God existance in Islam

[Britedream]

Which was predicted by Galen before the Quran!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shahz, game is over.

 

[MD]

Shahz game is over.

Lol yea and you lost. You're a truly deluded person. I hope you realize that a lot of what you believe in is false before you die.

 

[Britedream]

Lol yea and you lost. You're a truly deluded person. I hope you realize that a lot of what you believe in is false before you die.

That is not for you to decide.

 

[outhouse]

Do You have the capacity to understand this:

yet you don't have the capacity to understand any tie to your ancient warrior pedophiles plagiarisms is just imagination.

 

[outhouse]

That is not for you to decide.

Fanaticism is very easy to see.

 

[Britedream]

yet you don't have the capacity to understand any tie to your ancient warrior pedophiles plagiarisms is just imagination.

To hide your ignorance, you only responded to the first part of my post to you, on the ignorant statement you made, by only making fool of yourself.

 

[outhouse]

To hide your ignorance, you only responded to the first part of my post to you, on the ignorant statement you made, by only making fool of yourself.

Your book is no more divine then anything I have wrote.

You have proved nothing except how deep the fanaticism is while embarrassing good muslims.

 

[Tiapan]

God is a supreme being with life that is not proceeded by absence nor it is followed by an end,

If God simply equals Universe ie impersonal rocks, light, gas, plasma and gravity as part of an oscillating physical thing that contracts and expands with a big bang every so often then you may have a case. The Universe is certainly superior but NOT supreme compared to us puny humans. We are simply implicitly part of it.

But to anthropomorphise this system to make it some how only relevant to humans relative to the physical world is a mischief. The Universe is impersonal and has absolutely no interest in humans or its constitutes it simply is. Life and a subset of it called humans are of no more relevance to the universe than a static rock on the moon.

All the perfect and beautiful attributes belong to him.

The universe is beautiful and I guess the universe must be perfect because I don't know what an imperfect universe would look like, perhaps green and red stars whose colors clash. Therefore this is a false statement as there is only one universe, as far as we know so far.

He has no gender,

Then you should refer to "He" as "It". "He" is universally MALE which is a gender!.

nor He is similar to anyone or anything.

Figments of the imagination tend to be.

He is high above all his creations,

High is relative, I guess "He/it" could be up to 13.7 light years from us but equally he could be below us or beside us. So that really does not make sense especially once we are more than 100 km above the earth because the concept of "up" is irrelevant in zero gravity.

yet He is with them through his abilities; hearing, seeing, knowing, for that being closer to them than their own jugular veins.

I guess a pile of space rocks and light could have "abilities" but all I see is normal physics.

If this "He" is close to our jugular veins then surely we would see "Him/It"

If he is "High" above us eg in outer space then "He/it" like us would have the greatest difficultly hearing us because sound requires air to propagate. So in space no-one would hear you even if you scream. I presume the Koran describes the type of tympanic membrane "he/it" has in order to "hear" with.
Further where in the Koran does it show how "He/it" sees. is it RGB/grey with cones and rods like a human, B&W like a dog, IR like a snake, UV like and insect or sonar like a Bat?
You will probably make a broad statement such as "all of the above" but give no evidence for it.

Remember all knowing is irrelevant as the Universe simply is ALL things by definition.

The perfect fairness, is one of God's attributes,

I am not sure this is relevant as the Universe is neither fair or unfair as a pile of rocks and light it has no anthropomorphic connotation.

So for me to realize his existence, he did two things, He gave me the capability, through the brain, and the evidence to be realized by this brain,

So you have a brain and you can think as do all animals. This in itself IS NOT proof of God

...and only then if the evidence that can be realized by the human brain reaches me,

This is a bit ambiguous, so evidence is only relevent after it is interpreted by a human brain?

I will be accountable

If you have evidence that is actually "true" or "relevant' then you should explain it before it could be accepted as proof

if I do not believe in it.

As part of his fairness, He send his message through someone,

Through someone? What a message tied to an arrow? Or did he hear "voices" (Schizophrenia perhaps) or more typiclly a dream? Here is where you are making the archetypal mistake.

You MUST admit a MAN (or rather a 12 year old girl) NOT god ACTUALLY wrote the verses.

people know his integrity, and honesty, and He supports him with evidence that shows his truthfulness. Evidence that goes along with the knowledge of the people of his time.

An honest dude can still be honestly deluded.Also anyone can write down that which is currently logical like "be kind to your fellows" type stuff, big deal it DOES NOT therefore prove anything about God, it simply shows a good HUMAN author wrote some words.

Are you saying this god thingo spoke to a couple of blokes but not every one, that sounds a bit bigotted and elitist.

For example: When He sent the prophet Moses pbuh, He supported him with signs for his truthfulness.

What were the signs where is the proof of the correct interpretation of the facts?

Pharaoh believed that was a magic used; magic was used intensively at that time, So Pharaoh call upon the masters of magic to challenge Moses, once opponent on the stage, magicians realized that, it is no magic, but the truth. ( people of knowledge realize truth).

Magic is by definition deliberate delusion, TRUTH is TRUTH, magic is not truth it is fake, no matter how clever it is. It is still very good at deluding those of weak mind who are easily conded.

So for the Arabs, prophet Muhammed pbuh sent to them, they call him before he was sent; the trust worthy, they never known him to lie ever. but what the Arab master at that time is the linguistic abilities of their language, they hung seven master pieces in their holy shrine to denote their linguistic abilities. So God spoke to them, putting his words above and beyond anything they knew, they never heard anything like it before, nor they were to be able to produce something like it after. proving to them what they hear is his own. not only that, He sent down his words as 6236 verse in random over period of 23 years, putting the ability of mankind to shame, as to produce something like it. in that, God told the mankind, this is my words, if in doubt, speak something like it.

Here we go again you have jumped again from semilogic to the ridiculous.
So we should believe only that which some 7th century camel jockey said rather than current science?

The west went through an "age of enlightenment" which resulted in vastely more "truths" in that it lead to, for example, the real airplane instead of fictional magic carpets.

An excellent example is the Korans reference to the stars, "oil lamps in the night sky". Any "all knowing" god worth his salt would have obviously known stars are fueled by hydrogen fusion, not oil because oil as is not flammable in space because there is no oxygen.

This alone PROVES the FALSEHOOD of an "all knowing" god you suggest is real, as he obviously totally ignorant of nuclear physics which is the REAL truth, making your islamic claims 100% False since you claim the Koran is perfect, well I just pointed out a major flaw in "perfect".

If you think that is not hard, pickup a dictionary, open it five times, putting five words in a random in a sentence, and see how meaningful is that, now talk about 6236 verses in random on thousands of leather pieces, not numbered, over period of 23 years.

Most authors are not monkeys randomly hitting keys on a typewriter. They will all have vocabulary and grammar. The problem with Arabic is the massive ambiguity of this language. English would have been a far more sensible language to write it in. But I guess God didnt know any english. (So much for All Knowing concept again.)

Do not get me wrong I believe Mohomad and his 12 year old child sex slave were real, and I think he was a great bloke with some good ideas but it takes a MASSIVE leap of faith to presume that this is all due to some supernatural super dude. Was Shakespear who wrote vaste amounts of brilliant work also therefore a prophet? No he was just a very bright man...no god needed.


continued ..

 

[Tiapan]

... continued part 2

Arab as the master of their language, they conceded that it is not in their ability to produce something like it.

Rubbish! An Arab wrote the stuff so OBVIOUSLY it was indeed extremely possible. Although literally hardly any of them could read or write. Not a good indicator for a supposed "advanced society".

(people of knowledge realize truth).

One would hope so, so long as they know the whole truth not just bits.

But God is a just and merciful, since only few beside the Arabs know the Arabic language, He put other evidence in his book for the non Arab to realize that it is from him.

If God = Universe then It is neither just nor merciful merely indifferent to humans. What is the other evidence, more examples please.

Examples: in this verse God said for punishing the unbelievers, is to replace their skin for them to feel the punishment.

So this god is going to skin all those who do not believe in him/it? What about the Australian Aborigines my Countrymen who have existed as a civilization for 40-50,000 years in a society that believes the great rainbow serpent PBUI is the creator. Listening to their logic I see many parallels and can honestly say it is just as valid if not more so than your logic so far.

Is your god going to skin all my Countrymen because of their beliefs?

What a sicko your god must be. and then this directly contradicts himself when He talks later about freedom of religion (see 17:15; 18:29; 6:104). Therefore the Koran and your god are most definitely not perfect.

If Mohammad went on saying, disbeliever will be thrown into fire, then the message will suffice, but in going in details about a knowledge that not possibly known at that time, is a sign for the future generations to realize that it came from a divine source.
How is it possible for someone lived in the 7th century knows this phenomena. it is nothing, but God way of telling generations to come, this book came from a divine source.

And now your going to burn them as well... even sicker than I first thought.

Pain is actually felt in the brain not the skin. It is simply the receptor that is stimulated in the skin and as far as pain is concerned eg heat pain this is via fast firing C-fibers if my 2nd year physiology memory is correct. Which if burnt is killed. This why superficial burns hurt while often severe third degree burns are painless because the nerves are dead. Any person in the last million years of any experience would know this as common knowledge. And so your nasty little god in punishment will do a skin graft so the victim can re-experience more pain, what a sick god you have.

As far as a sign for the future it was common knowledge at the time so that is absolute nonsense.

Perhaps Arabs did not know this but every one else certainly did.

At the time of revelation, it may only suffice for them to know, relying on anything other than God, is a weak position, that may not last for long. but for someone in our time, to reflect on the information that is given, as the female spider usually has the web as a means of support, the use of the correct gender, and the purpose of the usage of its web, will find it, an astonishing confirmation of the divine origin of this book.

What an absolutely illogical statement. You are a disgrace to your education.

I could have made the list much longer, but I will leave it to Dr. Gary miller, to in light you with his insight about the subject, so Please take your time to listen to him in the following link.

Where did he get his doctorate, in a weeties packet?
Please show me more "Proofs" I hope they are better than these ones.

From all the above, a reasonable mined, has no choice but to concede that God exist, and the Koran is a book of revelation.

Any reasonable minded person would find, like me, that your arguments are illogical poorly defined, vague, and unsubstantiated. In a court of law they would thrown into the street and laughed at.

Cheers
and peace be upon you too.

 

[Britedream]

... continued part 2


Rubbish! An Arab wrote the stuff so OBVIOUSLY it was indeed extremely possible. Although literally hardly any of them could read or write. Not a good indicator for a supposed "advanced society".



One would hope so, so long as they know the whole truth not just bits.



If God = Universe then It is neither just nor merciful merely indifferent to humans. What is the other evidence, more examples please.



So this god is going to skin all those who do not believe in him/it? What about the Australian Aborigines my Countrymen who have existed as a civilization for 40-50,000 years in a society that believes the great rainbow serpent PBUI is the creator. Listening to their logic I see many parallels and can honestly say it is just as valid if not more so than your logic so far.

Is your god going to skin all my Countrymen because of their beliefs?

What a sicko your god must be. and then this directly contradicts himself when He talks later about freedom of religion (see 17:15; 18:29; 6:104). Therefore the Koran and your god are most definitely not perfect.



And now your going to burn them as well... even sicker than I first thought.

Pain is actually felt in the brain not the skin. It is simply the receptor that is stimulated in the skin and as far as pain is concerned eg heat pain this is via fast firing C-fibers if my 2nd year physiology memory is correct. Which if burnt is killed. This why superficial burns hurt while often severe third degree burns are painless because the nerves are dead. Any person in the last million years of any experience would know this as common knowledge. And so your nasty little god in punishment will do a skin graft so the victim can re-experience more pain, what a sick god you have.

As far as a sign for the future it was common knowledge at the time so that is absolute nonsense.

Perhaps Arabs did not know this but every one else certainly did.



What an absolutely illogical statement. You are a disgrace to your education.



Where did he get his doctorate, in a weeties packet?
Please show me more "Proofs" I hope they are better than these ones.



Any reasonable minded person would find, like me, that your arguments are illogical poorly defined, vague, and unsubstantiated. In a court of law they would thrown into the street and laughed at.

Cheers
and peace be upon you too.

You are simply giving your opinion, you are entitled to it, but opinion does not refute anything in debate. beside you have no idea what you are talking about, if you remove your skin's nerves endings, you will not feel if your skin burns.Discussion is about nerve ending in the skin. not about brain. Present evidence , not just a cheap talk. where is your evidence?, can you point to any prove that you presented?.

 

[Tiapan]

You are simply giving your opinion, you are entitled to it, but opinion does not refute anything in debate.beside you have no idea what you are talking about

I have Science degrees in Physiology, Pharmacology and Chemistry from recognized major world class Universities, so can speak with professional authority. Can you? What are your qualifications? I also find your remark insulting.

, if you remove your skin's nerves endings, you will not feel if your skin burns.

True

Discussion is about nerve ending in the skin. not about brain. Present evidence ,

You demonstrate here an absolute zero understanding of Human physiology and then spout that you have proof that demonstrates greater knowledge and wisdom than what is accepted world wide as the facts.

not just a cheap talk. where is your evidence?,

What evidence were you after in particular, texts on real human physiology are available at any technical bookshop or the internet these days all based on centuries of hard research and rock solid scientific EVIDENCE.

can you point to any prove that you presented?.

I present the following using exactly the same logic you have applied to show you how ridiculous your argument is

Quote:
Hey, diddle, diddle,
The cat and the fiddle,
The cow jumped over the moon;
The little dog laughed
To see such sport,
And the dish ran away with the spoon.
The earliest recorded version of this poem, in close to the modern form, was printed in London in "Mother Goose's (Peace Be Upon Her) Melody" around 1765.

Is it not amazing how the author (Peace Be Upon Her) has so prophetically predicted the future, obviously referring to the moon landings of 1969-1972 and more amazingly, accurately defining the shape of the radio communications dishes used for deep space exploration. Further the spoon is obviously referring to the complex LNB antenna array held at the focus of the dish and Laika was the first dog in space. Didn't one of the astronauts also play the violin and own a cat?

How could anyone pre 1750's possibly forsee such accurate knowledge of the current future.

What an amazing miracle and obviously proof that God exists!

All bow down to the almighty Mother Goose (Peace Be Upon Her)

I think all the sacred ancient mother goose (Peace Be Upon Her) texts, should be incorporated into the Koran to boost its integrity and credibility.

I have tried to respond sensibly to each of the points you raise consecutively and in detail and feel I have adequately dealt with this issue here and in previous posts, your inadequate ability to demonstrate a logical process is rather frustrating.

Of course you are entitled to remain in total denial of the real facts but that's your business.


Can I suggest you try reading some books and get an education. I am seriously impressed you can actually read and write though... well done

Cheers
and Peace be with you too

 

[Britedream]

I have Science degrees in Physiology, Pharmacology and Chemistry from recognized major world class Universities, so can speak with professional authority. Can you? What are your qualifications? I also find your remark insulting.



True



You demonstrate here an absolute zero understanding of Human physiology and then spout that you have proof that demonstrates greater knowledge and wisdom than what is accepted world wide as the facts.



What evidence were you after in particular, texts on real human physiology are available at any technical bookshop or the internet these days all based on centuries of hard research and rock solid scientific EVIDENCE.



I present the following using exactly the same logic you have applied to show you how ridiculous your argument is


I have tried to respond sensibly to each of the points you raise consecutively and in detail and feel I have adequately dealt with this issue here and in previous posts, your inadequate ability to demonstrate a logical process is rather frustrating.

Of course you are entitled to remain in total denial of the real facts but that's your business.


Can I suggest you try reading some books and get an education. I am seriously impressed you can actually read and write though... well done

Cheers
and Peace be with you too

I did not ask you what degree do you have, nor I care about it. you either lack the understanding, or you are playing the game that your friends usually do.

you have to understand the following:

1-Just because you do not know something, it is not your prove that it does not exist.

2- you can't assume your conclusion, you have to list the facts that lead to your conclusion.

You have a serious problem, if you can't differentiate between what I presented, and what you presented. let me show you the difference.

I started by my definition of God, how he communicates with his creation, then list the facts that lead to my conclusion there is a God. by showing you "Nociceptors" are in the skin, and gave you the link to "Pain Principles" which proves that.

Here is what I have posted:

1-The feeling of the pain is in the skin due to the "nociceptors". Fact.
2-From the same site I show you the prove that this specific Knowledge is not known before recent Scientific discovery. Fact.
3- It is not in a human nature to know what does not exist. Fact.
4-The Quran acknowledges the pain in the skin by replacing it for them to feel the punishment, coinciding with science. Fact.

So these facts will lead to the existence of God. Now where are your facts.

 

[Tiapan]

I did not ask you what degree do you have, nor I care about it. you either lack the understanding, or you are playing the game That your friends usually do.

you have to understand the following:

1-Just because you do not know something, it is not your prove that it does not exist.

2- you can't assume your conclusion, you have to list the facts that lead to your conclusion.

You have a serious problem, if you can't differentiate between what I presented, and what you presented. let me show you the difference.

I started by my definition of God, how he communicates with his creation, then list the facts that lead to my conclusion there is a God. by showing you "Nociceptors" are in the skin, and gave you the link to "Pain Principles" which proves that.

Here is what I have posted:

1-The feeling of the pain is in the skin due to the "nociceptors". Fact.
2-From the same site I show you the prove that this specific Knowledge is not known before recent Scientific discovery. Fact.
3- It is not in a human nature to know what does not exist. Fact.
4-The Quran acknowledges the pain in the skin by replacing it for them to feel the punishment. coinciding with science. Fact.

So these facts will lead to the existence of God. Now where are your facts.

I give up!
By the way the repair of nerves from skin grafts can take months or years and often never return so how does that help your punishment theory? Long time between tortures, I am glad I am not a patient in your hospital.

Cheers
and peace be upon you too.

 

[Tiapan]

Here is what I have posted:
1-The feeling of the pain is in the skin due to the "nociceptors". Fact.

False - You fail to recognize that all receptors are only one end of the long nerve which travels up the limb the via various ganglia through the spine on up to the brain where it is eventually consciously felt.

2-From the same site I show you the prove that this specific Knowledge is not known before recent Scientific discovery. Fact.

The physical identification of the tissues involved requires technology such as microscopy and histology along with voltage clamped neurophysiological measurements with micro electrodes. Work I am familiar with because I used to do exactly that when I ran the Biophysics lab at Monash University 30 years ago. So I am very familiar with the topic and it is insulting as a dedicated medical scientist to watch you so vigorously defend such an illogical and stupid point of view and be expected to be taken seriously. Further this is final proof because of the scientific evidence is now available however it has been hypothesized for centuries in many forms as far as the Egyptians and and the famous roman physician Galen

3- It is not in a human nature to know what does not exist. Fact.

FALSE Absolute rubbish half of the worlds literature is fiction in other words an understanding of things that don't exist. Fantasies like your Allah, Christians god and Jews Jehovah. Jins, angels, seraphins satans devils all imaginary beasts from the deep sick reccesses of someones nightmare.
Tolkiens "Lord of the rings" is a modern example of a total fiction with all the trappings and mythology of a religion.

4-The Quran acknowledges the pain in the skin by replacing it for them to feel the punishment. coinciding with science. Fact.

FALSE In fact they wont feel pain for quite some time if at all because it is very difficult to restore innervation functionality. You really have no idea of real world medicine You are a product of your environment, you must accept you are thoroughly brain washed by your masters and have no free will of your own at all, you are a robot.

So these facts will lead to the existence of God.

Absolute illogical rubbish!

Now where are your facts.

So you are obviously too lazy to type it into Google and be miraculously amazed at learning the real truth about human physiology. Good luck.

Cheers
and peace be upon you too

 

[Britedream]

False - You fail to recognize that all receptors are only one end of the long nerve which travels up the limb the via various ganglia through the spine on up to the brain where it is eventually consciously felt.



The physical identification of the tissues involved requires technology such as microscopy and histology along with voltage clamped neurophysiological measurements with micro electrodes. Work I am familiar with because I used to do exactly that when I ran the Biophysics lab at Monash University 30 years ago. So I am very familiar with the topic and it is insulting as a dedicated medical scientist to watch you so vigorously defend such an illogical and stupid point of view and be expected to be taken seriously. Further this is final proof because of the scientific evidence is now available however it has been hypothesized for centuries in many forms as far as the Egyptians and and the famous roman physician Galen




FALSE Absolute rubbish half of the worlds literature is fiction in other words an understanding of things that don't exist. Fantasies like your Allah, Christians god and Jews Jehovah. Jins, angels, seraphins satans devils all imaginary beasts from the deep sick reccesses of someones nightmare.
Tolkiens "Lord of the rings" is a modern example of a total fiction with all the trappings and mythology of a religion.



FALSE In fact they wont feel pain for quite some time if at all because it is very difficult to restore innervation functionality. You really have no idea of real world medicine You are a product of your environment, you must accept you are thoroughly brain washed by your masters and have no free will of your own at all, you are a robot.



Absolute illogical rubbish!



So you are obviously too lazy to type it into Google and be miraculously amazed at learning the real truth about human physiology. Good luck.

Cheers
and peace be upon you too

Do not try to play with words. let us take your points one by one:

If you remove the "Nociceptors" from your skin, Do you still feel the pain in your skin?, Yes or No.

 

[outhouse]

Do not try to play with words. .

A perfect example of why islam is the least educated of the large religions.

Failure to communicate effectively due to ingrained fanaticism and fundamentalism.

 

[Tiapan]

A perfect example of why islam is the least educated of the large religions.

Failure to communicate effectively due to ingrained fanaticism and fundamentalism.

I have to agree outhouse.

I have wasted too much time trying to help this guy, he is a lost cause of circular arguments.

I am not sure he actually understands English that well either.

I think I'll go start a new religion based on the prophetic verses of Aesop and Mother Goose.

If people in the middle east are this dumb, I will make a fortune as I take over the world by dragging it backwards a couple of centuries.

Cheers

 

[outhouse]

I have to agree outhouse.

I have wasted too much time trying to help this guy, he is a lost cause of circular arguments.

I am not sure he actually understands English that well either.

I think I'll go start a new religion based on the prophetic verses of Aesop and Mother Goose.

If people in the middle east are this dumb, I will make a fortune as I take over the world by dragging it backwards a couple of centuries.

Cheers

There is a lot of money to be had there, but I think the locals are already doing a fine job of perverting their ignorance.

Probably why their education is in such shambles.


Ya, you wont get through to any literalist. But your reason and knowledge does get through to people on the fence reading these replies.

 

[YmirGF]

I have to agree outhouse.

I have wasted too much time trying to help this guy, he is a lost cause of circular arguments.

I am not sure he actually understands English that well either.

I think I'll go start a new religion based on the prophetic verses of Aesop and Mother Goose.

If people in the middle east are this dumb, I will make a fortune as I take over the world by dragging it backwards a couple of centuries.

Cheers

After reading your fine points I can't help but be reminded of that old Biblical passage about casting pearls....

 

[Britedream]

I have to agree outhouse.

I have wasted too much time trying to help this guy, he is a lost cause of circular arguments.

I am not sure he actually understands English that well either.

I think I'll go start a new religion based on the prophetic verses of Aesop and Mother Goose.

If people in the middle east are this dumb, I will make a fortune as I take over the world by dragging it backwards a couple of centuries.

Cheers

The question is not about me, so trying to avoid the answer by emitting empty claims, puts you in a foolish position, and proves the validity of the points I raised.

You are the one making the fallacy of argument by assuming your conclusion.

Game is over for you as well.

Reader can see now, another prove of the behavior of this type of people.