God/Yahweh/Allah I BELIEVE started as volcanic activity

[The Fog Horn]

Your also tending to force a literal interpretation of all text instead of understanding much of the early books were collections of allegory, poems, songs and metaphors and parables

If I am trying to persuade people to believe that this....

Isaiah 66:15 See, the LORD is coming with fire, and his chariots are like a whirlwind; he will bring down his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Is a metaphor for a volcano and its tumbling and racing chariots (ash clouds) then what the hell are you talking about? All metaphors have literal interpretations. You can't have a metaphor for a metaphor!

They had spirits and deities for volcanos and they made it very clear.

What on earth are you talking about?

Dont under estimate their intlelligence, they knew exactly what a volcano was.

Prove it. Show me the Biblical verses that prove they knew a volcano was just a volcano and nothing more.

 

[outhouse]

Is a metaphor for a volcano and its tumbling and racing chariots (ash clouds) then what the hell are you talking about? All metaphors have literal interpretations. You can't have a metaphor for a metaphor!

the same exact thing can be said for a meteor LOL you have nothing there but a vague description.

What on earth are you talking about?

have trouble reading? I already posted this information in this thread

Prove it. Show me the Biblical verses that prove they knew a volcano was just a volcano and nothing more.

YOU need to worry about proving your guess is anything more then that. So far you have failed miserably.

Do you think they thought a volcano was a trout? a river? OMG they thought it was the devil!~!!!! LOL

 

[The Fog Horn]

Exodus 19:16 On the morning of the third day there was thunder and lightning, with a thick cloud over the mountain, and a very loud trumpet blast. Everyone in the camp trembled.

Is that a meteor as well? If not, what is it describing? Please tell everyone reading this what you believe this is describing. If you can't put your finger on it, I'll post the subsequent verses.

have trouble reading? I already posted this information in this thread

Yes, I must have trouble reading just as you do as I've repeated myself for you many many times. Please post these volcano deities you said the Hebrews had.

So you cannot show me any verses that prove the Hebrews knew what a volcano was? But you made that claim. You have to prove it otherwise please stop saying they knew what a volcano was. How about posting volcano describing verses so we can see whether or not they believed they were just volcanoes or divine.

 

[The Fog Horn]

<H4>Exodus 19

1In the third month, when the children of Israel were gone forth out of the land of Egypt, the same day came they into the wilderness of Sinai.
2For they were departed from Rephidim, and were come to the desert of Sinai, and had pitched in the wilderness; and there Israel camped before the mount.
3And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;
4Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
5Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
6And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
7And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.
8And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.
9And the LORD said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever. And Moses told the words of the people unto the LORD.
10And the LORD said unto Moses, Go unto the people, and sanctify them to day and to morrow, and let them wash their clothes,
11And be ready against the third day: for the third day the LORD will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai.
12And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round about, saying, Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, or touch the border of it: whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death:
13There shall not an hand touch it, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live: when the trumpet soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount.
14And Moses went down from the mount unto the people, and sanctified the people; and they washed their clothes.
15And he said unto the people, Be ready against the third day: come not at your wives.
16And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled.
17And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount.
18And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.
19And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice.
20And the LORD came down upon mount Sinai, on the top of the mount: and the LORD called Moses up to the top of the mount; and Moses went up.
21And the LORD said unto Moses, Go down, charge the people, lest they break through unto the LORD to gaze, and many of them perish.
22And let the priests also, which come near to the LORD, sanctify themselves, lest the LORD break forth upon them.
23And Moses said unto the LORD, The people cannot come up to mount Sinai: for thou chargedst us, saying, Set bounds about the mount, and sanctify it.
24And the LORD said unto him, Away, get thee down, and thou shalt come up, thou, and Aaron with thee: but let not the priests and the people break through to come up unto the LORD, lest he break forth upon them. 25So Moses went down unto the people, and spake unto them.

</H4>My goodness, what a hysterical Monty Python style movie this will make someday!!!

 

[outhouse]

None of which proves Yahweh was ever a volcanic deity

 

[outhouse]

volcanic

Kabiri (Ph&#339;n.) or the Kabirim. Deities and very mysterious gods with the ancient nations, including the Israelites, some of whom - as Terah, Abram&#8217;s father - worshipped them under the name of Teraphim. With the Christians, however, they are now devils, although the modern Archangels are the direct transformation of these same Kabiri. In Hebrew the latter name means "the mighty ones", Gibborim. At one time all the deities connected with fire - whether they were divine, infernal or volcanic - were called Kabirian.

 

[The Fog Horn]

<H4>Exodus 20

1And God spake all these words, saying,
2I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

(ten commandments)

18And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.
19And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.
20And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.
21And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was.
22And the LORD said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven.
Exodus 24

2And Moses alone shall come near the LORD: but they shall not come nigh; neither shall the people go up with him.


15And Moses went up into the mount, and a cloud covered the mount.
16And the glory of the LORD abode upon mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud.
17And the sight of the glory of the LORD was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel. 18And Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and gat him up into the mount: and Moses was in the mount forty days and forty nights.


Exodus 32

10Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them

11And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand?

22And Aaron said, Let not the anger of my lord wax hot:

Exodus 33

3 lest I consume thee in the way.

Exodus 34

2And be ready in the morning, and come up in the morning unto mount Sinai, and present thyself there to me in the top of the mount.

29And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him. 30And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him.


32And afterward all the children of Israel came nigh: and he gave them in commandment all that the LORD had spoken with him in mount Sinai.
33And till Moses had done speaking with them, he put a vail on his face.
34But when Moses went in before the LORD to speak with him, he took the vail off, until he came out. And he came out, and spake unto the children of Israel that which he was commanded. 35And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone: and Moses put the vail upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him.

I wonder what made Moses's face shine so bright. Hmmmmm.....what could it have been? Was it a sauna up there? An artificial sunbed perhaps. A very powerful torch? A meteor landed. Yes! That's what it was! A meteor!

</H4>

 

[outhouse]

The Timeless Kabiri


The Kabiri or the Kabirim [the name is Phoenician] were Deities and very mysterious gods with the ancient nations, including the Israelites, and were held in the highest veneration at Thebes, in Lemnos, Phrygia, Macedonia, and especially at Samothrace. They were mystery gods, no profane having the right to name or speak of them. Herodotus makes of them Fire-gods and points to Vulcan as their father. The Kabiri presided over the Mysteries, and their real number has never been revealed, their occult meaning being very sacred.

 

[outhouse]

I wonder what made Moses's face shine so bright. Hmmmmm.....what could it have been? Was it a sauna up there? An artificial sunbed perhaps. A very powerful torch? A meteor landed. Yes! That's what it was! A meteor!

</H4>

Moses has no historicity, he never existed according to many historians and scholars a like

 

[Riverwolf]

I wonder what made Moses's face shine so bright. Hmmmmm.....what could it have been?

Again, holy men are often described as being radiant.

Of course, it could be the same figure of speech we use today when we say someone's face is "beaming."

 

[outhouse]

The Timeless Kabiri


The Kabiri or the Kabirim [the name is Phoenician] were Deities and very mysterious gods with the ancient nations, including the Israelites, and were held in the highest veneration at Thebes, in Lemnos, Phrygia, Macedonia, and especially at Samothrace. They were mystery gods, no profane having the right to name or speak of them. Herodotus makes of them Fire-gods and points to Vulcan as their father. The Kabiri presided over the Mysteries, and their real number has never been revealed, their occult meaning being very sacred.

And if Israelites used this deity they also would have used Vulcan as well.

Funny no traits of Kabiri or vulcan ARE even close to Elohim or Yahweh or Asherah or Baal.


Attributing deities to all natural events were common, beyond this you have nothing.

 

[The Fog Horn]

volcanic

Kabiri (Ph&#339;n.) or the Kabirim. Deities and very mysterious gods with the ancient nations, including the Israelites, some of whom - as Terah, Abram&#8217;s father - worshipped them under the name of Teraphim. With the Christians, however, they are now devils, although the modern Archangels are the direct transformation of these same Kabiri. In Hebrew the latter name means "the mighty ones", Gibborim. At one time all the deities connected with fire - whether they were divine, infernal or volcanic - were called Kabirian.

Just adding some more bits from Madame Blavatski's work....

Those who know anything of the Samothracian mysteries will remember that the generic name of the Kabiri was the "Holy Fires," As to the Jewish Noah, no Occultist would ever think of dispossessing him of his prerogatives, if he is claimed to be an Atlantean; for this would simply show that the Israelites repeated the story of Vaivasvata-Manu, Xisuthrus, and so many others, and that they only changed the name, to do which they had the same right as any other nation or tribe.The Kabiri are in truth "the great, beneficent and powerful Gods," "after the distribution of pure Fire a new life began." The fact that, astronomically, the Titans-Kabirim were also the generators and regulators of the seasons, and cosmically the great Volcanic Energies. the sacred Divine [SIZE=-1]FIRES. their cult was always connected with fire; their temples ever built in the most volcanic localities. Therefore Christianity has made of them infernal gods.[/SIZE]

Well there you go. Blavatski might have been knowledgeable but she looked at everything through a supernatural perspective so, despite her acknowledging the fact the Hebrews worshipped volcano gods, she failed to realise that meant there was no Hebrew god but fashioned out some hocus pocus idea that these fire gods had some sort of occult relevance. Nope....just volcanoes.

Don't refer to the delluded in the supernatural for answers on the (super)natural.

Edit....Blavatski is, as far as I can see, the only person who has said the Israelites worshippied these Kabiri deities.

 

[The Fog Horn]

Moses has no historicity, he never existed according to many historians and scholars a like

Right. So this seemingly insignificant element to the story (getting a sweaty face) was added for.....entertainment value? Now to believe that one would need to be daft as a brush.

 

[The Fog Horn]

Again, holy men are often described as being radiant.

Of course, it could be the same figure of speech we use today when we say someone's face is "beaming."

Shone = sweating

So it was nothing to do with the thing mentioned in the story then...the thing where the Lord resided, the thing at the top of the mount where the smoke clouds came out of....the thing that Moses is said to have gone near to talk to god 'face to face'....

the 'devouring fire'.

No? Nothing to do with that?

 

[The Fog Horn]

The thing is that the Hebrew god myth is crucial to a lot of other myths...a lot of occult stuff that Outhouse might well be into. If 'God' is proven a complete and utter error in ancient human judgement, a lot of occult stuff just becomes laughable too.

 

[outhouse]

Funny thing is I dont buy the Kabiri AT ALL

but they make a much better case then you LOL and that is my whole point.





because hebrews attributed all natural events to deities does not specify they belong to one event.





You also do not understand or purposely ignore, yahweh had been around for about 800 years before moses was created.

 

[The Fog Horn]

Funny thing is I dont buy the Kabiri AT ALL

but they make a much better case then you LOL and that is my whole point.





because hebrews attributed all natural events to deities does not specify they belong to one event.





You also do not understand or purposely ignore, yahweh had been around for about 800 years before moses was created.

You are arguing over nothing. What difference does the name of the deity or the time of the books, etc matter? It makes no difference! The whole Bilbe, except for Genesis (which was written after exodus retrospectively), refers back to Exodus. Exodus portrays very clearly (you did read the verses I posted didn't you...just a section of Exodus...can post more if you need me to) the scene.....worshipping a bloody volcano! The events of Exodus shaped the religion. Every word in Exodus is critical. Forget the NT. That is window dressing.

 

[outhouse]

You are arguing over nothing. What difference does the name of the deity or the time of the books, etc matter? It makes no difference! The whole Bilbe, except for Genesis (which was written after exodus retrospectively), refers back to Exodus. Exodus portrays very clearly (you did read the verses I posted didn't you...just a section of Exodus...can post more if you need me to) the scene.....worshipping a bloody volcano! The events of Exodus shaped the religion. Every word in Exodus is critical. Forget the NT. That is window dressing.

I have never seen a worse guess as to how the OT was contructed.

Your throwing darts in a darkroom



You really should know what your talking about before you post misinformation

 

[outhouse]

worshipping a bloody volcano!

since when is describing events considered as worshipping.



Not once in the bible does any scripture describe hebrews worshipping a volcano

 

[The Fog Horn]

since when is describing events considered as worshipping.



Not once in the bible does any scripture describe hebrews worshipping a volcano

The word volcano is not used (tellingly) but how on earth can you say that after all the verses I've posted? Unbelievable. The Exodus extracts I posted paint the picture very clearly. Arriving at a mountain of fire with clouds above, mountain trembles and makes a trumpeting noise, everyone runs for cover, Moses dares it and climbs the mount, he sees his god in the devouring fire at the top of the mountain, his face becomes sweaty, he come down with his (oops...sorry....god's laws) and they all live happily ever after under the new rules.

Does that not sounds like a volcano to you?

You might like this video...

[youtube]XtI-lSvS028[/youtube]
Was God a Volcano? - YouTube

One must wonder why a person, faced with so much evidence, chooses to not see.