• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

God-Inspired Scripture

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
When asked what the purpose of Torah was by a student, Hillel's rather famous remark was "Do not do unto others that which you would not want done unto yourself. All the rest is commentary, now go and study". Let me put it another way, namely that what some sages felt the main purpose of Torah was given by God was to make us, our society, and eventually the world, more compassionate towards others and God, and also for us to be just (fair). Even though Hillel felt that this was the main brunt of Torah, nevertheless he taught that the entire Law, all 613 of them (the list was complied centuries later by Maimonides, although all of them are found in Torah as my link provided) had to be followed.

If the main purpose of sending the Torah was to bring compassion and justice, has God's purpose been achieved? Has Israel or Judah lived up to the standards set by God?

There is also a practical problem with teaching that all 613 mitzvot be followed. Quite a number of the laws are now impossible to implement because the Temple does not exist. Does this mean that a Jew automatically fails in his obedience? Does it mean that an orthodox Jew has an obligation to see the Temple in Jerusalem rebuilt?

For those of us who accept the new covenant, the Temple is in the process of being rebuilt even now. Ephesians 2:20,'Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:'
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
That is the problem. That was probably told to the direct disciples who were perfected.

First be ye perfect
. Till then:

Hypocrite! First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend's eye.
...........

When was the imposition of one's will and ignorance on others a holy command?

If it were my will, and not the will of the Lord, you would be quite within your right to point to hypocrisy. Do you have a particular complaint?
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
You are doing exactly what that video claimed Christians do. Circular reasoning to try to fit Jesus into Tanakh.

It uses the words for a real day. Anything else is just added speculation.

As to that SUN of righteousness, - it comes from Tanakh. Where we have many verses telling us straight out that they worshipped the Sun. So Sun of Righteousness is probably a carryover from those times.

This suggests that you don't really think much to the words of the Tanach. It clearly states in Malachi 4:2, 'But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.'

Who do you think this Sun of righteousness might be?
Isaiah 53:5, 'But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes are we healed.'
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
This suggests that you don't really think much to the words of the Tanach. It clearly states in Malachi 4:2, 'But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.'

Who do you think this Sun of righteousness might be?
Isaiah 53:5, 'But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes are we healed.'

Malachi is not on the Hebrew Messiah list.

The Sun of Righteousness in Malachi 4:2 is YHVH.

Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith YHVH ELOHIYM, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his /rayswings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the YHVH ELOHIYM.

*
 
Last edited:

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
Malachi is not on the Hebrew Messiah list.

The Sun of Righteousness in Malachi 4:2 is YHVH.

Malachi 4:2 may not be on the list given in Judaism 101, but I'm quite sure that is not an exhaustive list. Metis found a different list which included 17 passages from Isaiah. In reading through the list he provided, I can see that it's a mixture of first and second advent prophecies. One of the prophecies is Isaiah 53:5, which links to the prophecy in Malachi 4:2. Who will provide healing if it's not the Messiah?
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
You didn't note that Isaiah 61:2-3 is not in the JEWISH Messiah list. They know this IS NOT a Messiah prophecy.

Isaiah is wafting poetic.

Isa 61:1 The Spirit of Adonai YHVH is on me (Isaiah,) because YHVH has anointed me to preach/bring good news to the meek. He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to captives, and recovery of sight to the blind, and complete opening to the bound ones;

Isa 61:2 to proclaim the acceptable year of YHVH (The Jubilee), and the day of vengeance of our Elohiym (The day of YHVH); to comfort all who mourn;

Isa 61:3 to appoint to those who mourn in Zion, to give them beauty instead of ashes, the oil of joy instead of mourning, the mantle of praise instead of the spirit of infirmity, so that one calls them trees of righteousness, the planting of YHVH, in order to beautify Himself.

In the more comprehensive list posted by Metis, Isaiah 11:1 and Isaiah 11:2 appear. This makes sense because the verses refer to 'a rod out of the stem of Jesse'. It is, I believe, universally accepted by orthodox Jews that the coming Messiah will be a descendant of King David.
So now look at 11: 2 more closely. The wording is very important because both Isaiah 61:1 and Isaiah 11:2 use the same phrase, 'the spirit of the Lord'. In Isaiah 11:2, the spirit 'shall rest upon him' and in Isaiah 61:1 it 'is upon me' (which you claim is Isaiah). But it can't be Isaiah, because Isaiah is also the prophet speaking in 11:2 telling us that it will be 'upon him'. Isaiah is not going to say, 'the spirit shall rest upon him' referring to himself!

This means that Isaiah 61;1,2 are the words of the Messiah.
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
You may be misunderstanding the mission of Prophet Muhammad which is not unusual these days as there have been years of prejudice over a span of centuries...

I would encourage you to read the following article..

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kamran-pasha/the-mercy-of-prophet-muhammad_b_1879601.html

I did eventually get around to reading the article, thank you.

My feeling is that Muhammad may have brought about an important change in belief in Arabia, and ultimately across the world, but I still have serious misgivings about the man and his prophecy. The writer of the article continually seeks our understanding with regard to his times, and the levels of violence, wishing to make Muhammad's actions appear merciful. The butchery of the eight or so hundred Jewish men of the beni Koreiza tribe is probably the best attested of these 'merciful' acts.
I also wonder whether other people have heard stories like that of the eight Badawi Arabs who killed and mutilated one of Muhammad's camel herdsmen. In revenge Muhammad sent out twenty horsemen and captured the robbers. 'They surrounded and seized the robbers, and recovered the camels excepting one, which had been slaughtered by them. The captives were conducted to Muhammad, who was greatly exasperated at their ingratitude and savage treatment of his servant. They had merited death; but the mode in which he inflicted it was unworthy of Islam. Their arms and legs were cut off, and their eyes put out. The mutilated sightless trunks were then impaled upon the plain of Al-Ghaba (where Muhammad chanced himself to be), until life was extinct. But, on reflection, Muhammad felt that the punishment exceeded the bounds of humanity. He accordingly promulgated a law by which capital sentence is limited to simple death or crucifixion.'
Sources for this story - Ibn Hisham, p..998 f: At-Tabari, i. 1559; Al-Wakidi, p.240 f; Ibn Sa'd, p.67 f. As written by Sir William Muir, 'The Life of Muhammad'.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Malachi 4:2 may not be on the list given in Judaism 101, but I'm quite sure that is not an exhaustive list. Metis found a different list which included 17 passages from Isaiah. In reading through the list he provided, I can see that it's a mixture of first and second advent prophecies. One of the prophecies is Isaiah 53:5, which links to the prophecy in Malachi 4:2. Who will provide healing if it's not the Messiah?

They match because they are both about the suffering Jewish people.

The suffering servant is Israel. This is obvious if you read the whole book in context.


Very short video - http://jewsforjudaism.org/isaiah53/isaiah-53-53-seconds/

Isa 51:3 For the LORD shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places; and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the LORD; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody.

Isa 51:11 Therefore the redeemed of the LORD shall return, and come with singing unto Zion; and everlasting joy shall be upon their head: they shall obtain gladness and joy; and sorrow and mourning shall flee away.

Isa 51:17 Awake, awake, stand up, O Jerusalem, which hast drunk at the hand of the LORD the cup of his fury; thou hast drunken the dregs of the cup of trembling, and wrung them out.

Isa 51:19 These two things are come unto thee; who shall be sorry for thee? desolation, and destruction, and the famine, and the sword: by whom shall I comfort thee?

Isa 51:20 The sons/nation is faint, cast down/ravaged. shaken is the whole and separated, wild bulls concealed, fenced, filled with the fury of YHVH, the rebuke of Elohiym.

Isa 51:21 Therefore hear now this, thou afflicted, and drunken, but not with wine:

Isa 51:22 Thus saith thy Lord the LORD, and thy God that pleadeth the cause of his people, Behold, I have taken out of thine hand the cup of trembling, even the dregs of the cup of my fury; thou shalt no more drink it again:

Isa 51:23 But I will put it into the hand of them that afflict thee; which have said to thy soul, Bow down, that we may go over: and thou hast laid thy body as the ground, and as the street, to them that went over.

Isa 52:1 Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.

Isa 52:2 Shake thyself from the dust; arise, and sit down, O Jerusalem: loose thyself from the bands of thy neck, O captive daughter of Zion.

Isa 52:9 Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the LORD hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem.

Isa 52:10 The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.

Isa 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

Isa 53:11 He shall see light, the fruit of the travail of His soul; He shall be fully satisfied. By His knowledge shall My righteous Servant justify for many, and He shall bear their iniquities.

Isa 53:12 Because of this I will divide to him with the great, and with the strong he shall divide the spoil; because He poured out His soul to death; and He was counted with those transgressing; and He bore the sin of many, and made intercession for transgressors.

Remember Isaiah 1? And Isaiah 7? Ten tribes with a foreign power, against two?

Isa 7:1 And it happened in the days of Ahaz: the son of Jotham, the son of Uzziah, king of Judah, Rezin the king of Syria, and Pekah the son of Remaliah, king of Israel, went up to Jerusalem to war against it, but were not able to do battle against it.

Mal 4:2 But to you who fear My name, the Sun of Righteousness (YHVH) shall rise up, and healing will be on His rays/wings And you shall spread out like frisky bull calves (freed) from the stall.

*
 
Last edited:

arthra

Baha'i
Redemptionsong,

I would encourage you look further and explore more deeply into the life of Prophet Muhammad... The same biography you quote above gave an account also as follows:

"The call to arms was ordered by Mahomet. A troop of horse was immediately at the gate of the Mosque. These were despatched at once in pursuit,----Mahomet himself, with five or six hundred men following shortly after. Sad ibn Obada, with three hundred followers, remained behind, to guard the city. The advanced party hung upon the rear of the marauders, slew several of them, and recovered half of the plundered camels. On the side of the Mussulmans only one man was killed. Mahomet, with the main body, marched as far as Dzu Carad, in the direction of Kheibar; but by this time the robbers were safe in the desert among the Bani Ghatfan. The captive female effected her escape on one of the plundered camels, which she vowed, if she reached Medina in safety, to offer up as a sacrifice of thanksgiving. On acquainting Mahomet with her vow, he raffled her on the ingratitude of seeking to slay the animal which had saved her life, and which moreover was not hers to offer up. He bade her go to her home in peace."

So the accounts tell us various things..and their accuracy at this distance is speculative at best.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
In the more comprehensive list posted by Metis, Isaiah 11:1 and Isaiah 11:2 appear. This makes sense because the verses refer to 'a rod out of the stem of Jesse'. It is, I believe, universally accepted by orthodox Jews that the coming Messiah will be a descendant of King David.
So now look at 11: 2 more closely. The wording is very important because both Isaiah 61:1 and Isaiah 11:2 use the same phrase, 'the spirit of the Lord'. In Isaiah 11:2, the spirit 'shall rest upon him' and in Isaiah 61:1 it 'is upon me' (which you claim is Isaiah). But it can't be Isaiah, because Isaiah is also the prophet speaking in 11:2 telling us that it will be 'upon him'. Isaiah is not going to say, 'the spirit shall rest upon him' referring to himself!

This means that Isaiah 61;1,2 are the words of the Messiah.

The very first question becomes, who compiled the list Metis posted?

The list I gave was from the JEWISH site. It is THEIR list of Messiah verses.

Isaiah 2: 11,12 'Man's haughty look shall be brought low, And the pride of mortals shall be humbled. None but YHVH shall be exalted in that day. For YHVH of Hosts has ready a day Against all that is proud and arrogant, Against all that is lofty - so that it is brought low:.. None but YHVH shall be Exalted in that day (verse 17).

Isn't that interesting - None but YHVH shall be Exalted in that day - Not Jesus.

Why Isaiah 11:1-2 are not about Jesus is given in the video I provided. Page 8 - # 150.

And by the way, - every use of "spirit" does not have to equate to miraculous Messiah type Holy spirit.

Isa 61:1 The Spirit of Adonai YHVH is on me (Isaiah,) because YHVH has anointed me to preach/bring good news to the meek. He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to captives, and recovery of sight to the blind, and complete opening to the bound ones;

Isa 61:2 to proclaim the acceptable year of YHVH (The Jubilee), and the day of vengeance of our Elohiym (The day of YHVH); to comfort all who mourn;

*

Isa 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD (YHVH), that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

Zec 3:8Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.

Zec 6:10 Take of them of the captivity, even of Heldai, of Tobijah, and of Jedaiah, which are come from Babylon, and come thou the same day, and go into the house of Josiah the son of Zephaniah;

Zec 6:11 Then take silver and gold, and make crowns, and set them upon the head of Joshuathe son of Josedech, the high priest;

Zec 6:12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:

*
 
Last edited:

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
The very first question becomes, who compiled the list Metis posted?

The list I gave was from the JEWISH site. It is THEIR list of Messiah verses.

In the video that you posted, the Jewish speaker states very clearly that Isaiah 11:1,2 is a messianic prophecy. The timer is 51:30. Please look and listen. Will you simply say, Yes it is a messianic prophecy (if you agree)?
 
Last edited:

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
I would encourage you look further and explore more deeply into the life of Prophet Muhammad... The same biography you quote above gave an account also as follows:

"The call to arms was ordered by Mahomet. A troop of horse was immediately at the gate of the Mosque. These were despatched at once in pursuit,----Mahomet himself, with five or six hundred men following shortly after. Sad ibn Obada, with three hundred followers, remained behind, to guard the city. The advanced party hung upon the rear of the marauders, slew several of them, and recovered half of the plundered camels. On the side of the Mussulmans only one man was killed. Mahomet, with the main body, marched as far as Dzu Carad, in the direction of Kheibar; but by this time the robbers were safe in the desert among the Bani Ghatfan. The captive female effected her escape on one of the plundered camels, which she vowed, if she reached Medina in safety, to offer up as a sacrifice of thanksgiving. On acquainting Mahomet with her vow, he raffled her on the ingratitude of seeking to slay the animal which had saved her life, and which moreover was not hers to offer up. He bade her go to her home in peace."

So the accounts tell us various things..and their accuracy at this distance is speculative at best.

Arthra,
What are you saying? That the traditions passed down, which are invariably of oral tradition, are not reliable? Much of what is known about Muhammad comes from these sources. If, as I now hear some Muslims argue, the only reliable source is the Qur'an, then we have very little information about the man himself. This leaves the road open for all kinds of revisionism and lies!

I will however, make another point that I think is as damning as any other when it comes to the authenticity of the Qur'an as prophecy. Islam claims to reach back to Adam, and it states that both the Torah and Gospels are the Word of God. For Muhammad to genuinely be the final and greatest prophet, the one to unite mankind under one God, there must be prophecy of his coming amongst the earlier writings. It must not be one line, or a name that can be translated as meaning the same as Muhammad. So where are the prophecies to Muhammad in the Bible?
 
Last edited:

arthra

Baha'i
That the traditions passed down, which are invariably of oral tradition, are not reliable? Much of what is known about Muhammad comes from these sources. If, as I now hear some Muslims argue, the only reliable source is the Qur'an, then we have very little information about the man himself. This leaves the road open for all kinds of revisionism and lies!

This is why I am encouraging you to study further...if you are a serious student explore the various Sirah ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_biographies_of_Muhammad )..there are variations between Sunni and Shiah as you maybe aware.

I will however, make another point that I think is as damning as any other when it comes to the authenticity of the Qur'an as prophecy. Islam claims to reach back to Adam, and it states that both the Torah and Gospels are the Word of God. For Muhammad to genuinely be the final and greatest prophet, the one to unite mankind under one God, there must be prophecy of his coming amongst the earlier writings. It must not be one line, or a name that can be translated as meaning the same as Muhammad. So where are the prophecies to Muhammad in the Bible?

I don't think there is a "damning point" as you suggest. You write: "Islam claims to reach back to Adam"... In Arabic a "Muslim" is someone who submits to God...All the Prophets submitted to God. You are correct the Qur'an "... states that both the Torah and Gospels are the Word of God."

3 He hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture with truth, confirming that which was (revealed) before it, even as He revealed the Torah and the Gospel.

(The Qur'an (Pickthall tr), Sura 3 - The Family Of Imran)

You write:

"For Muhammad to genuinely be the final and greatest prophet, the one to unite mankind under one God, there must be prophecy of his coming amongst the earlier writings."

The Qur'an emphasizes the oneness of the Prophets:

2:130 Say ye: "We believe in God, and that which hath been sent down to us,
and that which hath been sent down to Abraham and Ismael and Isaac and Jacob
and the tribes: and that which hath been given to Moses and to Jesus, and that
which was given to the prophets from their Lord. No difference do we make
between any of them: and to God are we resigned (Muslims)."

(The Qur'an (Rodwell tr), Sura 2 - The Cow)

I believe there have been prophecies...

Regarding the significance of the Qur'an it was a revealed Word that was recited and recorded soon after it was revealed in Arabic....
 
Last edited:

atanu

Member
Premium Member
You know as well as I do that I haven't imposed anything on you. You can accept or reject as you see fit.

I do not reject any scripture. I believe strongly the following or its equivalent, found in every scripture:

Hypocrite! First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend's eye.

However, it is evident that your only intention is to impose that only NT is true scripture.
 
Last edited:

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
However, it is evident that your only intention is to impose that only NT is true scripture.

No. I believe in the whole Bible, Old Testament and New Testament, Genesis to Revelation, to be the Word of God. I believe the whole Bible to be a revelation of Jesus Christ.

You say you accept any scripture, but as I pointed out earlier Jesus Christ is a 'stumblingstone' to many because his position is uncompromising. He says,'I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me'. This is not the broad path- it's the narrow path.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
In the video that you posted, the Jewish speaker states very clearly that Isaiah 11:1,2 is a messianic prophecy. The timer is 51:30. Please look and listen. Will you simply say, Yes it is a messianic prophecy (if you agree)?

I gave you the verse that says who the Branch is.

EDIT - Thought I should add to this for clarity. Somewhere up there in my previous posts, - I pointed out that there are many other places that reference messianic times, but they are NOT actual Messianic prophecy verses. For instance you will often see "In that day," in a verse about something totally different. Where they are chiding people for instance.

*
 
Last edited:

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
2:130 Say ye: "We believe in God, and that which hath been sent down to us,
and that which hath been sent down to Abraham and Ismael and Isaac and Jacob
and the tribes: and that which hath been given to Moses and to Jesus, and that
which was given to the prophets from their Lord. No difference do we make
between any of them: and to God are we resigned (Muslims)."

(The Qur'an (Rodwell tr), Sura 2 - The Cow)

I believe there have been prophecies...

Regarding the significance of the Qur'an it was a revealed Word that was recited and recorded soon after it was revealed in Arabic....

arthra, I'd like to know what the biblical passages are that connect Muhammad to the Bible. The books of the Bible, Genesis to Revelation, took approximately 1500 years to complete, with maybe 40 different prophets involved. The Qur'an, in contrast, took 23 years to complete, and is the work of one man. If the Qur'an cannot be connected to the Bible, it stands alone without legitimacy.

I would also like to know what qualifies as true prophecy, according to Islam. In a recent book I was reading about Islam, written by a Muslim, he made the statement that all prophets are accepted as messengers of God. Not once did he raise the possibility that a prophet might be false. The quote you added above sounds similar - it aims to broaden the focus from a few legitimate prophets to ALL prophets without distinction.
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
Isa 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD (YHVH), that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

Ingledsva, this is part of the post that you provided.

There can be no doubt that both passages are referring to a future Messiah ('a King') who will be 'a rod of the stem of Jesse' and a righteous Branch from the line of David. This same Messiah will execute judgment and bring justice to the earth.
The Jewish speaker on the video says so, you agree with him, and I agree with both of you. Great.
So you also agree that the spirit of the LORD shall [future tense] 'rest upon him'. This is the word of Isaiah the prophet in chapter 11. The spirit of the Lord will rest on the Messiah.

Now look at Isaiah 61:1,2 again. This is all part of the vision that Isaiah was given. It starts with the words, 'The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me'. This CANNOT mean 'upon Isaiah'. It must mean 'upon the Messiah'.
Now you might not think that Jesus makes a legitimate claim to being the Messiah, but at least we have established that the Messiah must be the one to speak these words.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Ingledsva, this is part of the post that you provided.

There can be no doubt that both passages are referring to a future Messiah ('a King') who will be 'a rod of the stem of Jesse' and a righteous Branch from the line of David. This same Messiah will execute judgment and bring justice to the earth.
The Jewish speaker on the video says so, you agree with him, and I agree with both of you. Great.
So you also agree that the spirit of the LORD shall [future tense] 'rest upon him'. This is the word of Isaiah the prophet in chapter 11. The spirit of the Lord will rest on the Messiah.

Now look at Isaiah 61:1,2 again. This is all part of the vision that Isaiah was given. It starts with the words, 'The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me'. This CANNOT mean 'upon Isaiah'. It must mean 'upon the Messiah'.
Now you might not think that Jesus makes a legitimate claim to being the Messiah, but at least we have established that the Messiah must be the one to speak these words.

Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD (YHVH), that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

Zec 3:8Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.

Zec 6:10 Take of them of the captivity, even of Heldai, of Tobijah, and of Jedaiah, which are come from Babylon, and come thou the same day, and go into the house of Josiah the son of Zephaniah;

Zec 6:11 Then take silver and gold, and make crowns, and set them upon the head of Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest;

Zec 6:12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:

*
 
Top