God and Depression

[PolyHedral]

As already stated in this thread we would been initially made perfect but over time we would have decayed due to any poisons etc. our parents etc. ate or were exposed to in their lifetime.

Then we weren't perfect to begin with. The whole concept of a perfect thing decaying in any way is a contradiction.

 

[iholdit]

Then we weren't perfect to begin with. The whole concept of a perfect thing decaying in any way is a contradiction.

Would you prefer i said man was originally created without disease etc. and later acquired disease etc.?
I think we are just arguing definitions at this point.

 

[sniper762]

god doesnt "make" people that way, they choose to be.

 

[PolyHedral]

Would you prefer i said man was originally created without disease etc. and later acquired disease etc.?
I think we are just arguing definitions at this point.

But you can't acquire disease in anything less than 10,000 or so years after genesis. Evolution isn't fast enough.

 

[iholdit]

But you can't acquire disease in anything less than 10,000 or so years after genesis. Evolution isn't fast enough.

Maybe i am misunderstanding here but are you saying you cant get a disease in less than 10,000 years?

 

[AntEmpire]

god doesnt "make" people that way, they choose to be.

Sure, and you weren't made an *********, you choose to be.

 

[AntEmpire]

Like it or not you were created just ask your parents. You have no say in whether you were created or not, unless you believe this is all part of your uncreated imagination, at which point we are all created by your imagination so we are still created, except you of course.
Regarding the op. Here is how epigentics works, everything your mom and dad ate for example had an effect on you. Not just your mom and dad but even what your grandparents ate had an effect on you. So if they smoked cigarettes or drank or did drugs or ate lead paint as a kid etc. all of that ties into your genetics. So you want to blame a god for your grandmother eating lead paint?
You have to look at this from the perspective of a god. If a god created everyone to do everything that the god wanted we would all just be puppets. What is the point of that? You or i could make puppets and they can say or do whatever we want would that make us gods?
A god would make a creation that can think for itself and make its own decisions and have its own experiences etc. As already stated in this thread we would been initially made perfect but over time we would have decayed due to any poisons etc. our parents etc. ate or were exposed to in their lifetime.
You can blame a god for this but do you blame a god everytime you decide to eat something you know is unhealthy or any other mistakes you consciously make? Yet those decisions effect your offspring and the world.
Can a god fix it all? Sure, but whats the point of that. Do you follow your children around forcing them to do whatever you want like a puppet or do you let them make some of their own decisions?
We have free will and we can restore the earth and ourselves(humans) back to perfection over time. Your body can heal itself to an extent and if you follow a good diet and not be exposed to drugs or poisons etc. there is a better chance of your children not having a disease or disorder etc.
Rather than blame a god, we need to take responsibility as a whole for the world we live in and how that effects our children and their children etc.

God still made the system that would make the way my parents lived effect my personality. God could've easily made everything on earth to not be harmful or poisonous to human's, but he didn't. If you believe god created this world then the responsibility is with him, unless god was ignorant then, why would you worship him?

Well i don't give my children the choice of love me or be tortured, so i've got your demented heavenly father there.

You see I don't think god is responsible, I don't believe he exists, not the god of the bible anyway. So I don't blame god, please remember this is all hypothetical.

 

[sniper762]

I take it that those asterics represent something that you are afraid to print straightforth. How cowardly of you.

 

[AntEmpire]

I take it that those asterics represent something that you are afraid to print straightforth. How cowardly of you.

You said that I choose to be depressed. How assholish of you.

 

[sniper762]

Keep on. Dont stop now. A tree is judged by the fruit it bares.

 

[AntEmpire]

Keep on. Dont stop now. A tree is judged by the fruit it bares.

And you keep baring the same fruit. If you want to make yourself seem different than this heathen, explain your statement:

"god doesnt "make" people that way, they choose to be."

Why are you under the impression depressed people choose to be that way?

Oh and this also includes Bi-polar, Anxiety, OCD, physical deformities that people are born with, mental retardation, and babies that are born with diseases that kill them shortly after a painful life.

Two part question, hope its not too much for you to handle.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

I have been diagnosed with clinical depression, panic disorder, OCD, and a whole host of other mental maladies that can be changed based on my mindset. But I've just been through an unwanted divorce, so I'm working on it. I cannot blame these things on any god (of which I don't believe in), or even my external circumstances, even though I want to. The problems all lie within my own mind. HOWEVER, I have a form of Autism called Asperger's Syndrome. This is something I was born with, and something that cannot go away. Anyone who has lived with someone with an Autism spectrum disorder, or who suffers from a form of it themselves, can tell you how frustrating it can be. I think this is part of the reason why I ended up with a divorce. My ex, who's "normal" could no longer deal with some of my 'idiosyncrasies'. At any rate, if there was a god, for instance, the Abrahamic god, then yes, it would be his fault, and it would be illogical for him to blame me for some of the things I do and say that might go against his law. It would not take a loving creator, but a supreme dictator to do something like that. Most people with Autism spectrum disorders wear it with pride, but I know the heartache and destruction that it can cause, and I'd rather not have it.

 

[AntEmpire]

@MattMcneal:

From my understanding and relationships with people who've had one but certainly not all of those mental maladies, its not something you can turn off like a switch with a change of mindset. Even when my friends, or myself have tried this it comes back with time, maybe a few hours, maybe a few days, maybe even a month or too, but the problem is that it keeps coming back, because it is not something your consciously doing by choice.

 

[sniper762]

Yes to bipolar, anxiety and ocd. They are all mental attributes that one has based on something(s) that displeases them. If these people had everything going right for them them then they would not choose to have those problems.

As for deformities, retardation and other "birth" deseases. They are not in the same catagory, but still are not caused by god, just human parentalgenetics and/or deficiencies.

Too hard to explain? Hardly. Different to that heathen? Most definately.

 

[AntEmpire]

Yes to bipolar, anxiety and ocd. They are all mental attributes that one has based on something(s) that displeases them. If these people had everything going right for them them then they would not choose to have those problems.

As for deformities, retardation and other "birth" diseases. They are not in the same category, but still are not caused by god, just human parental genetics and/or deficiencies.

Too hard to explain? Hardly. Different to that heathen? Most definately.

Do you yourself have any mental dysfunctions. I bet you think all the starving kids in africa starve because they're too lazy to work. Even when I had everything going right for me as a child I had this dysfunction, even before what the church calls the age that kids have their own responsibility for their spiritual actions.

Not caused by god? God caused human parental genetics, he wrote the code, and unless your god is ignorant he knew what he was doing and how the genetics would work 400 million years down the line, let alone a few thousand years.

Still not a coherent answer so we've yet to see if you can explain.

Different? We both don't think its god's fault. I just believe in one less god than you.

 

[sniper762]

YOU SAY: God caused human parental genetics, he wrote the code.

THEN YOU SAY: We both don't think its god's fault.

its apparent that you DONT KNOW "what" you think. typical atheist

 

[AntEmpire]

YOU SAY: God caused human parental genetics, he wrote the code.

THEN YOU SAY: We both don't think its god's fault.

its apparent that you DONT KNOW "what" you think. typical atheist

Read the OP when you join a thread.

"Now for this thread assume a supreme being that created humanity exists."

I don't believe in god so everything i say about god existing is only IF the thing existed. Now read again and don't get all mad and junk this time.

 

[Commoner]

Yes to bipolar, anxiety and ocd. They are all mental attributes that one has based on something(s) that displeases them. If these people had everything going right for them them then they would not choose to have those problems.

What are you smoking?

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

@MattMcneal:

From my understanding and relationships with people who've had one but certainly not all of those mental maladies, its not something you can turn off like a switch with a change of mindset. Even when my friends, or myself have tried this it comes back with time, maybe a few hours, maybe a few days, maybe even a month or too, but the problem is that it keeps coming back, because it is not something your consciously doing by choice.

Those are not the only things I suffer from, either, I just didn't feel the need to reveal everything online. But you are right, they're not something you can turn on and off at a whim. But it's also difficult to change one's mindset. And I agree that it's not something that I, or anyone else who suffers, do by conscious choice. For instance, I converted to Buddhism soon after my divorce. In Buddhism, there is a doctrine of the Three Marks of Existence, which states that all conditioned things are 1. impermanent, 2. unsatisfactory, and 3. no-self. This teaching has helped me some in overcoming some of my issues. However, it takes more than a mental assent or even intellectual understanding of these things in order to effect a change of mind. It takes conscious, continued awareness and mindfulness of these things in order to slowly, slowly, bring about the desired change. And, thankfully, slowly, slowly, I am starting to get a little better, but I know that I still have a ways to go.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Yes to bipolar, anxiety and ocd. They are all mental attributes that one has based on something(s) that displeases them. If these people had everything going right for them them then they would not choose to have those problems.

As for deformities, retardation and other "birth" deseases. They are not in the same catagory, but still are not caused by god, just human parentalgenetics and/or deficiencies.

Too hard to explain? Hardly. Different to that heathen? Most definately.

I generally, as a course of politeness, don't bluntly point out readily apparent ignorance's. But I simply cannot keep quiet about this. My ex-wife's family's pastor is a Baptist minister, who is absolutely convinced that conditions like Autism simply do not exist. He feels the same way about depression, anxiety, and the like. And I know, personally, that he is not the only one (namely, conservative Christian) who feels this way. But it takes a great deal of ignorance to say what you have just said. These things are not a choice, in any way, shape, or form. Now, sometimes, minor cases of one or two are based solely off of one's external circumstances, like if someone loses a good job, they become depressed, but it generally goes away upon finding another job. But in cases like mine, they are based on deep-seated mental conditions that do not change with the weather, but go much deeper than that. I would suggest you do some study on the topics, and then come back with a more thoughtful, rational, and understanding answer.