God’s Method of delivering messages, is it flawed?

[Trailblazer]

And why do Baha'i only recognize some of those?

Because only some of those were revealed by a Messenger of God.

And, Since this list has Hinduism and Zoroastrianism prior to Judaism, making them the closest "chronological" religion to Judaism, did Judaism grow out of them?

No, Judaism did not grow out of those religions. A religion does not always grow out of the religion that preceded it chronologically.

 

[Trailblazer]

Stop posting quotesI can't be bothered to read until you give me a list of what Baha'u'llah believes or says. So I can see if there's anything of worth in it.

I just posted one thing that Baha'u'llah believed and said.

I am not giving you a list. You can do your own homework if you want to know.

 

[CG Didymus]

Jesus did offer one must be born again, a simple truth is this;

John 3:6 "Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit".

And when Christians are told in the NT to go out and preach the gospel, what was that gospel message that they were preaching? Anybody can take a couple of verses out of context and pretend they mean whatever they want.

 

[Jos]

I believe that the older scriptures are anthropomorphic and that is why God comes across as a person. Those scriptures are ancient, so perhaps that was the only way that people could relate to God in ancient times, but we no longer live in ancient times so the modern man can conceptualize God as an unknowable Being.

Moreover, none of those scriptures were written by a Messenger of God, so they are far removed from what was originally revealed by God. That is my way of saying I do not believe that those scriptures are accurate. Not only that, but they are subject to human interpretation and I do not believe the interpretations are accurate. Many of the Writings of Baha'u'llah say that the essence of God (His intrinsic nature) is completely unknowable. Not even the Messengers of God can comprehend the Essence of God, so how much less can any ordinary human being understand it? Here is an excerpt from a Tablet wherein Baha'u'llah was referring to God as the only one who can Know God:

If God is essentially unknowable then how can the messengers know anything about Him? And isn't all scripture subject to human interpretation?

If God is not all-powerful, all-knowing and all-wise there would be no reason to even believe in Him or follow in His Way.

Why? We trust competent authorities all the time that aren't all knowing, all wise and all powerful

No religious beliefs can ever be proven, that is why they are called beliefs. You can call it hearsay if you want to but I believe there is no other way to know anything about God except through His Messengers.

Ok, that's your prerogative, I have issues with that but OK

Certitude of my beliefs means "I believe" that the beliefs are true, that the beliefs cannot he wrong. It says nothing about me being right, it is about the beliefs. I believe they are true.

Ok fair enough

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

If those religions were true and the "spiritual" laws were the same in each, and only the "social" laws changed we would have some continuity. But that's not what we have. All religions are different and many reflect the people and culture from which they came. But wait, you don't have time to explain the paragraphs prior to your quote? Or, you don't have time to read all those words that your leader wrote? Well then, I'm not going to read them. It's way too wordy... has things in it that I have no idea what he's trying to say. I'll wait for the "Baha'i Writings for Dummies" to come out.

That you have to point it out to TB shows how blind he is.

He refuses to list what Baha'u'llah wants because he's scared we will point out the flaws. Like believing he's the second coming.

At the age of 27, Baháʼu'lláh became a follower of the Báb, a Persian merchant who began preaching that God would soon send a new prophet similar to Moses, Jesus, or Muhammad. The Báb and thousands of followers were executed by the Iranian authorities for their beliefs. Baháʼu'lláh faced exile from his native Iran, and in Baghdad in 1863 claimed to be the expected prophet of whom the Báb foretold.

Baháʼís view Baháʼu'lláh as the most recent of these teachers whose mission includes the spiritual unification of the entire planet through the eradication of racism and nationalism. Baháʼu'lláh's teachings include the need for a world tribunal to adjudicate disputes between nations, a uniform system of weights and measures, and an auxiliary language that could be spoken by all the people on earth. Baháʼu'lláh also taught that the cycles of revelatory renewal will continue in the future, with Manifestations of God appearing about every thousand years. ×

 

[Trailblazer]

Then please stop calling it evidence.

I won't stop because I believe it is evidence.

Here is how I see it:

Atheists say they require evidence but when they are presented with evidence they say "that's not evidence."

The reason they say that is because what was presented to them is not evidence to them since it does not help to prove to them that the belief is true, and the body of facts or information presented to them does not indicate to them that the belief is true.

But that does not mean it is not evidence, by the definitions of the word evidence,

Evidence: anything that helps to prove that something is or is not true: EVIDENCE | definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary

Evidence: the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid: https://www.google.com/search

because what is evidence to one person is not necessarily evidence to another person; so they should not say say "that's not evidence" but rather they should say "that's not evidence to me." Otherwise I consider what they say to be self-centered and arrogant, and frankly, I am sick of listening to it. Who the hell do they think they are to be defining what evidence is? They would not see the evidence for God if it hit them in the head.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And Evangelical Christians, JW's and Mormons are so many others say the same thing. Now that I've heard the "truth" about Jesus, it is up to me to believe or turn away. Baha'is too. They say, "Check it out and see that it is true." And all can't be true, so we ask questions and point out things we disagree with and that contradict the other religions. Baha'is don't have any better "proof" to their claims then any other religion.

The Bible foretells of these days CG. Many Christains calling out in Jesus name, not aware of who Christ is, that the Father has come. The Muslims are not looking as their interpretation does not consider God does as God wills.

If you see the Message of Baha'u'llah does not offer the remedy for this age, then that is your God given right to think just that.

Personally I see the remedies have been given.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Because only some of those were revealed by a Messenger of God.

No, Judaism did not grow out of those religions. A religion does not always grow out of the religion that preceded it chronologically.

Or Baha'is don't recognize their founders as being manifestations. So where did they get the "wisdom" and spiritual knowledge to come up with the things of their religion? If not from God, then from themselves?

 

[Jos]

And you know that I don't exactly HOW?

66: O EMIGRANTS! The tongue I have designed for the mention of Me, defile it not with detraction. If the fire of self overcome you, remember your own faults and not the faults of My creatures, inasmuch as every one of you knoweth his own self better than he knoweth others.

The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 45

Once again I'm sorry for assuming that you don't practice what you preach.

 

[Trailblazer]

That you have to point it out to TB shows how blind he is.

No, CG does not even understand progressive revelation so there is nothing to point out. And I am a she.

He refuses to list what Baha'u'llah wants because he's scared we will point out the flaws. Like believing he's the second coming.

No, I refuse to list them because it is not my job to do your homework....

And yes, Baha'is believe that Baha'u'llah was the second coming.

 

[CG Didymus]

I just posted one thing that Baha'u'llah believed and said.

I am not giving you a list. You can do your own homework if you want to know.

And yet you don't have the time to study and research the other religions. How do you know that they aren't the real truth? You say you don't even read the Bible, yet you quote it all the time. Where did you get those verses that you quote? You don't even have time for those paragraphs of things Baha'u'llah said. You say that the paragraph which you quoted summed it all up. Meaning, none of the "stories" of the other religions are important? I really don't think that's what Baha'is believe is it? Maybe you, but not all Baha'is?

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

I won't stop because I believe it is evidence.

Here is how I see it:

Atheists say they require evidence but when they are presented with evidence they say "that's not evidence."

The reason they say that is because what was presented to them is not evidence to them since it does not help to prove to them that the belief is true, and the body of facts or information presented to them does not indicate to them that the belief is true.

But that does not mean it is not evidence, by the definitions of the word evidence,

Evidence: anything that helps to prove that something is or is not true: EVIDENCE | definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary

Evidence: the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid: https://www.google.com/search

because what is evidence to one person is not necessarily evidence to another person; so they should not say say "that's not evidence" but rather they should say "that's not evidence to me." Otherwise I consider what they say to be self-centered and arrogant, and frankly, I am sick of listening to it. Who the hell do they think they are to be defining what evidence is? They would not see the evidence for God if it hit them in the head.

By your own definition you can only claim it's evidence to you and convinces you. So you fell into your own trap.

 

[Trailblazer]

Or Baha'is don't recognize their founders as being manifestations. So where did they get the "wisdom" and spiritual knowledge to come up with the things of their religion? If not from God, then from themselves?

Yes, if not from God, then from themselves.

 

[Trailblazer]

And yet you don't have the time to study and research the other religions. How do you know that they aren't the real truth?

I do not have to study and research other religions, I already have a religion.

The way I know which religion is the real truth is because of what the Baha'i Faith teaches.

 

[Trailblazer]

Once again I'm sorry for assuming that you don't practice what you preach.

Thanks.

 

[CG Didymus]

The Bible foretells of these days CG. Many Christains calling out in Jesus name, not aware of who Christ is, that the Father has come. The Muslims are not looking as their interpretation does not consider God does as God wills.

If you see the Message of Baha'u'llah does not offer the remedy for this age, then that is your God given right to think just that.

Personally I see the remedies have been given.

Regards Tony

Are the remedies working? Baha'is can't seem to bring peace, love and understanding between people here on the forum. Sure, if a person joins your religion, I can see how you'd get along fairly well. But if a person joins any religion, they will probably get along fairly well with the other believers. The big thing is... are Baha'is really the ones that can unify and bring peace to the world by applying the teachings of their religion?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That's why I don't like or agree with the Baha'i concept of "progression revelation". I don't see any reason not to believe that people made up their Gods and their religion.

That is what all the Messengers offer that all good is from God and all the rest is from our own selves.

“11: O SON OF BEING! Thou art My lamp and My light is in thee….”

O SON OF BEING! Thou art My lamp and My light is in thee. Get thou from it thy radiance and seek none other than Me. For I have created thee rich and have bountifully shed My favor upon thee.

“12: O SON OF BEING! With the hands of power I made thee and with…”

O SON OF BEING! With the hands of power I made thee and with the fingers of strength I created thee; and within thee have I placed the essence of My light. Be thou content with it and seek naught else, for My work is perfect and My command is binding. Question it not, nor have a doubt thereof."

If we are to find a Messenger, all we can find is the light shining from them, we will find no darkness.

The problem we have for Messengers more than a 1000 years ago is we do not know how much darkness men have added to their story and word offered.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Where did you get those verses that you quote?

From the Bible.

 

[Trailblazer]

You don't even have time for those paragraphs of things Baha'u'llah said.

I did have time, as I have read the Kitab-i-Iqan cover to cover at least three times.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Are the remedies working? Baha'is can't seem to bring peace, love and understanding between people here on the forum. Sure, if a person joins your religion, I can see how you'd get along fairly well. But if a person joins any religion, they will probably get along fairly well with the other believers. The big thing is... are Baha'is really the ones that can unify and bring peace to the world by applying the teachings of their religion?

CG, it is not entirely up to Baha'i to do this, we have been told only to offer the opportunity to the path.

I am not here to change yours or any person's choices, just to give alternate ideas.

You and others can do with those opportunities as you wish CG.

Regards Tony