God/Yahweh/Allah I BELIEVE started as volcanic activity

[The Fog Horn]

Riverwolf...There was what amounted to a war between Moses and Pharaoh. Moses won, and thus, representing the Hebrews, won the spoils.

There was no war. Nothing amounted to a war. There was no fighting. There was no war booty. There was just a theft. It is stated very clearly. There is nothing misleading about the text. It was a sneaky theft. End of.

 

[Riverwolf]

There was no war. Nothing amounted to a war. There was no fighting. There was no war booty. There was just a theft. It is stated very clearly. There is nothing misleading about the text. It was a sneaky theft. End of.

Wait a minute, I just realized something.

The text reads:

35. And the children of Israel did according to Moses' order, and they borrowed from the Egyptians silver objects, golden objects, and garments.

And the very next verse reads:

36. The Lord gave the people favor in the eyes of the Egyptians, and they lent them, and they emptied out Egypt.

Seems we were both wrong: the Egyptians just gave the stuff to the Hebrews. There was no theft at all.

 

[The Fog Horn]

The Hebrews tricked the Egyptians into lending them their prized possessions and they then left! Please look into things before trying to argue with people.

 

[Riverwolf]

The Hebrews tricked the Egyptians into lending them their prized possessions and they then left! Please look into things before trying to argue with people.

Not seeing anything in the text indicating trickery.

 

[The Fog Horn]

What version of Bible are you refering to?

 

[The Fog Horn]

Every woman is to ask her neighbor and any woman living in her house for articles of silver and gold and for clothing, which you will put on your sons and daughters. And so you will plunder the Egyptians." Ex 3:22

The Israelites did as Moses instructed and asked the Egyptians for articles of silver and gold and for clothing. Ex 12:35

The LORD had made the Egyptians favorably disposed toward the people, and they gave them what they asked for; so they plundered the Egyptians. Ex 12:36

How you cannot see the trickery in this I do not know. This is not just theft but fraud. This incident proves not only that the Hebrews fooled their employers but it also proves their employers trusted them enough to borrow their prizes possessions. This proves the Hebrews could not have been slaves but most likely servants treated as part of the family. The slavery story was probably fabricated to justify the theft. This is how psychopaths justify bad behaviour.....'He made me do it!'....'I had to do it!'.....'I am the victim!'....

 

[Riverwolf]

What version of Bible are you refering to?

There are no "versions"; only translations. The only "version" of the Torah that exists is in Hebrew.

This is a Jewish translation:

The Complete Tanach with Rashi - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible

But if you want a Christian translation, I did double-check the New English Bible (a Catholic Bible, I believe) for its translation of the text:

"Meanwhile the Israelites had done as Moses had told them, asking the Egyptians for jewellery of silver and gold and for clothing. As the Lord had made the Egyptians well-disposed towards them, they let them have what they asked; in this way they plundered the Egyptians."

Though the use of the word "plundered" is kind of odd, since it contradicts the statement that they asked the Egyptians for the stuff, and the latter just let the former at it.

 

[Riverwolf]

How you cannot see the trickery in this I do not know. This is not just theft but fraud. This incident proves not only that the Hebrews fooled their employers but it also proves their employers trusted them enough to borrow their prizes possessions. This proves the Hebrews could not have been slaves but most likely servants treated as part of the family. The slavery story was probably fabricated to justify the theft. This is how psychopaths justify bad behaviour.....'He made me do it!'....'I had to do it!'.....'I am the victim!'....

3:22:

22. Each woman shall borrow from her neighbor and from the dweller in her house silver and gold objects and garments, and you shall put [them] on your sons and on your daughters, and you shall empty out Egypt."

What translation are you using?

 

[The Fog Horn]

Have you never heard of fraud before??? That is what this is! Fraudulent theft! The Hebrews tricked their employers into handing over the goods and then left unexpectedly. The Egyptians eventually realised the Hebrews had scarpered with the goods and realised their stupidity in trusting them. The Hebrews fooled and plundered the Egyptians.

 

[The Fog Horn]

1. deliberate deception, trickery, or cheating intended to gain an advantage
2. an act or instance of such deception
3. something false or spurious his explanation was a fraud
4. Informal a person who acts in a false or deceitful way

fraud - definition of fraud by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

 

[Riverwolf]

Have you never heard of fraud before???

What's with the three question marks?

That is what this is! Fraudulent theft!

Not really.

The Hebrews tricked their employers into handing over the goods and then left unexpectedly. The Egyptians eventually realised the Hebrews had scarpered with the goods and realised their stupidity in trusting them. The Hebrews fooled and plundered the Egyptians.

Not seeing it. I'm seeing that the Egyptians, in their grief, basically went all emo and stopped caring about these treasures (after all, the greatest treasure had just been taken from them.) Therefore, when the Israelites asked for provisions, they were just given away.

 

[Riverwolf]

1. deliberate deception, trickery, or cheating intended to gain an advantage
2. an act or instance of such deception
3. something false or spurious his explanation was a fraud
4. Informal a person who acts in a false or deceitful way

fraud - definition of fraud by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

I know what fraud is. I don't see it here.

 

[The Fog Horn]

Sorry....no point discussing this with you anymore. It's a well know fact the Hebrews defrauded the Egyptians in order to leave Egypt with plenty of valuables. If you think differently then so be it.

 

[Riverwolf]

Sorry....no point discussing this with you anymore. It's a well know fact the Hebrews defrauded the Egyptians in order to leave Egypt with plenty of valuables. If you think differently then so be it.

Well-known by whom? You're the first one I've ever seen make that case.

 

[outhouse]

Sorry....no point discussing this with you anymore. It's a well know fact the Hebrews defrauded the Egyptians in order to leave Egypt with plenty of valuables. If you think differently then so be it.

There were no hebrews in egypt, they didnt exist as a culture their, and they were not a enslaved race to egyptians.



Please learn history if you choose to debate it.

 

[cablescavenger]

However, using suppositions aren't enough to form a solid hypothesis. They're just speculation and opinion, nothing more.

I would agree there. Though I would add that this already has a body of work behind it, and appears to be speculation that is carrying more support.

What's also quite intriging is that, from this part of the world (Eurasia), the King of Gods is often a storm God or warrior God (the latter of which YHWH clearly is). Odin, Zeus, Indra...

A more likely speculation is that YHWH is an evolution of yet another form of this King of Gods. (Much like what would happen to Zeus in later Greek religion.) But even that's just a speculation, and WAY too simple.

Again, volcanic activity may have inspired some aspects of YHWH, but chances are strong that the deity existed without volcanic activity.

I think it may be true that the deity existed beforehand, deity was nothing new, but what if the deity did became one from within the earth via volcano?

You say YHWH is a warrior God, that may be true, but that is at a tangent to this thread, which looks for belief that the original God is inspired by volcanic activity.

Like I said, this is not my theory, so supporting it or denigrating it are not my goal, but I do find it intriguing, as I have said before, and I intend to do more reading around it.

It might even drive me into reading some of the bible

 

[Riverwolf]

I would agree there. Though I would add that this already has a body of work behind it, and appears to be speculation that is carrying more support.

Having books behind a speculation doesn't mean much. There's a lot of books that support Scientology.

I think it may be true that the deity existed beforehand, deity was nothing new, but what if the deity did became one from within the earth via volcano?

You say YHWH is a warrior God, that may be true, but that is at a tangent to this thread, which looks for belief that the original God is inspired by volcanic activity.

The point is that the deity was most likely not originally inspired by volcanic activity, which is the OP's argument.

Like I said, this is not my theory, so supporting it or denigrating it are not my goal, but I do find it intriguing, as I have said before, and I intend to do more reading around it.

It might even drive me into reading some of the bible

Well, I believe the book should be required reading, if nothing more as understanding where a lot of our culture comes form.

 

[cablescavenger]

Having books behind a speculation doesn't mean much. There's a lot of books that support Scientology.



The point is that the deity was most likely not originally inspired by volcanic activity, which is the OP's argument.



Well, I believe the book should be required reading, if nothing more as understanding where a lot of our culture comes form.

I have read it before, and it is not high on my to do list to read it again. I am not fond of fiction, particularly if it is poorly thought out.

 

[Riverwolf]

I have read it before, and it is not high on my to do list to read it again. I am not fond of fiction, particularly if it is poorly thought out.

It's not fiction. Fiction is stories that are presented as made-up; non-fiction is presented as real, regardless of whether or not it actually is.

The Bible is also not a single story; it's a collection of various stories, poems, ethical texts, and prophetic visions compiled into a single corpus.

I, personally, LOVE fiction, though, and I also love old myths. ^_^

 

[The Fog Horn]

A relevant article......it's all coming out....

Gordon Napier History: Was God a Volcano?