You make statements about it as if it were your god.
We won't be judged by it in my understanding. We will be judged by God in my understanding. The Bible is a book and not a deity.
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God is disproven by science? Really?
- Thread starter MrIntelligentDesign
- Start date
I was reading back through this and, yeah, I find claims by some that they are the "voice" of God to be offensive. You are essentially saying the same to me, because I believe, but differently than you. The evidence of your posts indicates that you are offended by any view that deviates from your own. You don't consider me a Christian and have said so. But you are not the judge of who is and who isn't Saved and Christian. You are just some random dude with an opinion to me. I don't personally care that you hold the views you do for yourself. I consider you free to. But you don't have any authority to hold others in judgement for not sharing them.
I find it amusing that you, a human, can claim to know things and have learned them about the world around you. But, at the same time, deny that others can and have, simply because what they have learned doesn't mesh with your personal interpretation of reality. It is a delicious irony that I doubt you are even aware of.
Where is your evidence of God?
Where is the evidence that your preferred record of God's word is more likely correct than any of the other sacred writings, of the many other religions?
You seem to feel that God will reveal himself to sincere seekers. Believers in a thousand other mythologies feel the same way, yet their searches come to radically different conclusions. What is the evidence that your interpretation is based on, which other faiths lack?
Do you consider feelings reliable epistemic evidence? Do you have anything more?
There are dozens of scriptures. Why do you accept only those included in today's Bibles?
Morality? Biblical morality is all over the board, and is often inconsistent with today's notions of right, wrong, or fairness.
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Maybe, maybe not. You don't know. Nobody does. We can only estimate the probabilities of any given claim about Jesus being history.
Either way, the answer is irrelevant to an unbeliever, who rejects the supernatural claims made about Jesus such as born of a virgin, turned water to wine, raised others from the dead and then then was allegedly raised from the dead himself, what fraction of the remaining story of Jesus is history and how much is fiction.
It's arrogant to claim that you know that scripture was written by anybody other than human beings like all other books, all other writing, and all other linguistic thought spoken or written. You only believe that, and there is good evidence that you are wrong. It's arrogant that you think you know more about gods than an atheist does, or what was written by a god. You say things about gods and scripture like they're facts. If you wanted to appear less arrogant, you could have started that out with, "We believe that the is a god and that he gave us the Christian Bible," but you stated it as fact.
Sure you do. Scripture says not to kill but every believer decides for himself what that means. Or honor a parent means. Or whether Jesus is a god or not. Some of you decide to take scripture literally and others pick parts to call allegory.
I wasn't living life to the max as a Christian. Nor was my life full. It became that when my values changed upon leaving that culture and its moral code. I took good advantage of the new freedoms I had, such as the freedom to not go to church every week, and to stop reading scripture and begin learning about how the world really works and read more useful things. Art, music, fine dining, and travel took a much greater role in my life then and now. I was free to marry my wife of over thirty years, and she was willing to marry me, but would not have been if I were still living that religious life. I was free to live childfree, and to stop giving money to churches and retire earlier because of that.
Please stop preaching, Elisha. And if you insist on quoting sources, please give some evidence that they're authoritative or factual. I could cite sources claiming that elves return to Valinor when their work in Middle Earth is done. Would you accept my sources? Why not? What would make your sources more reliable than mine?
These are fantastical claims -- hearsay many times told and retold.
Anyone can write a book making fantastic claims. Don't all religions do so? How is one to decide what claims are reliable without objective evidence? You've cited none for your biblical references.
All the faithful of most religions seek God with all their hearts, do they not? Why do they find different Gods; different truths?
You're saying you must already have faith to see the truth of that faith; that God reveals Himself only to those who already believe in Him. What sort of epistemology is this? Feelings are not evidence. Every claim feels right to the believer.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
There might be no need for the Jesus of Christianity, the Jesus that atones for the original sin of Adam and Eve, but that doesn't mean that there was no need for the real Jesus.
ElishaElijah
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That’s the beauty of freedom of information and speech, look up the information and do what you want with it and vice versa. All the sources I posted can be looked up and verified.
ElishaElijah
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I’m giving my experience and what God has shown me, what do I have to do with other religions, religion is dead works and rules except what the Bible says is true religion in the Book of James.
Funny how people on here preach evolution and have a problem he someone actually shares what God did in their life.
Keep on whatever path you want, I’m glad you found the meaning and purpose why we are here, I just found that path empty and a lie.
ElishaElijah
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ElishaElijah
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Just my opinion and observations: Seems like everyone wants to talk about Jesus Christ nowadays, I hear many people saying his name all day long, in the stores, on the job, everywhere. I don’t blame people He is that Awesome. So, in keeping with the thread…that shows intelligence and there must be something to God for everyone.
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What would the need for "the real Jesus" be?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
For the teachings He gave us.
Sources other than scripture?
If scripture is what you're referring to, how would it be verified?
You're giving an experience, with no objective support, and you're attributing it to God.
I don't doubt you had an experience you found significant, but your attribution is questionable. Don't people have these experiences all the time? Don't their attributions and significances vary?
Nobody's "preaching" evolution. Evolution is an established, empirical fact. Your experience as evidence for God, is not, and doesn't follow.
Path? Scientific knowledge isn't a path. It's not supposed to provide meaning or purpose.
ElishaElijah
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Why you get upset about it and even comment?
And what is this evidence of? It mentions known historical events and a group known as Christians. It is not evidence of who or what Christ was, or what Christians believed of behaved. It just reports the gossip of the day.Here’s 1 from what I posted about Jesus:
Tacitus on Jesus - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
I guess you're hanging out with a different crowd. The only Occasion I ever hear talk of Jesus is here in RF.
What exactly is awesome about Jesus? Is he more awesome than Batman, or Gandalf the Grey?
I'm not upset, and I comment because this is a chat room, where people come to exchange and discuss ideas.
ElishaElijah
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This is just one of many people who recorded events concerning Jesus, it is funny how you dismiss all these testimonies of actual people in history but would build a whole godless view of creation on a theory by observing small changes in birds or other animals interpreting and extrapolating that into saying all of creation happened without God from what? Abiogenesis that can’t be proven or even close? Or was that another word science came up with because the original idea of evolution was found to be an impossibility.
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ElishaElijah
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I have never known a person who doesn’t take God’s name in vain, they mention His name all day long for one reason or another, some blessing His name some as a curse.
You’re talking about Him on here listening to what I have to say and mentioning His Name.
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ElishaElijah
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Thanks for asking,
Jesus Christ is awesome because of this and without Him everyone would be lost and spend eternity apart from the light of God in the Lake of Fire.
”We give thanks to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of your love for all the saints; because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth fruit, as it is also among you since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth; as you also learned from Epaphras, our dear fellow servant, who is a faithful minister of Christ on your behalf, who also declared to us your love in the Spirit. For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; strengthened with all might, according to His glorious power, for all patience and longsuffering with joy; giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light. He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross. And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.“
Colossians 1:3-23 NKJV
”Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.” Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.” And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”“
Revelation 21:1-8 NKJV
”But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.“
Hebrews 9:11-15 NKJV