God/Yahweh/Allah I BELIEVE started as volcanic activity

[outhouse]

You still have failed to show worship to a volcanic deity, epic fail at that.


I do see alot of want and wishing going on.


Moses was created and written about almost a thousand years after yahweh is first mentioned in egyptian writing.

During that thousand years other volcanic deities were created but NOT ONCE was yahweh described as simular to the volcanic deity.

Because they described ALL natures wrath brought on by a deity including fire and water and storm and earthquakes,,,,,, DOES NOT make yahweh a volcanic deity. Hebrews were very clear about their volcanic deity.

BUT I see you love ignoring facts for personal fantasy

 

[The Fog Horn]

poeticnonprofit....please make sure you're comments are relevant to the thread you've chosen unless you want to waste your time.

Outhouse. Do you realise you have used the term 'epic fail' in pretty much every comment you've made? Are you usually this condescending?

How can you possibly say yahweh has not been described as a volcano? I have posted loads of verses that show otherwise! Fire, water, storm and earthquakes....ALL derived from a volcano or seismic activity!

You keep contradicting yourself. At the start of your comment you say...

NOT ONCE was yahweh described as simular to the volcanic deity.

and then you say...

Hebrews were very clear about their volcanic deity.

Weird.....very very weird.

 

[The Fog Horn]

Posted on FB by an evangelical Christian who is very well known....

A man says to me, "Can you explain the seven trumpets of the Revelation?" No, but I can blow one in your ear, and warn you to escape from the wrath to come.
- Charles Haddon Spurgeon

...to which I replied with the following....

I believe the trumpets were sometimes a metaphor for trumpeting volcanoes. Volcanoes make a trumpeting noise when they are about to erupt.

'Blow a trumpet in Zion; sound an alarm on my holy mountain! Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble, for the day of the LORD is coming; it is near'. Joel 2:1

And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. Exodus 20:18

On the morning of the third day there was thunder and lightning, with a thick cloud over the mountain, and a very loud trumpet blast. Everyone in the camp trembled. Exodus 19.16

And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice. Exodus 19:19

Mount Sinai was covered with smoke, because the LORD descended on it in fire. The smoke billowed up from it like smoke from a furnace, the whole mountain trembled violently. Exodus 19:18.

Please Outhouse....no need to smack your head again and say 'epic fail'. I know you think it. Leave it there.

 

[The Fog Horn]

http://bible.cc/deuteronomy/33-2.htm

Deuteronomy 33:2 He said: "The LORD came from Sinai and dawned over them from Seir; he shone forth from Mount Paran. He came with myriads of holy ones from the south, from his mountain slopes.

http://bible.cc/deuteronomy/33-2.htm

Sounds to me like volcanoes and vents popping their corks all over the place.

 

[The Fog Horn]

The opening two lines need to be focused on....god came from a 'Holy One'....from a mountain. 'Holy One' is, I believe, a term used to describe an eruption of magma.

Habakkuk 3:3 NIV

 

[outhouse]

Hebrews were very clear about their volcanic deity.

You may have a reading problem because I already posted a volcanic deity in this thread that was not yahweh.

 

[Breathe]

So the use of the word volcano is not needed and the use of the term 'Lord of war' doesn't indicate a warrier waving swords but is a metaphor for someone or something believed to be acting AS a Lord of war. Volcanic activity that resulted in the tsunami that killed the Egyptian army would have given the Hebrews the idea the volcano was their Lord of war.....so they went off to the volcano or any other volcano to have a look at their god. Up to the volcano to see where 'he resides'. The absense of the word volcano in the Bible speaks volumes. It certainly does not mean the Hebrews never encountered volcanoes. It means they had other terms and names for them....'Most High', etc...

'a mountain made for thee (god) to dwell in'

Why is it that your idea of lord of war being metaphor for volcanoes is okay, but the idea of the Hebrew deity's attributes you've shown being hyperbole and metaphor added in by writers later on appear so repugnant and wrong, in your view?

 

[outhouse]

Outhouse. Do you realise you have used the term 'epic fail' in pretty much every comment you've made?

because you have been shown the errors of your ways but ignore information and continue to spread misinformation.

Are you usually this condescending?

to misinofrmation I am

How can you possibly say yahweh has not been described as a volcano?

How can you claim thats all he is??????????????????

I have posted loads of verses that show otherwise! Fire, water, storm and earthquakes....ALL derived from a volcano or seismic activity!

thisis where i have issue. You tie all fire related content into volcanic activity. You do the same with the rest no matter how the content you ignore states itself.

You keep contradicting yourself. At the start of your comment you say...

Im sorry but that is a sign of desperation on your part, twisting my words and taking them out of context as you do biblical passages.

 

[The Fog Horn]

Why is it that your idea of lord of war being metaphor for volcanoes is okay, but the idea of the Hebrew deity's attributes you've shown being hyperbole and metaphor added in by writers later on appear so repugnant and wrong, in your view?

The answer to your question is in your question. 'Added in later' should give you a clue.

 

[Breathe]

The answer to your question is in your question. 'Added in later' should give you a clue.

Please be more specific; I'm no good with vague statements.

 

[The Fog Horn]

Oh come on! The further away you get from the origins the least factual the information will be. Added later...Chinese Whsipers. Exodus is the origin.

 

[Breathe]

Oh come on! The further away you get from the origins the least factual the information will be. Added later...Chinese Whsipers. Exodus is the origin.

I thought this was what you meant.

Problem is Exodus is not the origin. Exodus was written a long time afterwards. We know it wasn't written by Moses. We don't know how much of it is actually accurate. None of the recorded stories have any witnesses and may not have happened. This is why the 'thunder of the LORD' and such is, more likely, going to be hyperbole and metaphor for their deity's might and such, and is less likely going to be literal. Languages have many idioms, and Hebrew, and Biblical Hebrew, is no exceptions. "Poke fun at", "yell to you're blue in the face", "tickled pink", "on cloud nine" and so on are not literal, and native speakers are not going to take them literally. Problem is, are non-natives going to?

 

[The Fog Horn]

Problem is Exodus is not the origin

Exodus the book or Exodus the events? Please provide evidence or back up your statement.

 

[outhouse]

Exodus the book or Exodus the events? Please provide evidence or back up your statement.

I have already posted this information and given it to you

wiki exodus

 

[Breathe]

Exodus the book or Exodus the events? Please provide evidence or back up your statement.

The book, definitely. Information has been provided by outhouse before.
The events in the book are not even wholly historical. There were no witnesses to the story. If we assumed for a moment that the traditional date of 1313BCE was accurate.. it only appeared in an early draft of the current form around the time of the Babylonian exile. That's quite a distance for oral tradition to change, alter, and re-tell.
The book is a compilation of more than one source.
We don't even know how much of the events of Exodus happened, even in a small part. We know the Jewish people were, most likely, never slaves. There is no reason to believe Moses existed, or if the idea of Moses came from several men who were later mythified and had miraculous stories happen around them.

It wasn't until almost 2,000 years after the Great Pyramid received its capstone that the earliest known record shows evidence of Jews in Egypt, and they were neither Hebrews nor Israelites. They were a garrison of soldiers from the Persian Empire, stationed on Elephantine, an island in the Nile, beginning in about 650 BCE. They fought alongside the Pharaoh's soldiers in the Nubian campaign, and later became the principal trade portal between Egypt and Nubia. Their history is known from the Elephantine Papyri discovered in 1903, which are in Aramaic, not Hebrew; and their religious beliefs appear to have been a mixture of Judaism and pagan polytheism. Archival records recovered include proof that they observed Shabbat and Passover, and also records of interfaith marriages. In perhaps the strangest reversal from pop pseudohistory, the papyri include evidence that at least some of the Jewish settlers at Elephantine owned Egyptian slaves.

Source: Did Jewish Slaves Build the Pyramids?

And so on, and so on..

 

[The Fog Horn]

The reason why I can see what I can see and why you cannot is because you are looking for dates and evidence to correlate. That is your focus. My focus is not on dates but on human beings. When or by wholm the books were written is irrelevant. The workings of the minds of the people who inspired the stories in the books is what can tell us what we need to know. The Jews believe their god is the god of the people who inspired the stories in the Old Testament. The people who lived in those times believed their god resided in volcanoes. That is provable. All you need to do is read the OT, picture the scene, remember these people didn't know what a volcano was and put the vocabularly used to describe scenes with the way volcanic activity could be described....and you will not fail to see a correlation. The reason I believe this volcano worship is the start of Judaism is because the whole Bible refers back to this time. Don't forget the time when........

 

[Breathe]

The reason why I can see what I can see and why you cannot is because you are looking for dates and evidence to correlate. That is your focus.

It's not, though. Quite the contrary.

 

[The Fog Horn]

Ok so the Bible portrays a time when nomadic people believed volcanic activity was their god and they even believed their leader had spoken 'face to face' with their god, who resided in the volcano, and they have passed on for posterity the comings and going of life at the base of volcanoes, and the volcanic eruptions that ensured.....and you think that was ficticiously made up to convince Jews they had a legitimate past and to reinforce some sort of monotheistic, all knowing deity? Don't you think that if the Jews were to make something up they would not have chosen this bizarre storyline? There is only one possible explanation for this......it DID happen....the Hebrews (or whatever they were at the time....what difference does it make?) believed their god was a volcanic god.

Probably everywhere where volcanoes erupted during ancient times, volcano gods existed in people's minds. The Santorini eruption, the Jordan Rift Valley, the volcanoes of Saudi......of course the area will have been full of bedoins and nomads who believed these fantastic things were 'their' gods. Why would it be any different there than elsewhere in the world? The very ommision of 'volcano' from the Bible and the (to date) ommission of volcano gods in the volcanic area in question should act as a big red flag that volcanos and volcano gods were not absent but very significant.

How many people knew at the start of reading this thread that Saudi is a hot bed for volcanic activity? I bet not a lot. How many people knew about the Jordan Rift Valley and the tectonic shifts that have caused seismic activity? Not a lot. How many people had ever considered the connection between Santorini and the ten plagues? Not a lot. Most people know nothing about the geography and geology of the area in question. Talk about a critical ommission!

 

[outhouse]

The Jews believe their god is the god of the people who inspired the stories in the Old Testament.

before you state this you need to understand the change ancient early hebrews went through from polytheism to henotheism and then to monotheism.

Your also tending to force a literal interpretation of all text instead of understanding much of the early books were collections of allegory, poems, songs and metaphors and parables. the early works are completely fragmented and heavily edited. They started out as oral tradition that were slowly added to as different collectors collections grew. You had a northern version and a southern version welded together in many spots , I guess, as not to offend either tradition

The people who lived in those times believed their god resided in volcanoes. That is provable

No they didnt amd its not provable.

They had spirits and deities for volcanos and they made it very clear.

remember these people didn't know what a volcano was

Dont under estimate their intlelligence, they knew exactly what a volcano was.

They were alot smarter then you give them credit for. Civilizations they migrated rom could do rock and stone work we cannot recreate today

 

[outhouse]

believed their god was a volcanic god.

IF they did YOU would not need buckets of imagination to tie the two together. they would have made it very clear as they made it CRYSTAL CLEAR he was a warrior deity. Do you have to use imagination to see yahweh as a warrior deity??? Nope, they made it very clear who and what they worshipped and why.

What you forget is their deities to them were all powerfull that controlled all of nature and volcanos were a part of that to. But even yahwey is more of a storm warrior deity then volcano or even trembling mountain.

You also forget or dont know the deity yahweh in the bible is a combination of deities edited together to seem as one.