use... like Isaiah 7:14. In context, it has nothing to do with Jesus.

 

[CG Didymus]

Yes, if not from God, then from themselves.

Or, could some be that lower level type of prophet?

 

[CG Didymus]

From the Bible.

So you have read at least some of it? But not all of it?

 

[CG Didymus]

I did have time, as I have read the Kitab-i-Iqan cover to cover at least three times.

Then what is all that stuff he's saying...

8 When Muḥammad, 9 unto Yathrib, 10 He continued to turn His face, while praying, unto Jerusalem, the holy city, until the time when the Jews began to utter unseemly words against Him—words which if mentioned would ill befit these pages and would weary the reader. Muḥammad strongly resented these words. Whilst, wrapt in meditation and wonder, He was gazing toward heaven, He heard the kindly Voice of Gabriel, saying: “We behold Thee from above, turning Thy face to heaven; but We will have Thee turn to a Qiblih which shall please Thee.” 11 On a subsequent day, when the Prophet, together with His companions, was offering the noontide prayer, and had already performed two of the prescribed Rik’áts, 12 the Voice of Gabriel was heard again: “Turn Thou Thy face towards the sacred Mosque.” 13 , 14 In the midst of that same prayer, Muḥammad suddenly turned His face away from Jerusalem and faced the Ka‘bih. Whereupon, a profound dismay seized suddenly the companions of the Prophet. Their faith was 15 Notwithstanding the truth of these facts, why should the Qiblih have been changed, thus casting such dismay amongst the people, causing the companions of the Prophet to waver, and throwing so great a confusion into their midst? Yea, such things as throw consternation into the hearts of all men come to pass only that each soul may be tested by the touchstone of God, that the true may be known and distinguished from the false. Thus hath He revealed after the breach amongst the people: “We did not appoint that which Thou wouldst have to be the Qiblih, but that We might know him who followeth the Apostle from him who turneth on his heels.” 16 “Affrighted asses fleeing from a lion.” 17

 

[CG Didymus]

CG, it is not entirely up to Baha'i to do this, we have been told only to offer the opportunity to the path.

I am not here to change yours or any person's choices, just to give alternate ideas.

You and others can do with those opportunities as you wish CG.

Regards Tony

That's what I'm afraid of. Flawed people imposing their rules on society and it's going to bring peace? Now if you said all people we "see" the light and become Baha'is and follow "God's" laws, then maybe there might be a chance... assuming that these laws are really from God.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes, like the Book of Revelation which is not very well explained and interpreted by the Baha'is. Like who is the "Lamb" and all that. And don't think The Bab fits the full description of the "Lamb that was slain." I don't believe that "666" was a prediction of the year the Umayyads took over. I don't believe that the Three Woes are predictions of manifestations of God. So it's a matter of opinion if the Bible foretells Baha'u'llah. In fact, I even question some of the predictions that Christians use... like Isaiah 7:14. In context, it has nothing to do with Jesus.

Since Baha'u'llah has revealed the Bible does point to this Revelation, we have two ultimate choices.

It does, or it does not.

Either way, it is up to us if we want to see if that is Fact.

Letter to Pope Pius IX

"O Pope! Rend the veils asunder. He Who is the Lord of Lords is come overshadowed with clouds, and the decree hath been fulfilled by God, the Almighty, the Unrestrained. Dispel the mists through the power of thy Lord, and ascend unto the Kingdom of His names and attributes. Thus hath the Pen of the Most High commanded thee at the behest of thy Lord, the Almighty, the All-Compelling. He, verily, hath again come down from Heaven even as He came down from it the first time. Beware that thou dispute not with Him even as the Pharisees disputed with Him without a clear token or proof. On His right hand flow the living waters of grace, and on His left the choice Wine of justice, whilst before Him march the angels of Paradise, bearing the banners of His signs. Beware lest any name debar thee from God, the Creator of earth and heaven. Leave thou the world behind thee, and turn towards thy Lord, through Whom the whole earth hath been illumined... "..... O Followers of the Son! We have once again sent John unto you, and He, verily, hath cried out in the wilderness of the Bayán: O peoples of the world! Cleanse your eyes! The Day whereon ye can behold the Promised One and attain unto Him hath drawn nigh! O followers of the Gospel! Prepare the way! The Day of the advent of the Glorious Lord is at hand! Make ready to enter the Kingdom. Thus hath it been ordained by God, He Who causeth the dawn to break.... "

Regards Tony