God/Jesus sinned. Genocide is a sin of high order.

[Greatest I am]

I think, though, that a human who kills ants because they offend his sense of righteousness, or because they haven't offered him the worship he believes to be his due, is bound to be a severely disordered human.

There must be something wrong with you if you cannot follow a genacidal Jesus/God maniac.

Just kidding. Keep up the good logic. People are good, sheeple are not.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

but see, the human did not create the ants. the human isn't innately familiar with the inner workings of the ant colony, the thoughs and doings of the ants, or the ultimate fate of the ant population, both internally and in relation to the surrounding envirnonemnts. that's the difference. God knows both us, and the ants, with the same scope and insight, a scope which no human can have, even in relation to ants.

If you change the word human for God and the word ant for men, you can say exactly the same thing.

You just made someone elses point and killed your own. Let's see if you have the whit to see it.

The God of ants is an ant.
The God of lions is a lion.
The God of men must be a man.

This is exactly what you said yet you follow an alien God and a genocidal maniac at that. Strange.


Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

In God's image is not an equivalence sign. God =/= humans. Our reflection is in the image of us, does it mean that its equivalent? We apply rules to other animals that we ourselves don't follow. A dog attacks a human, the dog gets put down, a human attacks another human, we go to jail.

Again, you're lowering God's status. And you're also not considering how it's logically impossible for God to sin, if we assume the Bible's definition.

OK then killing humans is not a sin. Good assumption.

Jesus said that to even think of a sin is as good as doing it.

Did Jesus/God not think of killing? Did they not do it?

Do as I say and not as I do is poor policy for a law maker.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

When somebody gets killed there spirit is not hidden from god, or destroyed. So if people during the flood were killed their spirits were not destroyed, so they were not spiritually 'no more', though they did not have a body any longer. And since god is a spirit and all of us have spirits it matters not whether we are in a body or not, god is able to see all spirits be they within a body or not. Naturally dead or not.

Yes and all those perfect works of God all went to hell for our entertainment.

Nice view you have.

This somehow justifies the killing of children and babies?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

"the LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time... now the earth was corrupt in God's sight and was full of violence. God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways. (Genesis 6)"

Children and babies are people too.

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Perfect chilren and babies right? Or were they corrupt as well?

Regards
DL

 

[Heneni]

Yes and all those perfect works of God all went to hell for our entertainment.

Nice view you have.

This somehow justifies the killing of children and babies?

Regards
DL

The idea that god can kill or murder is moot. When the spirit leaves the body its still where god can find it. So...at the moment there is no dead spirit (though dead to us) but not dead as in destroyed. So if god chooses to let your spirit leave this body...so what..it goes somewhere else. When the spirit leaves the body we call it death. When the spirit leaves the body god considers it a matter of logistics. To you they are dead, to god they are not. So if the spirit of a baby leaves the baby, the body is dead but the spirit is living. So your judgement of god being a genocidal killer is moot.

And since god is the creator of all spirits he has the ability to do with it what he wishes. You might not be happy with his sovereignity, but that doesnt change the fact that he is sovereign.

He might even decide to destroy some spiritual beings at some point. Which he is well allowed to do, since he created it. And since the creation does not have the right to tell the creator whats what...i think your barking up a tree here that wont budge.

To you god is a genocidal murderer. What you really should be asking yourelf is what are you to him?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The idea that god can kill or murder is moot. When the spirit leaves the body its still where god can find it. So...at the moment there is no dead spirit (though dead to us) but not dead as in destroyed. So if god chooses to let your spirit leave this body...so what..it goes somewhere else. When the spirit leaves the body we call it death. When the spirit leaves the body god considers it a matter of logistics. To you they are dead, to god they are not. So if the spirit of a baby leaves the baby, the body is dead but the spirit is living. So your judgement of god being a genocidal killer is moot.

If that's true, it's true of all death, not just deaths caused directly by the hand of God. If death is just "a matter of logistics" and doesn't kill the spirit, then not even a genocidal murderer is a genocidal murderer.

In that case, your judgement of the genocidal killer is moot as well, and therefore it remains appropriate to compare him with God.

 

[roli]

God/Jesus sinned. Genocide is a sin of high order.

This is a truth.

I will entertain opposing views.

Regards
DL

God wiped out all creation once and there is no plausable explanation, at least in the human rationale.
Do we know what true and absolute justice is?
Do we know what aboslute truth is?

Would you say the same about a king who's subject you are, if he destroyed your enimies for your ultimate good.
Would you slay a family/ group etc. who were inflicting war or bloodshed upon your own family

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

God wiped out all creation once and there is no plausable explanation, at least in the human rationale.

Sure there is. I can think of two right off the top of my head:

- God exists and is evil.
- The flood never happened. God never wiped out all creation.

Do we know what true and absolute justice is?
Do we know what aboslute truth is?

Yes, and yes: fictional human concepts.

Would you say the same about a king who's subject you are, if he destroyed your enimies for your ultimate good.
Would you slay a family/ group etc. who were inflicting war or bloodshed upon your own family

That implies that sinners are a threat to God. How can anything be a threat to God?

 

[Scuba Pete]

As I read this thread it becomes obvious that the thrust of a few is to cajole Jews and Christians for following a genocidal maniac.

You have to realize, that THIS is the best that they can do. So, all you will get are those who are uber willing to cast aspersions and to what end? So that they can feel superior? There is obviously no willingness on the part of the OP to understand WHY we believe, so I must conclude that this is nothing more than a troll. I don't know about you, but I have fed this troll quite enough, and he still hasn't answered any of my points.

 

[Heneni]

If that's true, it's true of all death, not just deaths caused directly by the hand of God. If death is just "a matter of logistics" and doesn't kill the spirit, then not even a genocidal murderer is a genocidal murderer.

In that case, your judgement of the genocidal killer is moot as well, and therefore it remains appropriate to compare him with God.

People dont have the right to kill people and think...its just a matter of logistics. Cause they are not god. So i think you have misunderstood.

To god all things are alive. To us they are not. All death is not the same, because to us they are gone, to god they are not. You dont have the right to kill someone...therefore remove their spirits out of their bodies. God can do with a spirit whatever HE wants. HE made it..you didnt.

Heneni

 

[Heneni]

As I read this thread it becomes obvious that the thrust of a few is to cajole Jews and Christians for following a genocidal maniac.

You have to realize, that THIS is the best that they can do. So, all you will get are those who are uber willing to cast aspersions and to what end? So that they can feel superior? There is obviously no willingness on the part of the OP to understand WHY we believe, so I must conclude that this is nothing more than a troll. I don't know about you, but I have fed this troll quite enough, and he still hasn't answered any of my points.

I agree with you. I dont post for the sake of greatest I am, which i have long before figured to be a troll, i post for the sake of other who reads his/her drivel.


Heneni

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

People dont have the right to kill people and think...its just a matter of logistics. Cause they are not god. So i think you have misunderstood.

No, I think I do understand: special pleading.

To god all things are alive. To us they are not.

But to you they are - you just told us that all things are alive. That means that now, to us, they are as well.

Things are either alive after they die or they're not.

All death is not the same, because to us they are gone, to god they are not.

Ah... now solipsism. "I can't see it, therefore it doesn't exist."

You dont have the right to kill someone...therefore remove their spirits out of their bodies. God can do with a spirit whatever HE wants. HE made it..you didnt.

That's not really the position you were arguing though, was it? And I think the question of whether God has the right to do with a spirit whatever He wants is very much the issue of this thread. So far, it seems to me that the matter is far from settled.

 

[Eddy Daze]

[/quote]That's not really the position you were arguing though, was it? And I think the question of whether God has the right to do with a spirit whatever He wants is very much the issue of this thread. So far, it seems to me that the matter is far from settled.[/quote]

Can we as faulty beings judge a perfect father's actions? suffering and learning go hand in hand, also s enjoyment.

If we think of these bodies we inhabit as temporary instruments then it is not so bad after all, but the idea would be to use the will to get free of the temporary arrangement and remain in our permanent state.

 

[Heneni]

That's not really the position you were arguing though, was it? And I think the question of whether God has the right to do with a spirit whatever He wants is very much the issue of this thread. So far, it seems to me that the matter is far from settled.

God is the creator of all spirits. Therefore the matter is settled for me. Perhaps you need to settle the matter of whether god exists first? Before you also make him out to be a genocidal murderer.

 

[Scuba Pete]

I agree Eddy... it's truly a matter of perspective. If this is your ONLY chance at life, then death looks cruel. Yet without death, there can be no evolution and no us.

People want to know why death is so painful. It's a bio-feedback for us so we don't go there any sooner than we have to.

 

[Greatest I am]

The idea that god can kill or murder is moot. When the spirit leaves the body its still where god can find it. So...at the moment there is no dead spirit (though dead to us) but not dead as in destroyed. So if god chooses to let your spirit leave this body...so what..it goes somewhere else. When the spirit leaves the body we call it death. When the spirit leaves the body god considers it a matter of logistics. To you they are dead, to god they are not. So if the spirit of a baby leaves the baby, the body is dead but the spirit is living. So your judgement of god being a genocidal killer is moot.

And since god is the creator of all spirits he has the ability to do with it what he wishes. You might not be happy with his sovereignity, but that doesnt change the fact that he is sovereign.

He might even decide to destroy some spiritual beings at some point. Which he is well allowed to do, since he created it. And since the creation does not have the right to tell the creator whats what...i think your barking up a tree here that wont budge.

To you god is a genocidal murderer. What you really should be asking yourelf is what are you to him?

Not much if he can drown millions of us.

Genocide is moot. Tell the Jews that.
If you can sit back and let your God kill humans then keep him. Mine loves us. Killing is a sign of hate. Moot to you but important to a soul.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

God wiped out all creation once and there is no plausable explanation, at least in the human rationale.
Do we know what true and absolute justice is?
Do we know what aboslute truth is?

Would you say the same about a king who's subject you are, if he destroyed your enimies for your ultimate good.
Would you slay a family/ group etc. who were inflicting war or bloodshed upon your own family

You speak of violence against an enemy.
If a king destroyed his own people he too would be guilty of genocide.

As God's perfect works, how can we be his enemy? Why would he produce enemies?

What is His creation song.

Il make you just to kill you, Il make you just to kill you, Il make you just to kill you today.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

As I read this thread it becomes obvious that the thrust of a few is to cajole Jews and Christians for following a genocidal maniac.

You have to realize, that THIS is the best that they can do. So, all you will get are those who are uber willing to cast aspersions and to what end? So that they can feel superior? There is obviously no willingness on the part of the OP to understand WHY we believe, so I must conclude that this is nothing more than a troll. I don't know about you, but I have fed this troll quite enough, and he still hasn't answered any of my points.

Points, what points.

I do not cajole, I want to know why Christians would follow one who kills humans constantly and why follow a law maker who breaks his own laws.

Seems like a worthy question. Fear seems like the only answer. Fear of a God of love. Go figure.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

People dont have the right to kill people and think...its just a matter of logistics. Cause they are not god. So i think you have misunderstood.

To god all things are alive. To us they are not. All death is not the same, because to us they are gone, to god they are not. You dont have the right to kill someone...therefore remove their spirits out of their bodies. God can do with a spirit whatever HE wants. HE made it..you didnt.

Heneni

To God they are not dead is true.
They are alive in hell for god's revenge and entertainment. Sort of like him on his throne in the arena watching lions eat Christians. Pass the hot dog.

Regards
DL