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God/Yahweh/Allah I BELIEVE started as volcanic activity

Breathe

Hostis humani generis
Ok Odion, I've not asked you this before. Where does god reside? Is he omnipresent or does he reside in a specific place? If the latter, what do you think his home sounds like?
This is incredibly off-topic as I do not subscribe to the Abrahamic religions.

In other words: I'm not Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Mormon, Bábi, Bahá'í, or Rastafarian, and showing me anything from the Tanakh (Old Testament), New Testament, Quran, Book of Mormon, Kitáb-i-Aqdás holds absolutely no spiritual or religious meaning to me.

Even if I think some parts are nice, they hold no weight for my own beliefs -- I do not believe in the God concepts that such religious literature considers as God, especially from a literalistic reading of it. I hold absolutely no spiritual weight to the stories enshrined in Semitic folklore, religious texts or myths, so I don't believe in Noah, Moses, in the slavery of the Hebrews and their freedom and exodus from Egypt, and so on, and so forth.

If you're wondering why I'm disagreeing with you, then, it's simply because you're looking at things too simply (everything seems to point to a volcano and all), and ignoring the vast number of idioms that go within languages, and faces beaming and so on do not indicate volcano worship. It's a cute idea, but not one others are finding convincing.

In addition, you are using the Bible to prove this is what the people did and believed. As has been explained to you a few times, the book of Exodus was not written for a long time after these supposed events took place - and it allows a long time for literature to be changed, lost, added, expanded upon and so on. We do not know if Moses even existed, and even if we suppose he did exist, we have no evidence that he even went up a mountain to meet his divinity; it could have been something added in later, if such a man even existed in the first place.

Ironically, the people who've been disagreeing with you most in this thread have been non-Abrahamics, including atheists.

In answer to your question, though, I'm a panentheist. I personally believe everything is part of the Divine Source (who has no body, gender, or physical appearance): no special mountains, no holy lakes, no holy days, no special times, no holy temples, no special relics, no sin, no Hell, no Deity who's ever hateful, angry, or to be feared. I acknowledge religious scripture as fingers pointing to the moon, but not the moon itself, and I am more interested in people living a good life and well than following my own doctrinal beliefs.

Does that make things a little clearer?
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Well you have just exposed yourself as the anti-thesis of a truth seeker. Very few of those quotes were about anything of power or might. Almost all were about where god was sited.

Then why is hills plural? Volcanoes don't melt hills. The first one starts with literally stating that the Lord reigns supreme over the world, and then goes on to describe his power over the world. It's not speaking of location at all:

Psalms 97:1-5: "The LORD reigneth; let the earth rejoice; let the multitude of isles be glad thereof. 2 Clouds and darkness are round about him: righteousness and judgment are the habitation of his throne. 3A fire goeth before him, and burneth up his enemies round about. 4 His lightnings enlightened the world: the earth saw, and trembled. 5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the LORD, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth." (KJV)

The second one is prophecy:

Micah 1:4: "And the mountains shall be melted under him, and the valleys shall be cleft, as wax before the fire, as waters that are poured down a steep place." (KJV)


Plus, you ignore the preceeding verse:

3. For behold, the Lord comes forth from His place, and He shall descend and tread upon the high places of the earth.

Therefore, the Lord is described as coming from above the high mountains, thus resides higher than any local volcano.

Once more, I have to wonder at you're continued aggressive stance, completely missing the point and claiming to know what we are simply because we don't agree with you. I'm very much a truth-seeker, just as you are. The difference is, I don't latch on to every single eureka moment as if that's absolute truth, while refusing to even acknowledge counter-arguments.

As has been continuously stated, you need more than Scripture to determine where a god comes from.
 
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The Fog Horn

Active Member
This is incredibly off-topic as I do not subscribe to the Abrahamic religions.

In other words: I'm not Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Mormon, Bábi, Bahá'í, or Rastafarian, and showing me anything from the Tanakh (Old Testament), New Testament, Quran, Book of Mormon, Kitáb-i-Aqdás holds absolutely no spiritual or religious meaning to me.

Even if I think some parts are nice, they hold no weight for my own beliefs -- I do not believe in the God concepts that such religious literature considers as God, especially from a literalistic reading of it. I hold absolutely no spiritual weight to the stories enshrined in Semitic folklore, religious texts or myths, so I don't believe in Noah, Moses, in the slavery of the Hebrews and their freedom and exodus from Egypt, and so on, and so forth.

If you're wondering why I'm disagreeing with you, then, it's simply because you're looking at things too simply (everything seems to point to a volcano and all), and ignoring the vast number of idioms that go within languages, and faces beaming and so on do not indicate volcano worship. It's a cute idea, but not one others are finding convincing.

In addition, you are using the Bible to prove this is what the people did and believed. As has been explained to you a few times, the book of Exodus was not written for a long time after these supposed events took place - and it allows a long time for literature to be changed, lost, added, expanded upon and so on. We do not know if Moses even existed, and even if we suppose he did exist, we have no evidence that he even went up a mountain to meet his divinity; it could have been something added in later, if such a man even existed in the first place.

Ironically, the people who've been disagreeing with you most in this thread have been non-Abrahamics, including atheists.

In answer to your question, though, I'm a panentheist. I personally believe everything is part of the Divine Source (who has no body, gender, or physical appearance): no special mountains, no holy lakes, no holy days, no special times, no holy temples, no special relics, no sin, no Hell, no Deity who's ever hateful, angry, or to be feared. I acknowledge religious scripture as fingers pointing to the moon, but not the moon itself, and I am more interested in people living a good life and well than following my own doctrinal beliefs.

Does that make things a little clearer?

Errr....I didn't ask you to give me a long winded explanation of your own beliefs or lack of. I asked you to look at the list of verses and tell me where it looked like God lived or what god lived in. Forget everything else. Just look at the verses and nothing else and then say what you see. Is that not possible? I am getting that distinct impression that all three...four..of you are incapable of switching off the personal prejudices, preferences, pre-conceived ideas, which is of course vital if one is to see and believe new and challenging information or ideas in a completely fresh way. Can you not do that? Look at just the words. You could even remove the verse references if that makes it easier for you. Just read the words and say what comes into your.... mind. Ok? Possible? Yes? No?
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Errr....I didn't ask you to give me a long winded explanation of your own beliefs or lack of. I asked you to look at the list of verses and tell me where it looked like God lived or what god lived in. Forget everything else. Just look at the verses and nothing else and then say what you see. Is that not possible? I am getting that distinct impression that all three...four..of you are incapable of switching off the personal prejudices, preferences, pre-conceived ideas, which is of course vital if one is to see and believe new and challenging information or ideas in a completely fresh way. Can you not do that? Look at just the words. You could even remove the verse references if that makes it easier for you. Just read the words and say what comes into your.... mind. Ok? Possible? Yes? No?

Just because we disagree doesn't mean we can't see where you're getting "volcano." I can see how you could put the various verses together to paint the picture of a volcano-cult.

The thing is, Scripture alone is inadequate.

You seem to be operating under the impression that people didn't know what volcanoes were back then, which I seriously doubt was the case; the ancients weren't any less intelligent than us. While they may have seen God's power in volcanoes, they wouldn't have mistaken God for a volcano.

It is clear from the following verses that YHWH is a Sky God:

Exodus 20
19. The Lord said to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, You have seen that from the heavens I have spoken with you.

Psalms 2
4. He Who dwells in Heaven laughs; the Lord mocks them.

Plus, read Genesis. Could a volcano create the earth? Unlikely But a God who resides in/above the sky could. Sky Gods are often Kings of various pantheons (Indra, Odin, Zeus), or fathers of Kings of pantheons (Uranus, Varuna, Dyauspita).
 

gnosticx

Member
the whole volcanic activity thing was what was filtered down to the masses as the then rudimentary theory of evolution... remember ive said before that the elites pushing of the big bang theory revolves around an act of sex (the big bang) super imposed as an act of love (the whole theory of evolution discusses what apparently happened next)....the worlds elitist bloodlines are in part a continuation of these egyptian/saudi ones so yeah i can see where the theory would appear to have some weght....
 

The Fog Horn

Active Member
Then why is hills plural? Volcanoes don't melt hills. The first one starts with literally stating that the Lord reigns supreme over the world, and then goes on to describe his power over the world. It's not speaking of location at all:

Psalms 97:1-5: "The LORD reigneth; let the earth rejoice; let the multitude of isles be glad thereof. 2 Clouds and darkness are round about him: righteousness and judgment are the habitation of his throne. 3A fire goeth before him, and burneth up his enemies round about. 4 His lightnings enlightened the world: the earth saw, and trembled. 5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the LORD, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth." (KJV)

The second one is prophecy:

Micah 1:4: "And the mountains shall be melted under him, and the valleys shall be cleft, as wax before the fire, as waters that are poured down a steep place." (KJV)


Plus, you ignore the preceeding verse:

3. For behold, the Lord comes forth from His place, and He shall descend and tread upon the high places of the earth.

Therefore, the Lord is described as coming from above the high mountains, thus resides higher than any local volcano.

2 Hear, you peoples, all of you,
listen, earth and all who live in it,
that the Sovereign LORD may bear witness against you,
the Lord from his holy temple.

Judgment Against Samaria and Jerusalem

3 Look! The LORD is coming from his dwelling place;
he comes down and treads on the heights of the earth.
4 The mountains melt beneath him
and the valleys split apart,
like wax before the fire,
like water rushing down a slope.



Volcanic activity. 'fire like water rushing down a slope'. What else do you think that could possibly be? Have you not noticed the massive emphasis on fire, brimstone, trumpet blasts, thunder, lightning, darkness....? Micah was from a much later era so the concept of god living in the sky and not being the actual volcano or magma is to be expected. As you go through the Bible, god becomes less connected to the volcanoes. In Exodus, he lives IN the volcanoes! In the NT, he's everywhere!

 

outhouse

Atheistically
Errr....I didn't ask you to give me a long winded explanation of your own beliefs or lack of. I asked you to look at the list of verses and tell me where it looked like God lived or what god lived in. Forget everything else. Just look at the verses and nothing else and then say what you see. Is that not possible? I am getting that distinct impression that all three...four..of you are incapable of switching off the personal prejudices, preferences, pre-conceived ideas, which is of course vital if one is to see and believe new and challenging information or ideas in a completely fresh way. Can you not do that? Look at just the words. You could even remove the verse references if that makes it easier for you. Just read the words and say what comes into your.... mind. Ok? Possible? Yes? No?


Problem is, there are more then words to describe a deity. There are collections of words, and your just picking out a fraction of them to base the rest off.


The verses YOU show only show what "one" author at one point in time wrote about. These people wrote mythically in nature in prophecy with metaphors and heavy in allegory and parables. These books like exodus evolved over hundreds of years. As the collections moved from hand to hand these books were edited as the culture changed.

It was never accurate history of the beginnings of ancient hebrews OR their deity.



why do you ignore the words in the bible???? it states 380 times yahweh is a warrior deity. Why do you ignore that??

why do you ignore they do not EVER state yahweh is a volcanic deity??
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Volcanic activity. 'fire like water rushing down a slope'. What else do you think that could possibly be?


That's how fast the earth will crumble into the abyss. Read the verse more closely: it says that the valleys will split apart like wax before the fire AND like water rushing down a slope.

Have you not noticed the massive emphasis on fire, brimstone, trumpet blasts, thunder, lightning, darkness....? Micah was from a much later era so the concept of god living in the sky and not being the actual volcano or magma is to be expected. As you go through the Bible, god becomes less connected to the volcanoes. In Exodus, he lives IN the volcanoes! In the NT, he's everywhere!
No, he's in the sky, as in the verses I provided. The emphasis is put on those words because they're describing things that are loud and powerful. Thunder and lightning exist without volcanoes, and lightning/thunder deities are often kings, and those types of storm are often accompanied by darkness.
 

St Giordano Bruno

Well-Known Member
Fire and brimstone as being defined as a form of divine punishment in the Bible has some very volcanic overtones no doubt, especially in light of the knowledge that brimstone forms around volcanic vents.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Fire and brimstone as being defined as a form of divine punishment in the Bible has some very volcanic overtones no doubt, especially in light of the knowledge that brimstone forms around volcanic vents.

Absoluetely and none of us have denied natures influence in a deities given power.
 

Breathe

Hostis humani generis
Errr....I didn't ask you to give me a long winded explanation of your own beliefs or lack of. I asked you to look at the list of verses and tell me where it looked like God lived or what god lived in.
Actually - you didn't. You asked me whether God was omnipresent or lived somewhere. I explained my views are not relevant and massively different from Abrahamic doctrines.

Forget everything else. Just look at the verses and nothing else and then say what you see. Is that not possible? I am getting that distinct impression that all three...four..of you are incapable of switching off the personal prejudices, preferences, pre-conceived ideas, which is of course vital if one is to see and believe new and challenging information or ideas in a completely fresh way. Can you not do that? Look at just the words. You could even remove the verse references if that makes it easier for you. Just read the words and say what comes into your.... mind. Ok? Possible? Yes? No?
We've done it, several times - we've seen these earlier. They didn't impress us then, they don't impress us now. The reason why I explained my beliefs to you, as well, is to explain that I hold no pre-conceived ideas, prejudices, or preferences to the Abrahamic conceptions of their gods, as I don't believe in them, so I have no reason to claim they're wrong if I can see your view as having merit, which unfortunately for you, it doesn't really have any.

Instead of "just look at the words", you need to go further than that and understand that languages are filled with metaphors. "His face beamed", "by the skin of his teeth", and so on.
 

The Fog Horn

Active Member
The tribe of the Levites, with whom Moses was associated, was another matter altogether. They worshiped a thundering, fierce god, whose location was either Mount Horeb, or Mount Sinai. Very likely the two mountains are one and the same -- there is no proof either way. Was this god the same Yahweh, the God of Abraham? Very possibly. If not, the two entities, Yahweh of Abraham and the warrior god of the Levites were combined into one impressive entity that Moses, very likely a full-blooded Levite himself, had adopted as his own God. That is proven by the fact that later, only the Levites acted as priests toYahweh in the various Temples.

The Israelites had to physically leave Egypt to worship Yahweh. They could not, under any circumstances, worship Him in Egypt, because they could not even see him there. Exodus is very specific as to what they had to see: "They took their journey from Succoth and encamped at Etham, in the edge of the wilderness. The Lord Yahweh went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night (Exodus 13:21)." This is a clear and simple description of an active volcano- - smoke by day, fire by night.

Then, to fully prove this assumption, they gathered around this mountain, and were told that they were never to climb or touch it, on danger of death. "Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, or touch the border of it: whosoever touchesth the mount shall be surely put to death (Exodus 19:12)." The mountain must have been dangerously hot to the touch. The passage continues: "And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the Lord Yahweh descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly." Another clear description of an active volcano. And at this emotionally impressive location Moses gave the Israelites a Code of Law, and reforged a covenant which was to become the basis for the development of monotheism.

Time passed. Judges, kings and prophets presided over the Israelites. Yahweh continued side by side with the other gods. The first attempt to create pure monotheism, one God without an image, was conceived by the prophet Isaiah. Philosophically inclined, Isaiah was extremely advanced in his views about monotheism, well ahead of his time. His vision could not tolerate other gods next to the one, universal God.

Two other prophets continued to develop the concept. Habakkuk claimed that Yahweh was a righteous, loving God, not the fierce volcano God of fire and war, and the God of all men. There was no war between Yahweh and other gods, because no other gods could exist.

What happened in the seventy years of the Babylonian diaspora shaped the change in Yahweh. Until then, the Israelites, like all other nations, believed that each god had a locality. A god belonged to a country, a city, a mountain, a river. He or she dwelled in a temple built in this special location. Any captive, merchant, immigrant, or traveling physician worshiped in the town or village where he now lived, because his former gods were simply out of touch.

The Israelites, who were treated quite well in Babylon, were invited to worship any Babylonian god they wished, as was the custom. But the Israelites could not do that. Perhaps if the peasants, and other simple people were driven to Babylon they would have willingly changed -- but not the Levites. They simply could not give up their connection to the God they so loved, were so connected to, identified themselves with. It was unthinkable.

Instead, an equally unthinkable, unprecedented religious revolution took place. The Jews transformed God. They made him omnipresent, liberated Him from His location, and made him a universal God. They no longer really needed a temple, though eventually a new temple would be built, as a national symbol. Instead, they built synagogues, where people could congregate and pray together to a God that was omniscient, omnipresent, had no location, no shape or form, and no rivals. As a result, the Jews had to accept the fact that He must be the God of every other person on Earth. The Jews were still God's chosen people -- but only chosen to spread His word and suffer for the sake of the rest of the nations so that the world can be redeemed, an honor and a burden given to them by God. With such immense presence, He also had to mature psychologically. Obviously, he was no longer a warrior God, a fierce volcano God, fighting for his chosen people. The vision of Isaiah, Habakkuk and Jeremiah took the final stride toward a merciful, righteous God, whose love permeated the entire universe.

In Babylon, the Jews put together all their lore and laws and codes into a book -- The Torah, knitting together all the preexisting narratives. An incredibly significant point of that book is that the word Elohim, which once meant the "other gods" became one of Yahweh's many titles. In other words, any other divinity was nothing but an aspect of this unseen presence of Yahweh. The transformation was complete.

Yahweh

I've quoted the relevant parts but read it all if needed. I think this pretty much sums it up rather nicely. Don't you?
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Yahweh

This article is not intended as a religious discussion. It relates only to the mythological and historical aspects of the use and development of the name of God. No attempt will be made to discuss the values and strengths of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, the three great religions that hold God as their core. Such an attempt will be well above the scope of one article; the interested reader is encouraged to pursue the wealth of material available to everyone.
 

The Fog Horn

Active Member
Yahweh

This article is not intended as a religious discussion. It relates only to the mythological and historical aspects of the use and development of the name of God. No attempt will be made to discuss the values and strengths of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, the three great religions that hold God as their core. Such an attempt will be well above the scope of one article; the interested reader is encouraged to pursue the wealth of material available to everyone.

And you clearly have ulterior motives preventing you from seeing the blatantly obvious. 'Values and strengths' are entirely seperate to 'validity'.
 
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