God Is Not A Tolerant God

[doppelganger]

Bejuzalbert. You figure out what it means.

I have no reason to.

You have an inaccurate and incomplete view of the God of the Bible.

Who said anything about the "God of the Bible"? Not me.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Almost certainly.

And I probably don't care.

 

[doppelganger]

And I probably don't care.

Ah . . . now you know I feel about your attempts to actualize my reality for me by getting me to parrot some words and ideas about "Jesus".

You're catching on, Sandy. :yes:

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Ah . . . now you know I feel about your attempts to actualize my reality for me by getting me to parrot some words and ideas about "Jesus".

You're catching on, Sandy. :yes:

Yet you live in your own little world where things mean whatever you wish them to mean and have no foundation in concrete reality. Until you catch on to that you won't even be playing on the same field as the other players in the game, much less by the same rules. On the other hand Lala Land has it's advantages.

 

[Darkness]

God is never described in scripture as being tolerant. He is longsuffering though. These two traits should not be confused.

Which brings us back to God being a cosmic tyrant who demands slavish obedience to His will, irregardless of sanity or reason. Slaughter an entire city of people? "Sure! After all, kindness and respecting other's freedoms merely get in the way of serving God. All people deserve to die merely for not being perfect, even though God created them that way. Ah... I thought an impure thought. God please help me to blind what my reasons tells me. Help me to block out all thoughts of compassion and love towards the ungodly masses! Anyone who is not perfect deserves eternal torture! Good is whatever God does and everything else is evil!"

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Which brings us back to God being a cosmic tyrant who demands slavish obedience to His will, irregardless of sanity or reason. Slaughter an entire city of people? "Sure! After all, kindness and respecting other's freedoms merely get in the way of serving God. All people deserve to die merely for not being perfect, even though God created them that way. Ah... I thought an impure thought. God please help me to blind what my reasons tells me. Help me to block out all thoughts of compassion and love towards the ungodly masses! Anyone who is not perfect deserves eternal torture! Good is whatever God does and everything else is evil!"

Which brings me back to your incoplete knowlege and/or description of the God of the Bible.

 

[yossarian22]

Which brings me back to your incoplete knowlege and/or description of the God of the Bible.

Which brings us back to the sheer incompetence of god.
He isn't even cut out to be a bureaucrat

 

[Darkness]

Which brings me back to your incoplete knowlege and/or description of the God of the Bible.

Slavish Obedience to His Will:

Genesis 22:1-2 (King James Version)
And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham... Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

Slaughter of Innocents:

1 Samuel 15:2-3 (King James Version)
Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ***.

No Religious Freedom:

Leviticus 24:16 (King James Version)
And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death.

Need I continue. My words are not hollow, nor do I minunderstand the God of the Bible. I see Him for who He truly is.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Not really let's start with the definition.

From Merriam Webster:
Main Entry: 1god
Pronunciation: 'gäd also 'god
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English; akin to Old High German got god
1 capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind
2 : a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality
3 : a person or thing of supreme value
4 : a powerful ruler

Nowhere is God defined as a product of human action, feeling or thought. This disproves both your ideas of definition and experience.

Number 1 (b), and number 3. But really all them are, as these definitions are products of human action, feeling, and thought. We define what we experience, and vice-versa. The drug is decided which precedes which.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

In other words, we create God? If He is a reflection of my inner world, then He's not God because He's reflecting me. In actuality, wouldn't that make me God?

A reflection is an interaction between the object being reflected and the thing reflecting. My face in the mirror is both me and the mirror. It is a relationship.

So really, this is saying that God is both my "inner world" and the "outer world" (the supreme or ultimate reality--see Sandy Whitlinger's post, definition #1), and is a relationship between "me" and the "ultimate reality."

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Yet you live in your own little world where things mean whatever you wish them to mean and have no foundation in concrete reality.

We all live in our own little worlds. They are symbolic playgrounds where our minds leap from one association to another.

Concrete "reality" as we know it is only a piece of the real reality.

 

[Ringer]

Slavish Obedience to His Will:

Genesis 22:1-2 (King James Version)
And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham... Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

Slaughter of Innocents:

1 Samuel 15:2-3 (King James Version)
Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ***.

No Religious Freedom:

Leviticus 24:16 (King James Version)
And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death.

Need I continue. My words are not hollow, nor do I minunderstand the God of the Bible. I see Him for who He truly is.

Not these again. Perhaps you need to start taking these biblical stories and taking them into context.


Slavish Obedience to His Will
15 The angel of the LORD called to Abraham from heaven a second time 16 and said, "I swear by myself, declares the LORD, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, 18 and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me."

What an evil master the slave Abraham serves.

Slaughter of Innocents
I've already commented on this one but you choose not to see it for it is. Maybe you need to understand that the Amalekites are responsible for their actions and are not exempt from punishment. Sometimes, the heirs of certain groups are effected by the
sins of their forefathers. You see the same thing in our culture and also on an individual basis all the time. I'll stop there since it's probably falling on deaf ears anyway. You can go ahead and keep your head buried in the sand and run with your idea though. You have that right.

No Religious Freedom
I don't see how this chosen passage you have deal with religious freedom. This deals more with the Israelites obeying the commandments that God gave to them. The way understand it, the Israelites have a lasting covenant with God and are promised to be blessed beyond measure. However, with whom much is given, much is also expected. This covenant and the blessings they will receive require a matching obedience. Maybe God chose to make an example of the Israelite's son. Again, I can't answer for God but I'd be willing to bet that the Israelites at that camp weren't serving God out of fear. I would bet they were serving Him out of the promise of a better life for them and their descendents.

Maybe someone can tackle these from a different angle but I tried. Maybe Darkness you can find examples from the NT that support these claims? Not that I have a problem with the OT but these examples require a certain mindset that I tried explaining a little in my post.

 

[Darkness]

Slavish Obedience to His Will
15 The angel of the LORD called to Abraham from heaven a second time 16 and said, "I swear by myself, declares the LORD, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, 18 and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me."

What an evil master the slave Abraham serves.

It is the idea behind it. God wants to see if Abraham will kill an innocent in His Name.

Slaughter of Innocents
I've already commented on this one but you choose not to see it for it is. Maybe you need to understand that the Amalekites are responsible for their actions and are not exempt from punishment. Sometimes, the heirs of certain groups are effected by the
sins of their forefathers. You see the same thing in our culture and also on an individual basis all the time. I'll stop there since it's probably falling on deaf ears anyway. You can go ahead and keep your head buried in the sand and run with your idea though. You have that right.

So every Citizen in Amalek is responsible for the actions of the military? Every citizen that was killed also made the conscious decision to kill the innocent Israelis? What God is advocating here, is collective punishment and the inhumane slaughter of innocent civilians. Twist it anyway you want, that fact is as plain as day.

No Religious Freedom
I don't see how this chosen passage you have deal with religious freedom. This deals more with the Israelites obeying the commandments that God gave to them. The way understand it, the Israelites have a lasting covenant with God and are promised to be blessed beyond measure. However, with whom much is given, much is also expected. This covenant and the blessings they will receive require a matching obedience. Maybe God chose to make an example of the Israelite's son. Again, I can't answer for God but I'd be willing to bet that the Israelites at that camp weren't serving God out of fear. I would bet they were serving Him out of the promise of a better life for them and their descendents.

Has every Israeli asked for this special blessing? What we have here is very simple. If you insult God (blaspheme God) you die. That doesn't seem liked religious freedom to me. If you wish to say it is only for the Israeli's of that time period you would have to claim Moral Relativism.

 

[Ringer]

So every Citizen in Amalek is responsible for the actions of the military? Every citizen that was killed also made the conscious decision to kill the innocent Israelis? What God is advocating here, is collective punishment and the inhumane slaughter of innocent civilians. Twist it anyway you want, that fact is as plain as day.

What you seem to be advocating is that the killing of the Amalekite dependents was a punishment to them. I don't believe that was the case but it was a consequence of the punishment of the fathers of the Amalekites that had repeatedly attacked the Israeli innocent for 200-400 years. Morally there is a big difference.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Slavish Obedience to His Will:

Genesis 22:1-2 (King James Version)
And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham... Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

Slaughter of Innocents:

1 Samuel 15:2-3 (King James Version)
Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ***.

No Religious Freedom:

Leviticus 24:16 (King James Version)
And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death.

Need I continue. My words are not hollow, nor do I minunderstand the God of the Bible. I see Him for who He truly is.

Well of course you can try and sum up God in three verses if you wish but will fail. Try the complete scriputes.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

We all live in our own little worlds. They are symbolic playgrounds where our minds leap from one association to another.

Concrete "reality" as we know it is only a piece of the real reality.

A complete nosequitor to our discussion and a further bunny trail from the OP.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Number 1 (b), and number 3. But really all them are, as these definitions are products of human action, feeling, and thought. We define what we experience, and vice-versa. The drug is decided which precedes which.

Yet the origin of the reaction begins outside of ourselves. Failing to realize this only leads to creating your version of something that originates with yourself. A shallow misrepresentation of the complex God whom created the universe.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

A reflection is an interaction between the object being reflected and the thing reflecting. My face in the mirror is both me and the mirror. It is a relationship.

So really, this is saying that God is both my "inner world" and the "outer world" (the supreme or ultimate reality--see Sandy Whitlinger's post, definition #1), and is a relationship between "me" and the "ultimate reality."

Total mumbo jumbo. God is not you nor the reflection of Him that you see. He is certainly not a relationship. He is a stand-alone complete being whom existed before you did and exists completetly without you.

 

[Darkness]

What you seem to be advocating is that the killing of the Amalekite dependents was a punishment to them. I don't believe that was the case but it was a consequence of the punishment of the fathers of the Amalekites that had repeatedly attacked the Israeli innocent for 200-400 years. Morally there is a big difference.

Are you saying children should be punished for their Father's sins? Truly that paragraph didn't make much sense to me.

Well of course you can try and sum up God in three verses if you wish but will fail. Try the complete scriputes.

Well, either those things happened or they didn't. If they did, God is a madman. There is no way around that with my moral codes.

 

[!Fluffy!]

I don't think God has any truck with such things, just as we human parents do not approve of our children smoking, doing drugs, or drinking. But we don't kill our children because of these things.

How many of you, if your daughter came home knocked up, would turn her out and disown her? You'd be disappointed. You'd be sad. You'd be concerned for her and her baby. But you wouldn't condemn her.

Neither does God condemn us. God's patience always overcomes God's wrath. it is the act of doing these things that necessitates grace. "Who is more in need of grace," Jesus asks us? "One who sins much, or one who is righteous?"

Once again, I fear that some suffer from "Bible-in-mouth disease."

Way cool, sojourner. couldn't have put it better myself.