God's conditional love

[Truthseeker]

"For you [God] love all things that exist, and detest none of the things that you have made, for you would not have made anything if you had hated it. How would anything have endured if you had not willed it? Or how would anything not called forth by you have been preserved? You spare all things, for they are yours, O Lord, you who love the living."

In the Hidden Words of Baha'u'llah it is said:

O Son of Man! Veiled in My immemorial being and in the ancient eternity of My essence, I knew My love for thee; therefore I created thee, have engraved on thee Mine image and revealed to thee My beauty.
Bahá’u’lláh, "The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh", a3

O Son of Man! I loved thy creation, hence I created thee. Wherefore, do thou love Me, that I may name thy name and fill thy soul with the spirit of life.
Bahá’u’lláh, "The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh", a4

 

[Truthseeker]

God is trying to find a way to redeem us through his compassion and wants us to enter paradise out of his grace, but if we become hateful towards God and his light and don't respond to the call of God and his Messengers, we've really wasted our lives and belittled God's sanctity in this case, the proper response is his wrath and anger.

O Son of Being! Love Me, that I may love thee. If thou lovest Me not, My love can in no wise reach thee. Know this, O servant.
Bahá’u’lláh, "The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh", a5

 

[Truthseeker]

I don't believe God will send me, or anyone else to Hell.

We send ourselves to hell sometimes.

 

[Truthseeker]

"How ignorant therefore the thought that God who created man, educated and nurtured him, surrounded him with all blessings, made the sun and all phenomenal existence for his benefit, bestowed upon him tenderness and kindness, and then did not love him. This is palpable ignorance, for no matter to what religion a man belongs even though he be an atheist or materialist nevertheless God nurtures him, bestows His kindness and sheds upon him His light."

('Abdu'l-Baha, Star of the West, Vol. 8, issue 7, p. 78)

I don't remember seeing that before!

I just looked it up it's also in the Promulgation of Universal Peace.

 

[JustGeorge]

We send ourselves to hell sometimes.

Indeed, but that is more of a state of being, rather than a physical plane, in my opinion.

 

[Truthseeker]

Indeed, but that is more of a state of being, rather than a physical plane, in my opinion.

Yes, that's right. Hell is condition, not a place. In it's most important form , it is being far from God spiritually, though we can be in a kind of emotional hell, too.

 

[firedragon]

Why is God's love for us conditional on us believing in him and doing what he says?

If a person didn't believe in me and didn't do what I told them to then I wouldn't not love them because of that

It wouldn't even bother me yet God would send such people to Hell because of this

So why is it that way with God? Why is his love so conditional?

Who created this caricature of God? Could you please explain where you are getting this from? I think its a valid question but it seems like you are getting this information from some kind of caricature. So you should typically explain your source of information. Who is God sending to hell? What for? Is it because people just dont believe in a God? What are the nuances?

Try and explain if you have time!

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, that's right. Hell is condition, not a place. In it's most important form , it is being far from God spiritually, though we can be in a kind of emotional hell, too.

Hell is also having to live in this house with all the critters outside and in the attic and crawl space and garage and who knows where else?
I am not referring to the cats, heaven is everywhere the cats are.
I really have no choice but to cling to these verses.

“O My servants! Sorrow not if, in these days and on this earthly plane, things contrary to your wishes have been ordained and manifested by God, for days of blissful joy, of heavenly delight, are assuredly in store for you. Worlds, holy and spiritually glorious, will be unveiled to your eyes. You are destined by Him, in this world and hereafter, to partake of their benefits, to share in their joys, and to obtain a portion of their sustaining grace. To each and every one of them you will, no doubt, attain.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 329

 

[1213]

...
So why is it that way with God? Why is his love so conditional?

I don't think God's love is conditional. He is good for all, and does not do anything evil to anyone.

But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you, that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.
Mat. 5:44-45

 

[Clara Tea]

Why is God's love for us conditional on us believing in him and doing what he says?

If a person didn't believe in me and didn't do what I told them to then I wouldn't not love them because of that

It wouldn't even bother me yet God would send such people to Hell because of this

So why is it that way with God? Why is his love so conditional?

Lets say that God's followers make a golden calf idol, and mankind then worships that graven image. Soon they may lose faith in God and gain faith in the inanimate clump of gold.

When people worship a clump more than God, they no longer heed God.

God wrote Revelation, and communicated it psychically to Saint John the Divine (who put it in the new testament bible). In Revelation, God issues yet another commandment that prohibits destruction of Iraq.

Presidents who lost faith in God defy God and attack Iraq even though warned not to. They were also warned not to kill (thou shalt not kill), and warned to "turn the other cheek."

This defiance comes from not recognizing God's words in the bible. Some reverends defy God by trying to rewrite revelation. They say that there must be some other Babylon, and the real Babylon is not it.

These strayed presidents believe modern preachers, without realizing that in these end times, we have been warned against listening to false interpretations of the bible from modern preachers.

God made the condition that we follow him because only if we believe in God will we heed God's messages to the world.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Why is God's love for us conditional on us believing in him and doing what he says?

I truly believe the reason for this is because it is hard to control the people's behavior you are trying to control if there are no consequences. So, the writer's of The Bible couldn't just write that "God loves you no matter what" and "It doesn't matter what you do, you will make it into heaven at God's side regardless, because He loves you." No one would ever write that because it would have rendered the text completely useless toward its purpose. It was meant to be a way to curtail people's unsavory behavior, while also getting them to do things deemed positive for the community (tithe, honor their neighbors and so forth), and it is written as a sort of manual for how to live life to appease some ethereal, unknowable thing that can then also be blamed for the institution of any and all rules anyone doesn't really like. "It's not me!" says the preacher to any and all complaints, "it's God!"

If a person didn't believe in me and didn't do what I told them to then I wouldn't not love them because of that

If a person literally didn't believe in me, even though I was standing right there, talking to them, and others verified that yes, they could see and detect me, and when I went and (lightly) pushed that person, they reacted, etc. - then I would just think there was something very, very wrong with them in the head.

If a person didn't believe in me and I was nowhere to be found and had never presented myself to them in their entire life, however? Well then it would be ME who was not quite right in the head if I literally expected them to still believe in me! This honestly doesn't seem like that hard a concept to understand or that difficult a thought to come to regarding this stuff... but some people still make all sorts of excuses for why God supposedly/apparently behaves this way. I don't know... I think it's really, really dumb.

So why is it that way with God? Why is his love so conditional?

It's the people who wrote The Bible, who wanted to only conditionally accept other people, but didn't want to say that themselves - so instead they put it on God. Cowards, in other words. Abject, nasty little cowards.

 

[DNB]

Why is God's love for us conditional on us believing in him and doing what he says?

If a person didn't believe in me and didn't do what I told them to then I wouldn't not love them because of that

It wouldn't even bother me yet God would send such people to Hell because of this

So why is it that way with God? Why is his love so conditional?

On what justifiable grounds would it not be conditional? What does the one and only, holy and transcendent God have to do with an atheist, a satanist or a murderer?
What lesson does a father teach his children when he allows them to disobey him, curse him, or spit in his face?
How can one build a sinless kingdom with subjects who don't care about righteousness, respect and decency, and who prefer to do the opposite.

Love must be free, therefore humans must be fee to chose that which attracts them. But, freedom is a great responsibility and comes at a price - people make their own beds.
God has not rejected anyone, they have rejected Him, and it serves no purpose to compel them by force or coercion to do that which their heart is not inclined to do.

 

[Fool]

Why is God's love for us conditional on us believing in him and doing what he says?

it isn't. doing what you want isn't necessarily doing what is loving.

If a person didn't believe in me and didn't do what I told them to then I wouldn't not love them because of that

a healthy parent doesn't make those kind of statements; even though they are trying to teach the idea of compassion, empathy, altruism.

It wouldn't even bother me yet God would send such people to Hell because of this

god doesn't send people to hell. the absence of love towards other as self, or absence of love towards all, leaves one isolated in their own making, hell. why blame the loving; when self wasn't loving?

So why is it that way with God? Why is his love so conditional?

doing what is loving and doing what is hateful, or selfish, is conditional and blaming another is psychologically immature.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Why is God's love for us conditional on us believing in him and doing what he says?

If a person didn't believe in me and didn't do what I told them to then I wouldn't not love them because of that

It wouldn't even bother me yet God would send such people to Hell because of this

So why is it that way with God? Why is his love so conditional?

Obviously you mean the Hebrew god. Gods are usually made in the image of the people who made them up.

 

[Sand Dancer]

If a parent tells his child not to play with fire and the child plays with fire and the parent punishes the child, that does not mean the parent does not love the child. Playing with fire could cause serious injury to the child and the punishment is to teach the child not to do something that can be harmful. God also makes rules and may punish people who break the rules. But the rules are to prevent the person from doing something that may be harmful.

But the Hebrew god banishes folks to eternal hell. There is no learning or improving on behavior, attitude, etc. Not nice...

 

[Bird123]

Why is God's love for us conditional on us believing in him and doing what he says?

If a person didn't believe in me and didn't do what I told them to then I wouldn't not love them because of that

It wouldn't even bother me yet God would send such people to Hell because of this

So why is it that way with God? Why is his love so conditional?

I can see the light shining from your eyes.

Yes, you are right. God being this way does not add up. Further, it isn't even an intelligent way for God to be.

The answer is to question those who describe God in this way.

So much is said about God that simple isn't true. Religions reflect mankind more than anyone else.

Control is one of those petty things mankind holds so dear. Mankind likes to place conditions on everything.

You are right. It has never ever been about believing.

If all the physics of this world add up perfectly, so does the people factor. The people factor is much more complicated simply because there are so many more variables.

Logic: If God is smart enough to create Universes, God is surely capable of creating children without having to fry the lot of them in Hell.

Deep down we all know God whether we realize this or not. If it doesn't add up, it isn't God.

Since God is at a Higher Level, God can only be Unconditional Love.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Eddi]

On what justifiable grounds would it not be conditional?

\
If you are a good person then it should be unconditional

So yes, it should be conditional. But once you satisfy this first condition (being good) there should be no further tests

As it is, you can be a good person and then go to Hell

 

[Brian2]

\
If you are a good person then it should be unconditional

So yes, it should be conditional. But once you satisfy this first condition (being good) there should be no further tests

As it is, you can be a good person and then go to Hell

It would be great to actually be a good person, but as Jesus said, 'only God is good'.
All the rest of us need the mercy of God.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I don't think God's love is conditional. He is good for all, and does not do anything evil to anyone.

But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you, that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.
Mat. 5:44-45

God's love is conditional by John 3:16 alone. Maybe it's more whoever wants to accept his conditions may benefit but it's definitely not unconditional. The events in the bible prove that there are conditions to even receive god's forgiveness. If those who don't believe get the same benefits as those who do then it's unconditional. If they do not (whether non-believers are consequenced or they just die by default), it's conditional.

Even the term god alone makes it conditional. If something/someone is an object or person of worship and the purpose is to worship, those that don't, well. Maybe unconditional would be if god was a friend not a parent.

 

[DNB]

\
If you are a good person then it should be unconditional

So yes, it should be conditional. But once you satisfy this first condition (being good) there should be no further tests

As it is, you can be a good person and then go to Hell

I do not believe that your definition of good is accurate. No one loves their brother as themselves, no one is without sin. We are all selfish, hypocritical and degenerate.
God gave us life, and the ability to love one another - who has shown gratitude towards Him, commensurate to what He has made available to us?
For all the years that you've spent on earth, how many hours worth of prayers or praise have you spent towards Him?
No one is good Eddi, don't compare yourself with other humans. Consider who your Maker is, His power and His magnitude, and then reflect on where you stand with Him.