God-Inspired Scripture

[Redemptionsong]

Isaiah 1 and 2 make it plain that Isaiah is appointed to speak the words of YHVH.

Exactly, Ingledsva. Isaiah speaks the words of God. He does not glorify himself by claiming to preach the good news!!

Let me ask you this; Who is going to save Israel? What is the Messiah (as you envisage him) going to achieve for Israel?

 

[Redemptionsong]

The Bible is pretty corrupted to me.

Jesus was never crucified. He was ascended to heaven. Both in Old Testament and Qur'an.

There's no point making claims that you cannot substantiate.
The article you directed me to is not new. The Syriac version shown contains the Gospel of Barnabas, which was excluded from the canon of scripture because it was false a prophecy.

Now show me in the Bible, Old or New Testament, where it says that Jesus ascended without dying.

 

[Desert Snake]

It is still a subjective experience.
It is now a SHARED subjective experience.

Being shared does not make it objective.

Actually, it does. This is in fact how ''we'' compile 'objective findings'.
What you mean to say, i think, is that they can still be refuted. Very true! You can also refute the idea that the sun exists, so on. Try proving objectively that the sun exists, without using subjective inference.

 

[Jabar]

There's no point making claims that you cannot substantiate.
The article you directed me to is not new. The Syriac version shown contains the Gospel of Barnabas, which was excluded from the canon of scripture because it was false a prophecy.

Now show me in the Bible, Old or New Testament, where it says that Jesus ascended without dying.

How is it a false prophecy?

I will in a bit.

 

[Redemptionsong]

How is it a false prophecy?

What is stated in the Gospel of Barnabas does not agree with the prophecy of the scripture as a whole. As I have tried to show, the most persuasive argument for scripture is the fact that the books together form a perfect weave, an unbroken word.

 

[Jabar]

What is stated in the Gospel of Barnabas does not agree with the prophecy of the scripture as a whole. As I have tried to show, the most persuasive argument for scripture is the fact that the books together form a perfect weave, an unbroken word.

Even if it does, this puts contradiction.

Thus, indicating that the Bible has been tampered with.

 

[Jabar]

What is stated in the Gospel of Barnabas does not agree with the prophecy of the scripture as a whole. As I have tried to show, the most persuasive argument for scripture is the fact that the books together form a perfect weave, an unbroken word.

Verse of the Bible, Gospel of Mathew, Chapter No 12, Verse No. 38 and 40, ‘when people asked Jesus Christ (peace be upon him)… ‘Show me a sign, show me a miracle’. Jesus Christ (peace be upon him), says… ‘You evil and adulteration’s generation, seeketh after a sign, no sign shall be given to you, but the sign of Jonah. For as Jonah was 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the whale, so shall the son of man be 3 days and 3 nights, in the heart of the earth’


So, JESUS WAS NOT CRUCIFIED.

 

[McBell]

Actually, it does.

No, it really doesn't.

This is in fact how ''we'' compile 'objective findings'.

then why are religious beliefs subjective?

What you mean to say, i think, is that they can still be refuted. Very true! You can also refute the idea that the sun exists, so on. Try proving objectively that the sun exists, without using subjective inference.

Being objective does not eliminate subjectivity.

What you seem to be claiming is that if there are enough shared subjectivity it magically becomes objective.

 

[McBell]

Verse of the Bible, Gospel of Mathew, Chapter No 12, Verse No. 38 and 40, ‘when people asked Jesus Christ (peace be upon him)… ‘Show me a sign, show me a miracle’. Jesus Christ (peace be upon him), says… ‘You evil and adulteration’s generation, seeketh after a sign, no sign shall be given to you, but the sign of Jonah. For as Jonah was 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the whale, so shall the son of man be 3 days and 3 nights, in the heart of the earth’


So, JESUS WAS NOT CRUCIFIED.

That verse does not indicate either way the crucification of Jesus.
Actually, those verses seem to imply that after the day Jesus would be resurrected.

 

[Jabar]

That verse does not indicate either way the crucification of Jesus.
Actually, those verses seem to imply that after the day Jesus would be resurrected.

No, read it carefully.

Jonah was alive and so shall the SON of Man since the miracle on Jonah was the same.

Therefore, Jesus was not crucified.

 

[Desert Snake]

No, it really doesn't.


then why are religious beliefs subjective?


Being objective does not eliminate subjectivity.

What you seem to be claiming is that if there are enough shared subjectivity it magically becomes objective.

These words are not indicative of whether something is true, or not. There are many things that are facts, that are ''subjectively derived''. It is also highly doubtful, whether you are actually adhering to this claimed ''objective'' basis for deriving at facts. You certainly could not believe, or reference as fact, etc, many scientific ideas and theories, etc.

Anyways, aside from this semantic silliness, we all employ a subjective perspective to what we personally consider to be ''objective''.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Even if it does, this puts contradiction.

Thus, indicating that the Bible has been tampered with.

How can a copy of the rogue Gospel of Barnabas cause contradiction? The authorities established which books were spurious and threw them aside. The Gospel of Barnabas never made it into the canon of scripture. So how does this create a contradiction?
The oldest portions of the Bible, which have been carefully preserved by the Jews, contain all the seeds of truth. It's possible to see evidence of Jesus' crucifixion and death foretold in the books of the Old Testament.

Verse of the Bible, Gospel of Mathew, Chapter No 12, Verse No. 38 and 40, ‘when people asked Jesus Christ (peace be upon him)… ‘Show me a sign, show me a miracle’. Jesus Christ (peace be upon him), says… ‘You evil and adulteration’s generation, seeketh after a sign, no sign shall be given to you, but the sign of Jonah. For as Jonah was 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the whale, so shall the son of man be 3 days and 3 nights, in the heart of the earth’


So, JESUS WAS NOT CRUCIFIED.

Allow me to show you where you've got this wrong.
Jesus tells the scribes and Pharisees that there is a sign of the resurrection - the sign of Jonah.

According to the book of Jonah, Jonah (the type of Jesus) was to spend three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish (Jonah 1:17). This belly represents the grave. We know it's the grave because in Jonah 2:1 it says, 'out of the belly of hell (sheol, the grave) cried I, and thou heardest my voice.' We know that Jonah was dead because in verse 6 it says, 'the earth with her bars was about me for ever:' Then we are told about the resurrection from the dead, for in the same verse (6) it says,'yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God'.

Perfect. Jesus points us to Jonah, and Jonah shows us what is to happen. Jesus will DIE and will spend three days and nights in the grave. God will then raise up his soul from the grave and reunite his soul with his immortal body. He will be resurrected from the dead.
How do we know that Jesus' death would be by crucifixion? Read Psalm 22 and you'll see the whole scene as depicted in Matthew 27.

If you're interested in the truth, then check it out!

 

[Jabar]

How can a copy of the rogue Gospel of Barnabas cause contradiction? The authorities established which books were spurious and threw them aside. The Gospel of Barnabas never made it into the canon of scripture. So how does this create a contradiction?
The oldest portions of the Bible, which have been carefully preserved by the Jews, contain all the seeds of truth. It's possible to see evidence of Jesus' crucifixion and death foretold in the books of the Old Testament.




Allow me to show you where you've got this wrong.
Jesus tells the scribes and Pharisees that there is a sign of the resurrection - the sign of Jonah.

According to the book of Jonah, Jonah (the type of Jesus) was to spend three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish (Jonah 1:17). This belly represents the grave. We know it's the grave because in Jonah 2:1 it says, 'out of the belly of hell (sheol, the grave) cried I, and thou heardest my voice.' We know that Jonah was dead because in verse 6 it says, 'the earth with her bars was about me for ever:' Then we are told about the resurrection from the dead, for in the same verse (6) it says,'yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God'.

Perfect. Jesus points us to Jonah, and Jonah shows us what is to happen. Jesus will DIE and will spend three days and nights in the grave. God will then raise up his soul from the grave and reunite his soul with his immortal body. He will be resurrected from the dead.
How do we know that Jesus' death would be by crucifixion? Read Psalm 22 and you'll see the whole scene as depicted in Matthew 27.

If you're interested in the truth, then check it out!

Stop twisting your scripture. In 2:1 it says Then Jonah prayed unto Jehovah his God out of the fish's belly.
In 2:6 "This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'In a little while I will once more shake the heavens and the earth, the sea and the dry land.

Do not twist your own scriptures words.


I deal with people like you all time.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Stop twisting your scripture. In 2:1 it says Then Jonah prayed unto Jehovah his God out of the fish's belly.
In 2:6 "This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'In a little while I will once more shake the heavens and the earth, the sea and the dry land.

Do not twist your own scriptures words.


I deal with people like you all time.

There's no question of the scripture being twisted. It's here for all to see and check for themselves.The problem is, you're reading a scripture from HAGGAI 2:6 and not Jonah 2:6!!

 

[McBell]

we all employ a subjective perspective to what we personally consider to be ''objective''.

Agreed.
However, "personally objective" is still subjective.

 

[Jabar]

There's no question of the scripture being twisted. It's here for all to see and check for themselves.The problem is, you're reading a scripture from HAGGAI 2:6 and not Jonah 2:6!!

So what is your point?

Make long story short.

How do you know which one is right?

 

[Ingledsva]

Exactly, Ingledsva. Isaiah speaks the words of God. He does not glorify himself by claiming to preach the good news!!

Let me ask you this; Who is going to save Israel? What is the Messiah (as you envisage him) going to achieve for Israel?

It is not "glorifying," to tell people in your proclamation from YHVH, - that you have been appointed to do certain things.

I am not envisioning anything. I go by what the Jews say about their Messiah. You folks are the ones trying to backslide Jesus into every text you can imagine him in.

What is he supposed to do for Israel? You were given their site which lists what their Messiah is supposed to do. And of course it lists why Jesus did not fulfill them.

*

 

[Jabar]

There's no question of the scripture being twisted. It's here for all to see and check for themselves.The problem is, you're reading a scripture from HAGGAI 2:6 and not Jonah 2:6!!

He never said he was dead.

Jonah was alive obviously.

When the verse says depths of the grave it does not mean he died, you are twisting your own scripture.

It is seen as a poetic turn of phrase meaning a agonizing and horrifying experience.

Same with Jesus, but he was not dead just as it states in the verse.

 

[Jabar]

Watch this:

 

[Ingledsva]

He never said he was dead.

Jonah was alive obviously.

When the verse says depths of the grave it does not mean he died, you are twisting your own scripture.

It is seen as a poetic turn of phrase meaning a agonizing and horrifying experience.

Same with Jesus, but he was not dead just as it states in the verse.

Jonah didn't actually get swallowed by a big fish, and live there for three days. Didn't happen. It is just a teaching story. I read it as -

His choosing to run away out of fear, - rocked the boat (that course that YHVH had set) - and the resulting turbulent waves (of emotion) that he created, - engulfed him. It took him a terrifying three days (submerged in the dark) agonizing over his choices, and fears, - before he chose the way of YHVH, - and ascended out of the depths.

*