God and Depression

[AntEmpire]

How was the ability to process the information not there. Does it say adam and eve were stupid and that they didnt have the same reasoning ability or capacity to learn that modern humans do?

Adam and eve would have had to choose between 2 contradictory statements that is correct. However, they would have understood the concept of lying but they would have also reasoned that the god could be lying also. Just like numerous decisions that are made in life where the choices have contradictory statements behind them, we must decide what is true. This is free will.

If someone tells you heroin is good for you. You might say but people say its bad. Then that person might say if it is bad then why do so many people do it etc. In the end it is your choice who to believe. Some people will choose to believe doing heroin is bad and not do it and some people will choose to believe doing heroin is good and do it. This is free will.

How did A&E gain this knowledge?

 

[Jeremy Mason]

the audacity of such a statement. so someone is experiencing an enormous amount of pain for YOU to feel better about your self....
narcissism.... sheer narcissism
and believers wonder why unbelievers question their rationality...

the sad part of this is the inability to understand how such a statement is taken as a hostile remark.

You abviously have misplace narcissism for compassion. Perhaps the narcissism is yours.

 

[Caladan]

Why would god make people with mental disorders? (my sister is bi-polar, I have mild depression, my mother had constant anxiety)

Now for this thread assume a supreme being that created humanity exists. Why would he/she/it if it cared for the people it was creating make them with mental disorders? This can slippery slop slide into discussions about retardation, or even physical or even babies that are born and destined to die a painful death weeks later, etc.

I've been hearing this again and again from North Americans on the internet. and I can't relate to it every single time this comes up.
Have you ever looked at the world around you?
the way nations do battle with each other over resources. the way a bigger fish always gets the smaller fish, the way a predator hunts his prey, the way a leech does what it does best, and the very poisonous gas and material the earth itself produces, some of which are the most essential to our economy and to our very livelihood on daily basis.
And still people ask why is God not benevolent. look at the world around you, why should a god if he exists and is behind this world should be any different?
Some people find it beautiful. the way underwater creatures hunt their prey in the most sophisticated ways, the way insects evolve to survive human intervention via chemical agents, the way people today can make a short term sustainable resource out of mere dung, and the way a locust is a curse in the marshlands of the Nile Valley, but a blessing in the desert.

 

[waitasec]

Why would god make people with mental disorders? (my sister is bi-polar, I have mild depression, my mother had constant anxiety)

Maybe to see how others take care for them?

the audacity of such a statement. so someone is experiencing an enormous amount of pain for YOU to feel better about your self....
narcissism.... sheer narcissism
and believers wonder why unbelievers question their rationality...

the sad part of this is the inability to understand how such a statement is taken as a hostile remark.

You abviously have misplace narcissism for compassion. Perhaps the narcissism is yours.

what you feel about yourself is what matters...
after all, you're on gods side, right?
:biglaugh:

 

[Jeremy Mason]

what you feel about yourself is what matters...
after all, you're on gods side, right?
:biglaugh:

what grade are you in?

 

[jtartar]

Why would god make people with mental disorders? (my sister is bi-polar, I have mild depression, my mother had constant anxiety)

Now for this thread assume a supreme being that created humanity exists. Why would he/she/it if it cared for the people it was creating make them with mental disorders? This can slippery slop slide into discussions about retardation, or even physical or even babies that are born and destined to die a painful death weeks later, etc.

AntEmpire,
Your understanding of mankinds problems is totally off base.
Mankind is alienated from God, because our ancester Adam decided to follow Satan instead of God. When Adam sinned against God he became imperfect and began to die, Gen 2:17, Deut 32:5. As men grow older we get many problems, because we are imperfect and are getting further from the time when men were perfect.
According to the Bible mankind are actually enemies of God, Col 1:21, and only if we put our trust in God and His son do we become reconciled again to God, Col 1:20,21, 2Cor 5:18-20. Notice that only through Christ can we be reconciled to God, and be forgiven of our sins, Gal 2:16, Matt 20:28, Acts 13:38,39.
Now, God has allowed mankind to go their own way, but He has set a time limit on His creation, Acts 17:30,31. The beginning of the end of this system of things started in 1914, when the world changed dramatically, with the First World War, Rev 12:7-12.
Very shortly Jesus will come again and end this system and set up a New World in which there will be no sickness and even death will be done away with, Rev 21:3,4.
Then God will act as the loving Father that He wanted to be, and will open His hand and satisfy the desire of ever living thing, Ps 145:16.
There is a term in Theology called Pansatanism, which means that the world is the manisfestation of the Personality of it's God, Satan, 2Cor 4:3,4, Rev 12:9, 1John 5:19. Armageddon will usher in a New World, Rev 21:1,2, ONE THOUSAND years of the Great Judgement Day where all mankind alive will grow again to perfection and will change this world into a beautiful Gardenlike park, just as God's original purpose was stated in Gen 1:26-28, Isa 45:18, John 5:28,29.

 

[Frank Merton]

the way nations do battle with each other over resources. the way a bigger fish always gets the smaller fish, the way a predator hunts his prey, the way a leech does what it does best, and the very poisonous gas and material the earth itself produces, some of which are the most essential to our economy and to our very livelihood on daily basis.

There is the moral concept that if one has the ability and the opportunity to correct a serious evil in the world, then one has the moral responsibility to do so.

Where is God then? Are we forced to conclude He is not a moral being, or do we just conclude He isn't?

 

[Caladan]

There is the moral concept that if one has the ability and the opportunity to correct a serious evil in the world, then one has the moral responsibility to do so.

'The moral responsibility?' this sounds mighty serious and obligating. can you give me concrete examples?

Where is God then? Are we forced to conclude He is not a moral being, or do we just conclude He isn't?

People are forced to conclude their own understanding of the world and current affairs. people are forced to do that, everyday I would say.

 

[Frank Merton]

'The moral responsibility?' this sounds mighty serious and obligating. can you give me concrete examples?

It is serious, and, like all responsibilities, it is obligating. The tests are ability -- you have the resources, etc., needed -- and opportunity -- a chance has arisen wherein you can achieve the end without doing worse harm. I dunno about providing you specific examples; I would rather people figured them out on their own. Otherwise it gets a bit too preachy and dogmatic.

 

[waitasec]

what grade are you in?

is that the best you can do, revert to insults?
it makes you feel better about yourself, doesn't it?





very telling indeed....

 

[Caladan]

It is serious, and, like all responsibilities, it is obligating.

Good for you. if you feel obligated. I guess there is nothing stopping you right now from creating economical stability for your community.

The tests are ability -- you have the resources, etc., needed -- and opportunity -- a chance has arisen wherein you can achieve the end without doing worse harm. I dunno about providing you specific examples; I would rather people figured them out on their own. Otherwise it gets a bit too preachy and dogmatic.

Good. then we have a natural understanding. because this is what my doctrine is all about. secure a resource for yourself, or a number of resources. and maximize the prosperity you can for them in order to make a more stable economy, in your community, and hopefully in the larger region.
I am not even sure why we are discussing this. as this is an ABC of any healthy and functioning economy.

 

[Frank Merton]

Good for you. if you feel obligated. I guess there is nothing stopping you right now from creating economical stability for your community.

Too grandiose for me; I like my moral goods to be more personal. Changing the economy would be far too prone to the law of unintended consequences.

Good. then we have a natural understanding. because this is what my doctrine is all about. secure a resource for yourself, or a number of resources. and maximize the prosperity you can for them in order to make a more stable economy, in your community, and hopefully in the larger region.
I am not even sure why we are discussing this. as this is an ABC of any healthy and functioning economy.

This strikes me as an attempt to rationalize selfishness.

 

[iholdit]

Difference being if your or my kid did herion we wouldn't throw a tantrum and damn an entire race of beings. Or if we did, we would get over it unless we were real stuborn children who wouldn't admit our mistakes. (Both locking our kid in a room filled with herion and then punishing him and a race of beings for it)

Locking kids in a room full of heroin? The garden was huge(not a room) there were only 2 trees they couldnt eat from in the whole garden(not a room full of heroin) adam and eve were free to leave the garden(not locked in a room). Your comparison is not even close.

 

[iholdit]

bible passage where god explains lying, deceit to adam and eve?

Also god put a deceitful snake in the garden, do you know how big the **** universe is? He could've put it anywhere, (or not made the snake) god might not be able to lie himself (which would make him less powerful in the ablity than a 13 year old who can lie), but if he has a will to trick man into eating something he told them not to eat, god could use the backdoor and create a being for the specific purpose of tricking mankind.

Find me the exact bible verses where anyone tells eve eating from the tree will kill her or anyone telling anybody that touching the tree will kill them. Yet eve is well aware that eating from the tree will kill her even though there are no verses saying how she is aware of this. Eve is even aware that even touching the tree will kill her yet there are no verses saying this either. She never questions what death is to the snake which even my 5 year old would do if he wasnt aware of what something was. Clearly there has been alot of detail told to adam and eve, yet there are no verses explaining how they got these details. Its pretty obvious they were well informed about the consequences and the details of the consequences to the point that all of their questions were answered.

The snake had free will you cant blame the creator for that anymore than i can blame you if your 13 year old grows up to be a serial murderer. As long as you thoroughly explained to your 13 year old that murder is bad and the consequences etc., i or anyone else can not hold you responsible for decisions they make as an adult.

 

[Caladan]

Too grandiose for me; I like my moral goods to be more personal. Changing the economy would be far too prone to the law of unintended consequences.

Well. good. then go on and do as you do par usual. what ever that is. or how enigmatic and mystical it is. which is why it's probably escaping the rest of us.
You know the rational men and women on the street.

This strikes me as an attempt to rationalize selfishness.

Oh no. I don't rationalize having my own personalized interests, goals, and challenges. I pursue them daily, hour by hour, day by day.
Terribly selfish I know. are you going to stand there for a long time holding a cross, a pitchfork and read from your Bible?

 

[AntEmpire]

I've been hearing this again and again from North Americans on the internet. and I can't relate to it every single time this comes up.
Have you ever looked at the world around you?
the way nations do battle with each other over resources. the way a bigger fish always gets the smaller fish, the way a predator hunts his prey, the way a leech does what it does best, and the very poisonous gas and material the earth itself produces, some of which are the most essential to our economy and to our very livelihood on daily basis.
And still people ask why is God not benevolent. look at the world around you, why should a god if he exists and is behind this world should be any different?
Some people find it beautiful. the way underwater creatures hunt their prey in the most sophisticated ways, the way insects evolve to survive human intervention via chemical agents, the way people today can make a short term sustainable resource out of mere dung, and the way a locust is a curse in the marshlands of the Nile Valley, but a blessing in the desert.

Yeah... i don't believe in god, and if there was one he would be equally good as evil.

 

[AntEmpire]

AntEmpire,
Your understanding of mankinds problems is totally off base.
Mankind is alienated from God, because our ancester Adam decided to follow Satan instead of God. When Adam sinned against God he became imperfect and began to die, Gen 2:17, Deut 32:5. As men grow older we get many problems, because we are imperfect and are getting further from the time when men were perfect.
According to the Bible mankind are actually enemies of God, Col 1:21, and only if we put our trust in God and His son do we become reconciled again to God, Col 1:20,21, 2Cor 5:18-20. Notice that only through Christ can we be reconciled to God, and be forgiven of our sins, Gal 2:16, Matt 20:28, Acts 13:38,39.
Now, God has allowed mankind to go their own way, but He has set a time limit on His creation, Acts 17:30,31. The beginning of the end of this system of things started in 1914, when the world changed dramatically, with the First World War, Rev 12:7-12.
Very shortly Jesus will come again and end this system and set up a New World in which there will be no sickness and even death will be done away with, Rev 21:3,4.
Then God will act as the loving Father that He wanted to be, and will open His hand and satisfy the desire of ever living thing, Ps 145:16.
There is a term in Theology called Pansatanism, which means that the world is the manisfestation of the Personality of it's God, Satan, 2Cor 4:3,4, Rev 12:9, 1John 5:19. Armageddon will usher in a New World, Rev 21:1,2, ONE THOUSAND years of the Great Judgement Day where all mankind alive will grow again to perfection and will change this world into a beautiful Gardenlike park, just as God's original purpose was stated in Gen 1:26-28, Isa 45:18, John 5:28,29.

As it still stands, god improperly educated and left alone his two new toys. (adam and eve) And he put an evil lying satan inside of this garden. God also put a tree that would cause him to be mad enough to punish billions of innocent unborn people, god put this tree in the one place he put man. God made a universe that is so huge we can not yet see the end of it, god had plenty of place to put satan and the tree and man in the universe without all being in the garden. It was gods will to damn mankind. But god is decietful so he made it so he could blame it on the snake and the females in order to make a world that wasn't so boring.

If its not true help me out.

 

[AntEmpire]

Locking kids in a room full of heroin? The garden was huge(not a room) there were only 2 trees they couldnt eat from in the whole garden(not a room full of heroin) adam and eve were free to leave the garden(not locked in a room). Your comparison is not even close.

Take the size of the earth, now thats the galaxy (there are trillions of galaxies) now take one pixel from your screen. God put man and the tree and the snake all in that pixel, instead of iono, the moon.

If you saw on the news some person's kid overdosed on herion and died, then you found out the parent locked the kids in a, mind you massive, room with two stashes of herion, you wouldn't be like "dumb *** killed his kids"

No way its the kids fault! Riiiiight

 

[AntEmpire]

'The moral responsibility?' this sounds mighty serious and obligating. can you give me concrete examples?

Its called not being an @$$h0|3.

 

[AntEmpire]

Find me the exact bible verses where anyone tells eve eating from the tree will kill her or anyone telling anybody that touching the tree will kill them. Yet eve is well aware that eating from the tree will kill her even though there are no verses saying how she is aware of this. Eve is even aware that even touching the tree will kill her yet there are no verses saying this either. She never questions what death is to the snake which even my 5 year old would do if he wasnt aware of what something was. Clearly there has been alot of detail told to adam and eve, yet there are no verses explaining how they got these details. Its pretty obvious they were well informed about the consequences and the details of the consequences to the point that all of their questions were answered.

The snake had free will you cant blame the creator for that anymore than i can blame you if your 13 year old grows up to be a serial murderer. As long as you thoroughly explained to your 13 year old that murder is bad and the consequences etc., i or anyone else can not hold you responsible for decisions they make as an adult.

If the bible isn't an accurate account why use it? You are forced to assume what happened.

God placed the snake in the garden. Since we've established the whole story isn't in the Bib: I'll school you. There was an arrangement in the green room before the curtains went up for the play, God told the snake to convince Eve/Adam to eat of the tree. God and satan made a deal laid the ground rules for the game and it began. It was god's will for god to damn mankind. it was the plan all along. God was all powerful, he didn't need to put magical death trees and decietful snakes in the garden, god did it with an agenda.

As for the kid thing, yeah I would feel responsible, and I would hold you responsible if you raised your kid so ****tily that without some god-given mental disorder he killed a bunch of people. If you look at the childhoods of serial killers 95% of them are ****** up.