God/Yahweh/Allah I BELIEVE started as volcanic activity

[outhouse]

exodus is a very small part of biblical passages.

It was not the start of the hebrew deities, the OT was started hundreds of years before the exodus story/legend was added.

 

[Riverwolf]

Shone = sweating

How do you figure that? Last I checked, sweating and shining weren't synonymous at all.

Plus, first you say it was a burn, now you say it was sweat? Make up your mind.

 

[The Fog Horn]

How do you figure that? Last I checked, sweating and shining weren't synonymous at all.

Plus, first you say it was a burn, now you say it was sweat? Make up your mind.

Ok, I confess, I changed my mind about the meaning as I realised shone indicates shining, which would mean sweating. However, I'm still not sure as some translations say 'radiant' and some say 'glowing' but most do say 'shone' or 'shining', which would suggest sweating, especially considering those revealing two words before....devouring fire. Maybe the real translation would be something meaning both radiating and shining, which would be even better wouldn't it? Flushed and sweaty.

Aren't you splitting hairs with this one?

 

[Riverwolf]

Ok, I confess, I changed my mind about the meaning as I realised shone indicates shining, which would mean sweating. However, I'm still not sure as some translations say 'radiant' and some say 'glowing' but most do say 'shone' or 'shining', which would suggest sweating, especially considering those revealing two words before....devouring fire. Maybe the real translation would be something meaning both radiating and shining, which would be even better wouldn't it? Flushed and sweaty.

Aren't you splitting hairs with this one?

Hardly.

When we say someone's face is "beaming" (a word that is synonymous with "shining"), we don't mean they're sweaty; we mean they appear ecstatic.

Like I keep saying, holy men are often described as radiant, especially by their followers.

Therefore, these two are far more likely than "sweaty", which wouldn't cause a shine; it'd cause a slight sparkle at most.

 

[The Fog Horn]

Hardly.

When we say someone's face is "beaming" (a word that is synonymous with "shining"), we don't mean they're sweaty; we mean they appear ecstatic.

Like I keep saying, holy men are often described as radiant, especially by their followers.

Therefore, these two are far more likely than "sweaty", which wouldn't cause a shine; it'd cause a slight sparkle at most.

Who mentioned 'beaming'? No-one mentioned beaming. I said 'shone', which is very different to beaming. Beaming would mean smiling broadly or exuding lots of happiness. The word in question refers to a physical characteristic and not an emotive one. How come you completely overlook the 'devouring fire'? I feel as though I can put a photo in front of your face but you refuse to see it.

http://bible.cc/2_corinthians/3-13.htm

2 Corinthians 3:13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away.

Fading away. Radiance....radiating...radiating heat? Glowing red? Blushing, hot and sweaty? Due to the devouring fire? Why would he hide with a veil a happy face? If his face was showing emotions of happiness or excitement, why would he hide it? He hid his face because it revealed the fact he'd been standing next to something very hot and he obviously didn't want people to know that. This seemingly insignificant piece of this famous story is incredibly revealing. It reveals the fact Moses was concealing facts from the Israelites. Little bits of strange information like this prove, in my mind, that this event did actually take place and that there was a man who made it to the top of the mountain hoping to gain divine revelation but who did, in the end, decide to make it all up himself.

 

[The Fog Horn]

Q: In Ex 10:21-33, is there any archaeological evidence for darkness over Egypt?
A: Maybe. The Biblical Archaeology Review January / February 1991 p.50 says
"An Egyptian text dated after the end of the XVIIIth Dynasty (c1350 B.C.) describes a calamity as follows:

‘The sun is covered and does not shine to the sight of men. Life is no longer possible when the sun is concealed behind the clouds. Ra [the god] has turned his face from mankind. If only it would shine even for one hour! No one knows when it is midday. One’s shadow is not discernible. The sun in the heavens resembles the moon….’"

This could refer to the darkness over the land, or it could refer to the eruption of the volcano on the Island of Thera.

Q: In Ex 11:5-12:30, apart from the Bible, is there any evidence of any plagues occurring in Egypt during this time?

A: Perhaps so. David M. Rohl in Pharaoh’s and Kings : A Biblical Quest (1995) p.278-278, mentions that there was evidence of a great disaster with a great number of hastily buried bodies. As Rohl accurately points out though, the large numbers of deaths does not prove or disprove that this was due to a sudden event overnight. In addition, Josephus quotes Manetho about that "a blast of God smote us." However, this is in the context of invaders from the east invading Egypt, so it could be an unrelated event, or there could have been invaders of Egypt during Moses’ time that Exodus was silent about.
​

Bible Query on Old Testament Archaeology​

 

[Riverwolf]

Who mentioned 'beaming'? No-one mentioned beaming. I said 'shone', which is very different to beaming. Beaming would mean smiling broadly or exuding lots of happiness.

But the word comes from "beam", as in a beam of light.

The word in question refers to a physical characteristic and not an emotive one.

So does "beaming". It's use in describing a happy face is metaphorical.

How come you completely overlook the 'devouring fire'?

Fire devours whether or not it's from a volcano, and non-volcanic mountains catch fire all the time.

I feel as though I can put a photo in front of your face but you refuse to see it.

I assure you, the feeling is mutual. ^_^

 

[Riverwolf]

Fading away. Radiance....radiating...radiating heat? Glowing red? Blushing, hot and sweaty? Due to the devouring fire? Why would he hide with a veil a happy face? If his face was showing emotions of happiness or excitement, why would he hide it? He hid his face because it revealed the fact he'd been standing next to something very hot and he obviously didn't want people to know that. This seemingly insignificant piece of this famous story is incredibly revealing. It reveals the fact Moses was concealing facts from the Israelites. Little bits of strange information like this prove, in my mind, that this event did actually take place and that there was a man who made it to the top of the mountain hoping to gain divine revelation but who did, in the end, decide to make it all up himself.

That's a text written 1500 years after the event; it's not going to necessarily be accurate to the original story.

In case you aren't aware, the Greeks believed that the native forms of their gods cannot be seen by mortals. There's a story of one of Zeus's wives begging the god to reveal his true form, and doing so, she died.

 

[outhouse]

Bible Query on Old Testament Archaeology​

The information in that link is worthless


It is not backed by any scholarships or historians at all.

 

[outhouse]

This could refer to the darkness over the land, or it could refer to the eruption of the volcano on the Island of Thera.

OR a eclipse

OR its mythology with no real historical foundation.

OR it could,,,doesnt cut it and is only as good as a guess.

 

[The Fog Horn]

Moses said to the LORD, "The people cannot come up Mount Sinai, because you yourself warned us, 'Put limits around the mountain and set it apart as holy.'" Exodus 19:23

Little bit of evidence of the worship of the volcano where god resided.

 

[The Fog Horn]

But the word comes from "beam", as in a beam of light.

So does "beaming". It's use in describing a happy face is metaphorical.

Fire devours whether or not it's from a volcano, and non-volcanic mountains catch fire all the time.



I assure you, the feeling is mutual. ^_^

In no translation is the word beam used to why are you using it? Shone does not mean beam. The sentence....'I shone a beam of light' makes that pretty evident.

Does fire on its own also shoot out firey darts, produced tumbling ash clouds, produce lightening and hail storms, produce thunder and trembling, create a pillar of smoke by day and a pillar of fire by night, produce red lines of fire down the mountain side, cause the days to become night, give off sulphar and brimstone, turn people to stone.......?

 

[outhouse]

Little bit of evidence of the worship of the volcano where god resided.

except it is a legend with no historicity.


It never happened, according to most scholars and historians

 

[The Fog Horn]

except it is a legend with no historicity.


It never happened, according to most scholars and historians

If all else fails, pull out the 'it never happened' card.

 

[outhouse]

If all else fails, pull out the 'it never happened' card.

Well i can back my statement. You have no cards.

Moses - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The tradition of Moses as a lawgiver and culture hero of the Israelites can be traced to 8th or 7th century BCE in the kingdom of Judah.


this states we know when moses was created.



Many biblical scholars are prepared to admit that there may be a historical core beneath the Exodus and Sinai traditions, even if the biblical narrative dramatizes by portraying as a single event what was more likely a gradual process of migration and conquest.


This states your barking up the wrong tree, wallowing in a lack of education on the subject you fail at presenting.




the figure of Moses as a leader of the Israelites in these events cannot be substantiated.


Epic fail on your part for using known mythology and forcing a literal interpretation AFTER you have been told many times your making a mistake.

 

[The Fog Horn]

Well i can back my statement. You have no cards.

Moses - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The tradition of Moses as a lawgiver and culture hero of the Israelites can be traced to 8th or 7th century BCE in the kingdom of Judah.


this states we know when moses was created.



Many biblical scholars are prepared to admit that there may be a historical core beneath the Exodus and Sinai traditions, even if the biblical narrative dramatizes by portraying as a single event what was more likely a gradual process of migration and conquest.


This states your barking up the wrong tree, wallowing in a lack of education on the subject you fail at presenting.




the figure of Moses as a leader of the Israelites in these events cannot be substantiated.


Epic fail on your part for using known mythology and forcing a literal interpretation AFTER you have been told many times your making a mistake. [/quote

Do you get a thrill when you say 'epic fail'?

possibility of some immigrants from Egypt among the early hilltop settlers, leaving open the possibility of a Moses-like figure in Transjordan ca 1250-1200.[88]
Martin Noth holds that two different groups experienced the Exodus and Sinai events, and each group transmitted its own stories independently of the other one, writing that "The biblical story tracing the Hebrews from Egypt to Canaan resulted from an editor's weaving separate themes and traditions around a main character Moses, actually an obscure person from Moab."[89]
William Albright held a more favorable view towards the traditional views regarding Moses, and accept the essence of the biblical story, as narrated between Exodus 1:8 and Deuteronomy 34:12, but recognize the impact that centuries of oral and written transmission have had on the account, causing it to acquire layers of accretions.[89]

From wiki as you seem to like it.

It seems there is no absolute conclusion. You cannot prove there was no Moses figure who made his way to the top of a volcano and got a red hot and sweaty face after the Exodus. Nothing is proven as yet so stop saying 'epic fail' because it just makes you look full of yourself.

 

[outhouse]

from your copy

causing it to acquire layers of accretions.

actually an obscure person from Moab

editor's weaving separate themes and traditions

recognize the impact that centuries of oral and written transmission

Now with what your were babbling about

You cannot prove there was no Moses figure who made his way to the top of a volcano

and you cannot prove he was


there is more to the bible anmd yahweh then exodus


NOW this isnt up for debate.

The tradition of Moses as a lawgiver and culture hero of the Israelites can be traced to 8th or 7th century BCE in the kingdom of Judah.

This is not up for debate by anyone

a single event what was more likely a gradual process of migration and conquest.

Ths is not up for debate by onyone

the figure of Moses as a leader of the Israelites in these events cannot be substantiated.

Funny how you latched onto personal opinions of a few scholars as apposed to the general thought.

Well thats a start in the right direction

 

[outhouse]

In your shoes i'd take a different approach and ask yourself

what would it take to really prove yahweh is a volcanic deity???


First you would be dealing with yahwehs origins, not 700-800 years after his creation.

Next you would see hebrews worshipping the mountain, not the deity.

Next you would expect them to call the mountain yahweh directly.

Next ALL refferences to yahweh would be about the power of the mountain.

Next you would have sacrifices ONLY to the mountain god.


We really dont see any of this. Ever wonder why??? because yehweh was a powerfull warrior deity.

Not a volcanic god who will burn all enimies close enough to get singed LOL






Look its a fact he was a warrior deity that ancient hebrews worshipped to save them in battles of war and conquest. There is ZERO indication he originated from a volcanic source who later became a warrior deity.

 

[The Fog Horn]

Next you would see hebrews worshipping the mountain, not the deity.

Next you would expect them to call the mountain yahweh directly.

Next ALL refferences to yahweh would be about the power of the mountain.

Next you would have sacrifices ONLY to the mountain god.


We really dont see any of this. Ever wonder why??? because yehweh was a powerfull warrior deity.

Not a volcanic god who will burn all enimies close enough to get singed LOL

You've just proved you've not read Exodus!!!

 

[outhouse]

wrongly percieved on your part