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God Sent Himself To Die On The Cross

Jimmy

Jimmy

King Phenomenon
The Hammer said:
Sure and my patron deity Odin died for humanity by his own hand as well :).

"In Norse mythology, Odin, the one-eyed All-Father, hung himself from Yggdrasil, the world tree, for nine days and nine nights to gain knowledge of other worlds and the runes:

Odin chose a branch of Yggdrasil

He pierced himself with his spear, Gungnir

He forbade the other gods from helping him, including giving him water

He looked down into the Well of Urd

He called out to the runes, which are said to live in the Well with the norns

He survived on the brink of life and death for nine days and nights

On the ninth night, the runes appeared to him, and he "took up the runes, screaming I took them, then I fell back from
there"

"for who could be a nobler offering to the god than the god himself?"

norse-mythology.org

Odin's Discovery of the Runes - Norse Mythology for Smart People

The Norse god Odin is a relentless seeker after knowledge and wisdom, and is willing to sacrifice almost anything for this pursuit. The most outstanding feature of his appearance, his one eye, attests to this; he sacrificed his other eye for more wisdom. The tale of how he discovered the runes...
norse-mythology.org norse-mythology.org
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Nice
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
cataway said:

Colossians 1:14​

by means of whom we have our release by ransom, the forgiveness of our sins.

Matthew 20:28​

Just as the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his life as a ransom in exchange for many.”
Click to expand...
I know that the Bible says that Jesus died as a ransom for our sins and I believe that since it is a Baha'i belief, but where in the Bible does it say that Jesus died as a ransom for an original sin of Adam and Eve? That was my question.
 
cataway

cataway

Well-Known Member
Trailblazer said:
I know that the Bible says that Jesus died as a ransom for our sins and I believe that since it is a Baha'i belief, but where in the Bible does it say that Jesus died as a ransom for an original sin of Adam and Eve? That was my question.
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jury may still be out on Adam and Eve being forgiven . they did set in motion the need of the redeemer
 
blü 2

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
F1fan said:
Right, Christianity and the Jesus myth is absurd, and if interpreted literally says something very bad about the God, namely that it's either incompetent, or a sociopath. And let's be clear, the Fall and the resulting sin was all what God created and allowed to happen, so it's all on God.
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There is no Fall of Man in the Garden story, or anywhere else in the Tanakh. Instead there's eg Ezekiel 18, not least in verse 20. Nothing about 'death entering the world' or 'Adam's sin'. It takes a single reading of Genesis 2 & 3 to check this out ─ and to discover that the reason God kicked them out of the Garden was, out loud and proud, to protect [his] own position ─ Genesis 3:22-23.

I recall reading somewhere that the Fall notion originated among the Jews of Alexandria late in the second century BCE, as part of the midrash tradition (where you take a verse or passage from the Tanakh and play with it to make it mean something completely different). Paul is the only NT writer to mention the Fall (very briefly, twice). Nor was it part of Christianity till Augustine of Hippo picked it up and ran with it, no doubt on the basis that it was good for sales.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
cataway said:
it bothers you that the first woman had a name ?
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No, that's not it. I do not believe that Eve was the first woman.
I don't believe that Adam was the first man either. I believe he was the first prophet in the Adamic Cycle of religion. I thought we discussed this on the other thread.
 
cataway

cataway

Well-Known Member
you can call them Dick an Jane if you want. we are however told their names and anyone who has ever hear of them knows who it is we are talking about .
as for Adam being a prophet of any sort is a stretch of the imagination. by learning of Adam we then begin to learn of why he failed and the reason for the need of Jesus, the Christ . if a person is not going to accept him and his kingdom the they may as well bend over an kiss their butt goodby .
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
cataway said:
you can call them Dick an Jane if you want. we are however told their names and anyone who has ever hear of them knows who it is we are talking about .
as for Adam being a prophet of any sort is a stretch of the imagination. by learning of Adam we then begin to learn of why he failed and the reason for the need of Jesus, the Christ . if a person is not going to accept him and his kingdom the they may as well bend over an kiss their butt goodby .
Click to expand...
As for Adam being a man who lived in a garden with Eve, that is a myth, not a true story. People are increasingly recognizing that as people mature spiritually.

"A number of Christian sects teach that Adam and Eve were made perfect but fell from grace and that mankind is deteriorating from that nascent perfection. They believe that history will end in a day of judgment in which God will destroy the sinners and take the believers into heaven.
This is not a universal doctrine, for many religious people — certainly Baha’is — understand that humanity is not deteriorating from a perfect prior creation but is evolving from the dominion of our animal condition toward being truly human. We are moving from a material understanding of the world to a spiritual one. We accomplish this through a sometimes painful process of acquiring self-knowledge and human virtues. Some of us are eager to do this; others wholeheartedly resist.

So, when we look back from any distance in human history, it’s helpful to remember a couple of things:

When the books of the Tanakh (Old Testament) were in the process of being written, humans were at an earlier stage of evolution intellectually, spiritually and socially.

The abyss from which the teachings they were given were intended to raise them was so far below what we’d consider civilized today that it can seem unimaginable or even completely alien to our experience."
bahaiteachings.org

How Do You Know a Prophet? By Their Fruits …

Examine the contrast between professed beliefs and practiced principles, and how they shape our understanding of faith.
bahaiteachings.org bahaiteachings.org

I never said that we should not accept Jesus, but there will be no kingdom of God brought by Jesus. That is not in the Bible. It is a fabricated doctrine of Christianity. Jesus said that His kingdom was not of this world and Jesus NEVER said that He would rule from heaven. It is a fabricated doctrine of the JW church.
 
cataway

cataway

Well-Known Member
Trailblazer said:
As for Adam being a man who lived in a garden with Eve, that is a myth, not a true story. People are increasingly recognizing that as people mature spiritually.

"A number of Christian sects teach that Adam and Eve were made perfect but fell from grace and that mankind is deteriorating from that nascent perfection. They believe that history will end in a day of judgment in which God will destroy the sinners and take the believers into heaven.
This is not a universal doctrine, for many religious people — certainly Baha’is — understand that humanity is not deteriorating from a perfect prior creation but is evolving from the dominion of our animal condition toward being truly human. We are moving from a material understanding of the world to a spiritual one. We accomplish this through a sometimes painful process of acquiring self-knowledge and human virtues. Some of us are eager to do this; others wholeheartedly resist.

So, when we look back from any distance in human history, it’s helpful to remember a couple of things:

When the books of the Tanakh (Old Testament) were in the process of being written, humans were at an earlier stage of evolution intellectually, spiritually and socially.

The abyss from which the teachings they were given were intended to raise them was so far below what we’d consider civilized today that it can seem unimaginable or even completely alien to our experience."
bahaiteachings.org

How Do You Know a Prophet? By Their Fruits …

Examine the contrast between professed beliefs and practiced principles, and how they shape our understanding of faith.
bahaiteachings.org bahaiteachings.org

I never said that we should not accept Jesus, but there will be no kingdom of God brought by Jesus. That is not in the Bible. It is a fabricated doctrine of Christianity. Jesus said that His kingdom was not of this world and Jesus NEVER said that He would rule from heaven. It is a fabricated doctrine of the JW church.
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you dont much about the JW's . if it were not in the bible they would not be saying it is
 
cataway

cataway

Well-Known Member
Trailblazer said:
The story of Adam and Eve and the garden of Eden is in the Bible but is an allegorical story, not a true story.
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'' but there will be no kingdom of God brought by Jesus. That is not in the Bible.''

fact is if it were not in the bible they would not be saying it is!
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
cataway said:
'' but there will be no kingdom of God brought by Jesus. That is not in the Bible.''

fact is if it were not in the bible they would not be saying it is!
Click to expand...
Talk is cheap. Show me where 'there will be a kingdom of God brought by Jesus' is in the Bible.
 
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Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
cataway said:
fact is if it were not in the bible the jw's would not be saying it is!
Click to expand...
I made a typo so I just had to correct my post..... I intended to say:
Show me where 'there will be a kingdom of God brought by Jesus' is in the Bible.

You are now deflecting instead of showing me where that is in the Bible.
Show me where 'there will be a kingdom of God brought by Jesus' is in the Bible.

The JWs say a lot of things. They are based upon Bible verses but the interpretations of the verses are incorrect, so what they believe is not based upon a correct interpretation of the Bible.
Anyone can use the Bible to believe whatever they want to believe by trying to make verses mean what they do not mean.
 
cataway

cataway

Well-Known Member
we could start with

Daniel 2:44​

“In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever,"
a kingdom is a form of government .a government that Jesus often would speak of .

Matthew 6:10​

Let your Kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also on earth." he was showing to his apostles how to pray .if not real why would he even mention it ?? it will happen even as Daniel 2:44 promised it will happen.
 
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