God is a person

[sandy whitelinger]

i guess violent tendencies is a form of power for some

I believe it goes more toward being unlimited. To limit God to a few emotions would limit Him and He would not be all powerfull. Now, just what do you have against violent tendencies.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

So, you don't consider rage and hatred to be bad?

Doesn't it depend on context?

 

[Penumbra]

Doesn't it depend on context?

Yes, it does.

How do hatred and rage fit within the context of omnipotence?

 

[Man of Faith]

No, you just confirmed that if you didn't believe in God, you wouldn't believe that we are people.

An Atheist said that they believed that humans put personhood characteristics onto God. Humans couldn't do that unless they had personhood characteristics, hence the Atheist admitted that they accepted that humans have personhood characteristics.

The Atheist says that there is no God yet humans are people and have personhood. Those two contradict each other because in the Atheist worldview there is no foundation for personhood, there is just matter.

 

[ellenjanuary]

I believe it goes more toward being unlimited. To limit God to a few emotions would limit Him and He would not be all powerfull. Now, just what do you have against violent tendencies.

That's kinda funny. Reminds me of a kinda scientifically falsifiable truism. Ever hear the one, absolute power corrupts absolutely?

Absurd. Absolute power - conserves.

Faith of Man, a man of Word; a chip on his shoulder, a point to prove. And I, the fool in the yard; would die, to see you smile.

 

[Zadok]

I believe G-d is capable of all emotions that we are capable of and vice versa. I also believe G-d is a great being of discipline. He is the master of his emotions; never a slave of his emotions. Thus his emotions are always a strength and never a weakness.

Zadok

 

[waitasec]

I believe it goes more toward being unlimited. To limit God to a few emotions would limit Him and He would not be all powerfull.

once god unlimitedness is limited to violent tendencies, it its thusly limited.

gods vengeful wrath is there because he's jealous and insecure. how can an all powerful all knowing being be capable of such insignificant tendencies?

Now, just what do you have against violent tendencies.

"Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet, or even a whole system, is insignificant next to the power of the Force".
-vader

 

[Zadok]

Yes, it does.

How do hatred and rage fit within the context of omnipotence?

When you maintain control over them and they never have control over you. It is about discipline.

Zadok

 

[PolyHedral]

I don't believe it makes sense for an omnipotent God to experience negative emotion at all. I'm not entirely sure that an omnipotent God would experience comprehensible emotions at all, since there's no reason for Him to.

Also, you guys talking about discipline: Why on earth would God have discipline? He's God, he has infinite foresight and infinite control. It is physically impossible for him to make a mistake.

 

[Penumbra]

When you maintain control over them and they never have control over you. It is about discipline.

Zadok

Why the need for god to maintain control over anyone? That sounds like insecurity and manipulation.

And to what end is discipline in the context of god necessary?

 

[ellenjanuary]

Why the need for god to maintain control over anyone? That sounds like insecurity and manipulation.

And to what end is discipline in the context of god necessary?

It's a scaling error. Only two people ever lived - me and you. Book says, have no god before me; therefore I am your god and you are mine. When we separate, you are alone with god. Does your better instinct prevail? Invariably.

Without god, there is only self; but that's just cliche. Those that "are self" often do fine. it's those that "are god," stirring up all the ruckus.

 

[Falvlun]

An Atheist said that they believed that humans put personhood characteristics onto God. Humans couldn't do that unless they had personhood characteristics, hence the Atheist admitted that they accepted that humans have personhood characteristics.

The Atheist says that there is no God yet humans are people and have personhood. Those two contradict each other because in the Atheist worldview there is no foundation for personhood, there is just matter.

There is nothing about the atheistic worldview that would deny the existence of personhood. Let's look up a few defintions of "person" from dictionary.com:

1. a human being, whether man, woman, or child: The table seats four persons.
2. a human being as distinguished from an animal or a thing.
3. Sociology . an individual human being, esp. with reference to his or her social relationships and behavioral patterns as conditioned by the culture.
4. Philosophy . a self-conscious or rational being.
5. the actual self or individual personality of a human being: You ought not to generalize, but to consider the person you are dealing with.
6. Law. a human being (natural person) or a group of human beings, a corporation, a partnership, an estate, or other legal entity (artificial person or juristic person) recognized by law as having rights and duties.

I agree with all of those definitions of "person", and not one of them is compromised by my lack of belief in a god. Note in particular the sociology, philosophy, and law defintions.

You seem to be under the illusion that if one believes that only matter exists, then it must follow that everything reacts as if it were a rock. Conciousness and self-awareness are commonly described as emergent properties of a physical, material thing: the brain. Matter is so much more versatile than simple, passive rockdom.

 

[Father Heathen]

Other than calling the Almighty a cartoon character, this is right on.

Perhaps you didn't pay close enough attention; I didn't call "god" a cartoon character, I called people's portrayal of god a cartoon character.

 

[Man of Faith]

There is nothing about the atheistic worldview that would deny the existence of personhood. Let's look up a few defintions of "person" from dictionary.com:

1. a human being, whether man, woman, or child: The table seats four persons.
2. a human being as distinguished from an animal or a thing.
3. Sociology . an individual human being, esp. with reference to his or her social relationships and behavioral patterns as conditioned by the culture.
4. Philosophy . a self-conscious or rational being.
5. the actual self or individual personality of a human being: You ought not to generalize, but to consider the person you are dealing with.
6. Law. a human being (natural person) or a group of human beings, a corporation, a partnership, an estate, or other legal entity (artificial person or juristic person) recognized by law as having rights and duties.

I agree with all of those definitions of "person", and not one of them is compromised by my lack of belief in a god. Note in particular the sociology, philosophy, and law defintions.

You seem to be under the illusion that if one believes that only matter exists, then it must follow that everything reacts as if it were a rock. Conciousness and self-awareness are commonly described as emergent properties of a physical, material thing: the brain. Matter is so much more versatile than simple, passive rockdom.

I didn't say that Atheists deny personhood, what I said was that there is no foundation for personhood in the Atheists worldview. Sure Atheists accept personhood but they have to borrow from the Christian worldview in order to do that. This is not a conscious decision, borrowing from the Christian worldview that is. The Atheist, at least the ones in America and Europe, have been living under the laws and morals of Christianity for so long, they don’t even realize when they are going against their own worldview.

I don’t even believe that most Atheists understand or would want to truly live in a country that adheres to their own worldview. It would be a scary way of life indeed. Look at Russia and the millions killed under Stalin, look at North Korea. Only Communist and socialist states promote atheism and are the most suppressors of individual freedoms and personhood. Apart from God, man is just a higher order of animal and personal existence is a temporary evolutionary fluke in an impersonal universe. If there is no God then living things are not divinely created and have no intrinsic value, they are looked on as to only what they can contribute to society. The young and the old suffer and are cast aside.

 

[Sunstone]

God is not a person, but the name some folks give to a kind or type of experience.

 

[Amill]

Apart from God, man is just a higher order of animal and personal existence is a temporary evolutionary fluke in an impersonal universe. If there is no God then living things are not divinely created and have no intrinsic value, they are looked on as to only what they can contribute to society. The young and the old suffer and are cast aside.

Well, since we already exist without a god, how come we don't notice this going on? People have no trouble projecting value onto things and others, and I see plenty of younger and older human beings living happily.

use their name while cursing

I can't imagine being upset about my name being used while cursing. But I judge the language people use based on the intent and meaning the person puts behind them, not the words they choose themselves. If someone wants to say "Aaron dangit", ok

 

[Man of Faith]

Well, since we already exist without a god, how come we don't notice this going on? People have no trouble projecting value onto things and others, and I see plenty of younger and older human beings living happily.


I can't imagine being upset about my name being used while cursing. But I judge the language people use based on the intent and meaning the person puts behind them, not the words they choose themselves. If someone wants to say "Aaron dangit", ok

Because most governments don't adhere to atheism and most people believe in God.

 

[Penumbra]

I didn't say that Atheists deny personhood, what I said was that there is no foundation for personhood in the Atheists worldview. Sure Atheists accept personhood but they have to borrow from the Christian worldview in order to do that. This is not a conscious decision, borrowing from the Christian worldview that is. The Atheist, at least the ones in America and Europe, have been living under the laws and morals of Christianity for so long, they don’t even realize when they are going against their own worldview.

I don’t even believe that most Atheists understand or would want to truly live in a country that adheres to their own worldview. It would be a scary way of life indeed. Look at Russia and the millions killed under Stalin, look at North Korea. Only Communist and socialist states promote atheism and are the most suppressors of individual freedoms and personhood. Apart from God, man is just a higher order of animal and personal existence is a temporary evolutionary fluke in an impersonal universe. If there is no God then living things are not divinely created and have no intrinsic value, they are looked on as to only what they can contribute to society. The young and the old suffer and are cast aside.

Sweden is one of the most secular countries in the world and one of the most successful. That society takes care of its people more than, say, a country like the US.

In addition, your posts seem fairly ethnocentric. If atheists were to borrow from a religion, why would it be Christianity? Why not Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, etc?

 

[Man of Faith]

Sweden is one of the most secular countries in the world and one of the most successful. That society takes care of its people more than, say, a country like the US.

In addition, your posts seem fairly ethnocentric. If atheists were to borrow from a religion, why would it be Christianity? Why not Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, etc?

The Swedish government does not promote atheism, you can call the US government secular today but we have freedom of religion and most people believe in God and believe that we have a value because of that. Like I said in a previous post, if you want freedom, then you want to live in a country that promotes freedom of religion. Freedom doesn’t happen in a country that promotes atheism.

We can look at the country of Albania that went atheist after WWII. Article 37 of the Albanian Constitution of 1976 stipulated, "The State recognizes no religion, and supports atheistic propaganda in order to implant a scientific materialistic world outlook in people.", and the penal code of 1977 imposed prison sentences of three to ten years for "religious propaganda and the production, distribution, or storage of religious literature." Many religious people and those that supported them were jailed and killed. China is an official atheist state and look at the human rights abuses there.

 

[Penumbra]

The Swedish government does not promote atheism, you can call the US government secular today but we have freedom of religion and most people believe in God and believe that we have a value because of that. Like I said in a previous post, if you want freedom, then you want to live in a country that promotes freedom of religion. Freedom doesn’t happen in a country that promotes atheism.

We can look at the country of Albania that went atheist after WWII. Article 37 of the Albanian Constitution of 1976 stipulated, "The State recognizes no religion, and supports atheistic propaganda in order to implant a scientific materialistic world outlook in people.", and the penal code of 1977 imposed prison sentences of three to ten years for "religious propaganda and the production, distribution, or storage of religious literature." Many religious people and those that supported them were jailed and killed. China is an official atheist state and look at the human rights abuses there.

It's a false comparison to compare countries that force any particular viewpoint to countries that allow freedom of viewpoints.

There are secular countries, like Sweden, where religion does not have a strong influence on the population and yet the population flourishes. In fact, sometimes it flourishes above and beyond any religious country.