God has to prove to me that He exists: what kind of proof should I demand?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Is the splendor and design of the universe not enough? Are you not awed beyond words at the intricacy of DNA, the miracle of new human life and its birth, the birth of a new star amidst a nebula?

"The universe is beautiful" does not imply "a god made it."

It certainly doesn't imply "this particular god made it as opposed to all the other gods that humanity also invented."

 

[Shantanu]

I'm saying others have argued that, yes. Given the universality of religious beliefs and their association with particular tribes or peoples, it doesn't sound too improbable to me, but I haven't explored it.

So would that be attributable to God intervention in setting up this myriad of religious institutions around the world?

 

[Shantanu]

The Only way to God is through your understanding..and your understanding would have to be wise enough to find in THE(God)..and if you don’t understand who God is is because you have been robbed of in your faith(understanding)..this world has robbed your time and faith..therefore your time for God has limited your understanding! You see!, you have been deceived by your mind of certain knowledge that does not exist! Meaning the reason why you don’t believe in God is because you don’t understand or a non-understanding or mis-understanding..of it! All these do NOT exist! You have chose not to understand in it!..this world has stolen your time and understanding than blindly making you choosing not to give time and the understanding for God..in other words!. There is NO such meaning as mis-understanding or non-understanding..it was you choosing not to understand God(unawarely)..
Our minds are as powerful as Einstein’s...einstein gave its understanding ALL his TIME..and let the mind do the rest!..this is what you need to do for God..this is why God says to have the sabbath..it is for your mind to find the understanding..and it comes down to ones own time, this will be the key for all this to happen(AND IT WILL BE FROM YOUR FREE-WILL THAT WILL GIVE ITS TIME TO)..so I would recommend with the time you have left should owe that to God(for only The worthy and earnest will find in God) ..if your seeking in God. You must work for it..it is not free! To reach God you would have to come out of your box and be more wise with your decisions.

So it is your belief that Einstein was God blessed to be discovering such things as Relativity and Sabbath is a special Holy Day for prayers to this God that you are trying to get me to adopt?

 

[Workman]

So it is your belief that Einstein was God blessed to be discovering such things as Relativity and Sabbath is a special Holy Day for prayers to this God that you are trying to get me to adopt?

No! Im saying the mind plays a big part in finding God..and have used einstein as an example of how the human mind can reach an understanding(with/in Gods involvement)..einstein was a genius because he gave what he knew the (time) to understand in what he knew..and what made him a genius was his dedication of TIME he gave more to understand his work..Just like any other Job one will know of their duty and be the best at it..because they gave the (time) to understand it..why I’ve said this is your lack in God is because you did not give it YOUR TIME to understand in God..this is what separate(s) you from God and that is through your understanding. This is and will be in HOW you’ll find and become of Gods few, is through your understanding(Mind)..BUT you NEED to make the TIME to learn in God.

 

[Workman]

You will not find God through facts, or evidence..because God does not allow it that way..that is the scientific way of believing..
Science is the work of experimenting and masters of it, but there is one thing science cannot experiment on..
And that’s Experience.
This is where Religion would cover..
And this is maybe why the two do not get along...Science cannot experiment on (ones)experience..
God forbids it this way.

 

[blü 2]

So would that be attributable to God intervention in setting up this myriad of religious institutions around the world?

Not as I understand it. It amounts to an argument that having a culture in common ─ stories of origins, heroes and natural phenomena, language (recall 'shibboleth'), and also beliefs, often thus communal ceremonies, rituals, observations for birth and death, luck in hunting or harvest or war or tough times &c ─ contributes to group identity and the benefits, both in peace and war, of group cooperation.

That would be consistent with research showing that our evolved moral tendencies ─ dislike of the one who harms, fairness and reciprocity, respect for authority, loyalty to the group &c ─ are appropriate for gregarious living.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I have been convinced that a God of some description was trying to communicate with me off and on and now it was off.

Then why do you need proof?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

One can appreciate Nature in all its forms, but there is nothing that can parallel the beauty of being in conversation with the Creator: this is what is important for me.

You misunderstood. I meant is the splendor and awe of creation not enough -- to convince a person that there is a God.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

It certainly doesn't imply "this particular god made it as opposed to all the other gods that humanity also invented."

The fact that our unevolved God sensors cannot perceive God clearly and thus come up with different views, does not necessitate that there is no God.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The fact that our unevolved God sensors cannot perceive God clearly and thus come up with different views, does not necessitate that there is no God.

No, but the fact that we can't tell whether God exists does mean that God is irrelevant and unnecessary as far as we can tell.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

No, but the fact that we can't tell whether God exists does mean that God is irrelevant and unnecessary as far as we can tell.

That's like saying that because some people can't distinguish red from green, red and green discernment must therefore be irrelevant and unnecessary.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That's like saying that because some people can't distinguish red from green, red and green discernment must therefore be irrelevant and unnecessary.

No, it's like the quote attributed to Laplace to explain why his mathematical model of the solar system didn't include God: "I has no need of that hypothesis."

In your scenario, anyone who points to a thing and says that it must be red and not green is talking out of their butts... and anyone who goes several steps beyond this to pledge their life to the fact that the thing is red and make it the foundation of their worldview is completely delusional.

... even if there's still a chance that the thing might be red.

 

[shunyadragon]

My search for the truth about Existence has come to this question?

Any ideas?

It is a question where there is no logical nor rational demand that is meaningful from the fallible human perspective.

 

[Shantanu]

No! Im saying the mind plays a big part in finding God..and have used einstein as an example of how the human mind can reach an understanding(with/in Gods involvement)..einstein was a genius because he gave what he knew the (time) to understand in what he knew..and what made him a genius was his dedication of TIME he gave more to understand his work..Just like any other Job one will know of their duty and be the best at it..because they gave the (time) to understand it..why I’ve said this is your lack in God is because you did not give it YOUR TIME to understand in God..this is what separate(s) you from God and that is through your understanding. This is and will be in HOW you’ll find and become of Gods few, is through your understanding(Mind)..BUT you NEED to make the TIME to learn in God.

We cannot say that a God exists without verifiable proof of that God: it has eluded me after 20 years of search.

 

[Shantanu]

Not as I understand it. It amounts to an argument that having a culture in common ─ stories of origins, heroes and natural phenomena, language (recall 'shibboleth'), and also beliefs, often thus communal ceremonies, rituals, observations for birth and death, luck in hunting or harvest or war or tough times &c ─ contributes to group identity and the benefits, both in peace and war, of group cooperation.

That would be consistent with research showing that our evolved moral tendencies ─ dislike of the one who harms, fairness and reciprocity, respect for authority, loyalty to the group &c ─ are appropriate for gregarious living.

What is wrong with simple living with a partner who can bear children for the family and go out hunting and picking fruits off trees; without the belief of religion-based communal living: that is how a lot of species thrive in the wild if I am not mistaken. Why do we need the delusion of a Creator or Preserver God when it could all be explained from our biology?

 

[Shantanu]

Then why do you need proof?

I did not get proof of any God's communications to me on how to live my life. So I am free to live according to my own ethical values and sense of dharma (duties and righteous actions).

 

[Shantanu]

It is a question where there is no logical nor rational demand that is meaningful from the fallible human perspective.

That is evading the human necessity for the truth to be revealed in this day and age so one does not have to rely on past revelations for which the Messiahs and Prophets and Buddhas are not here to answer questions of how it was that they were selected for their particular knowledge.

 

[shunyadragon]

That is evading the human necessity for the truth to be revealed in this day and age so one does not have to rely on past revelations for which the Messiahs and Prophets and Buddhas are not here to answer questions of how it was that they were selected for their particular knowledge.

Fallible humans are not capable of absolute Truth, nor the absolute knowledge of God's existence. This would be a vain egocentric demand of illusions of delusion.

 

[Shantanu]

Fallible humans are not capable of absolute Truth, nor the absolute knowledge of God's existence. This would be a vain egocentric demand of illusions of delusion.

I see. I must be that fallible human being not capable of the absolute Truth, nor of the absolute knowledge of God's existence. But I refuse to believe anyone else of the same unless He or She can give me the concrete proof of God's existence excepting a referral to read the scriptures. If no human being alive can produce that evidence it must be God's responsibility to provide the proof. He must find some way to answer my demand if He is God.

 

[blü 2]

What is wrong with simple living with a partner who can bear children for the family and go out hunting and picking fruits off trees; without the belief of religion-based communal living: that is how a lot of species thrive in the wild if I am not mistaken. Why do we need the delusion of a Creator or Preserver God when it could all be explained from our biology?

I didn't say we did.

However, it's clear that humans survive best in tribes, and not as loners out on the veldt like eg lions.

And the evidence for this is voluminous and strong, centering around cooperative action. In nearly all primate societies, including ours, position in society depends on one-to-one relationships within the group; and the larger the primate brain, the more such relationships are possible. This results in humans having many more such relationships each than any other primate species. If you improve your position in the society, this increases your own chances of survival by giving better access to resources and to breeding partners.