God's conditional love

[Trailblazer]

Well, thank you for putting atheists is the same bucket as murderers. Do you really think atheists are inherent bad people?

I do not think that atheists are bad at all, and they certainly are not in the same bucket as murderers, not unless they are murderers. Dollars to donuts there are more murderers who are believers than atheists.

How many criminals are atheist?

Overall, almost 1 in every 1,000 prisoners will identify as atheist compared to 1 in every 100 Americans.Mar 12, 2015

Are Prisoners Less Likely To Be Atheists? | FiveThirtyEight

Not being convinced God exists doesn't mean we want to disobey him or we don't care about righteousness.

That is absolutely true.

Did God give you sufficient reason to believe in Him? If so, why couldn't I get sufficient reason to believe in Him? It doesn't have to be by "force or coercion". I'm open to the existence of God. Just give me sufficient reason.

I would say that all people are all different so they need different reasons for believing in God. The Bible might be a sufficient reason for some people but it is not sufficient for everyone. Where have you looked for a sufficient reason to believe in God?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes, but it's a contradiction, isn't it?

Given: we have been given free-will to choose our own path in life.

Some people will be believers, and some will turn away from belief, for whatever reason.
As Almighty God is the "Fairest of All Judges", it follows that
God will not turn away from anybody, WITHOUT GOOD REASON.
i.e. He accepts both atheist and theist 's sincere repentance

The problem for us, is that if we go "too far", it becomes extremely difficult to change.

God's love is unconditional, BUT if we die in a state of disbelief,
we fail the chance to be righteous.

Would YOU trust somebody who knowingly turns their back on truth? No?
Nor does Almighty God..

..bearing in mind, that God is not a "person". He is unique, absolute, and is neither male or female, and non-physical.

Physical beings are God's creatures.
God is more of an obscure concept, rather than of this world.

I don't believe so. It's by strict definition. If god has unconditional love there wouldn't be a bible full of conditions in which all biblical followers must adhere to. There'd be no sacrifices, no chosen ones, no evil ones, no believe/non-believer, ultimatums or strings attached (I gave free will but if you disobey my conditions it's your fault).

Free-will sets a person up to disobey. Unconditional love doesn't have such a set up.

If you fall down, conditional love will pick you up if you ask.
If you fall down, unconditional love will pick you up regardless if you ask or not.

Why would christians want free will if that free will gives that christian an option to sin?

Do christians want to feel better that they can choose suffering in order to choose not to suffer (those actions we intentionally commit)?

If god is 100% unconditional love why would you want conditions to break in order to experience it?

 

[muhammad_isa]

If you fall down, unconditional love will pick you up regardless if you ask or not..

How, exactly?
For example, if somebody is a paedophile, how does God "pick them up" without the person repenting?
i.e. sincere intention to reform

Why would christians want free will if that free will gives that christian an option to sin?

It's not about what we want .. we don't have much choice, do we?
..the price of being a human .. we have responsibility.

 

[Brian2]

"Who soever believes" brings a condition to his love.
If it were god loved the world for all people have everlasting life, then its unconditional.

It's a God loves the world unconditionally statement and wanting a response from us.
God did not require anything from us before sending Jesus to suffer and die for us.

 

[Kenny]

Maybe no ones fault. But if that means you would go to hell (like the OP suggested) I would consider that immoral.

Understandable... but, IMO fortunately, it isn't man that judges the heart... it is a merciful God that does.

Yes, I'm "thirsty". Not necessarily to know and love God, but first of all to know if God is real. After that, we"ll see.

No further questions, your Honor.

I like that! That was funny.

Sometimes it is the proverbial elephant in the room. IMV, you don't have to look too far.

 

[Trailblazer]

God did not require anything from us before sending Jesus to suffer and die for us.

God did not require anything from the Jews who lived before Jesus appeared on Earth? What about the Ten Commandments?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

How, exactly?
For example, if somebody is a paedophile, how does God "pick them up" without the person repenting?
i.e. sincere intention to reform

If any person sinned unconditional love wouldn't look at that. It has no strings attached. I would think the type of sin is irrelevant to god. That only matters to humans and the law.

Conditional love tells you to repent (If you fall down, conditional love will pick you up if you ask) Unconditional love doesn't have that.

It's not about what we want .. we don't have much choice, do we? ..the price of being a human .. we have responsibility.

Unconditional love doesn't see limitations because "we are human."

What do you want spiritually that you feel you can't have?
Why do you believe your choice is limited (or has conditions) because you are human?

 

[muhammad_isa]

If any person sinned unconditional love wouldn't look at that...

You're not making any sense now.
"unconditional love" can't look at anything. It is a concept without awareness.

PS you haven't explained how a paedophile that carries on repeating his crimes will be "picked up" by this mysterious "unconditional love"
by waving a magic wand, you mean? .. no free-will then..

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You're not making any sense now.
"unconditional love" can't look at anything. It is a concept without awareness.

PS you haven't explained how a paedophile that carries on repeating his crimes will be "picked up" by this mysterious "unconditional love"
by waving a magic wand, you mean? .. no free-will then..

God has conditional love not unconditional. A god with unconditional love will not wait until a sinner repents (regardless the sin). He would forgive regardless.

You didn't add all those details. A god with unconditional love wouldn't withhold his love from Any type of sinner whether or not she is a pedophile or a thief.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It's a God loves the world unconditionally statement and wanting a response from us.
God did not require anything from us before sending Jesus to suffer and die for us.

If it's unconditional he would die for all people not those who believe.

 

[DNB]

Well, thank you for putting atheists is the same bucket as murderers. Do you really think atheists are inherent bad people?

What do you think that God thinks about them?

Not being convinced God exists doesn't mean we want to disobey him or we don't care about righteousness.

The OP presupposes God's existence, that was the question. Consider it hypothetical, if you will. I answered accordingly.

Did God give you sufficient reason to believe in Him? If so, why couldn't I get sufficient reason to believe in Him? It doesn't have to be by "force or coercion". I'm open to the existence of God. Just give me sufficient reason.

What are you waiting for, a banner, writing in the sky, a burning bush? Is your existence and the universe not enough? Are you alive and on this earth by your own volition, was it simply by chance? Who taught you about love and righteousness, is the word 'love' meaningless?

 

[AppieB]

What do you think that God thinks about them?

The OP presupposes God's existence, that was the question. Consider it hypothetical, if you will. I answered accordingly.

I have no idea. But I was asking you. You're the one putting atheists and murderers in one bucket.

What are you waiting for, a banner, writing in the sky, a burning bush? Is your existence and the universe not enough? Are you alive and on this earth by your own volition, was it simply by chance? Who taught you about love and righteousness, is the word 'love' meaningless?

No, my existence and the universe is not sufficient reason to believe God exists. That's a non-sequitur. I'm alive because my parents had sex and that's how nature works.
There is no need to believe in God in order to know about love and righteousness.

 

[muhammad_isa]

A god with unconditional love will not wait until a sinner repents (regardless the sin). He would forgive regardless.

Almighty God is Wise. What is love?
You are suggesting an impossible scenario.

In this life, should society "love" everybody equally and give everybody sweeties regardless of their deeds?

There cannot be justice in that case.
One should not make God into an illogical concept.

That is why in order to understand, we need to realise that just as mankind has to take responsibility and have a criminal justice system, in order to create a society that is not "hell on earth", the concepts of heaven and hell similarly need to be rational.

Simply, unconditional love is a pipe-dream. It can't exist alongside fairness.

 

[AppieB]

Understandable... but, IMO fortunately, it isn't man that judges the heart... it is a merciful God that does.

If he is merciful, than I would assume that merely not believing in God is not a crime to be punished (actually, not a crima at all). If he would, I would judge that as inmoral.

I like that! That was funny.

Sometimes it is the proverbial elephant in the room. IMV, you don't have to look too far.

The "elephant in the room" theists suggest are non-sequiturs in my experience. I was just asked if being alive or the universe was not enough to believe God exists. Well, no.
Clearly that shouldn't be sufficient reason for anyone.

 

[Truthseeker]

Simply, unconditional love is a pipe-dream. It can't exist alongside fairness.

Your position is understandable, but look at it from another perspective. A parent can unconditionally love a child, but he also needs to punish his or her child to correct his child's behavior. I don't mean striking a child or verbal abuse while you're doing this. The punishment can be administered while talking lovingly to the child, and letting him/her know that you love him/her.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Your position is understandable, but look at it from another perspective. A parent can unconditionally love a child, but he also needs to punish his or her child to correct his child's behavior..

Yes, of course.
However, this does not address the issue of a non-repentant person that continues to rape people, for example.

Almighty God can have "love" for all of us, but that does NOT mean that our intentions and deeds are of no consequence.

The OP is talking about everybody being "treated the same".
It is not logical to assume that that is even possible.

 

[muhammad_isa]

If he is merciful, than I would assume that merely not believing in God is not a crime to be punished (actually, not a crima at all). If he would, I would judge that as inmoral.

Almighty God knows what is in our hearts better than we do ourselves.
Pyschologists will tell you that we often "lie to ourselves"
and start believing the lie. We have complex minds.

God will not wrong anybody. It is not about labels, or what we say to people. It is about our deepest intentions and their sincerity.

A "non-guilty" disbeliever has nothing to worry about
A "Fair Judge" cannot wrong anybody by definition.

 

[Truthseeker]

Yes, of course.
However, this does not address the issue of a non-repentant person that continues to rape people, for example.

Almighty God can have "love" for all of us, but that does NOT mean that our intentions and deeds are of no consequence.

The OP is talking about everybody being "treated the same".
It is not logical to assume that that is even possible.

It's not about treating everybody the same. It's about conditional or unconditional love. You put someone who is unrepentant and continues to rape people in prison, but I don't see that means that's it's impossible to love that person, especially for God. Putting such a person in prison probably won't make him repentant, but God loves him while His love does not reach him. I recognize that putting him in prison probably will not correct his behavior, but nevertheless, this is needed to deter further crime. I see the abbreviation "OP" a lot here, and I know it refers to the theme of a thread, but don't know what words the abbreviation refers to.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I see the abbreviation "OP" a lot here, and I know it refers to the theme of a thread, but don't know what words the abbreviation refers to.

It can mean either "the opening post" or "the opening poster"
i.e. the topic or who it was started by

 

[Kenny]

If he is merciful, than I would assume that merely not believing in God is not a crime to be punished (actually, not a crima at all). If he would, I would judge that as inmoral.

I guess I just have a different perspective. If a person decided to leave home, take drugs, live homeless, and live a life of squalor, it wouldn't be for the lack of love of his/her parents nor would it be a judgment of the parents.

It was simply the choice of the child like the parable of the prodigal son.

But the Father was always waiting and received the son back when he decided to come home.

The "elephant in the room" theists suggest are non-sequiturs in my experience. I was just asked if being alive or the universe was not enough to believe God exists. Well, no.
Clearly that shouldn't be sufficient reason for anyone.

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be combative nor am I trying to suggest that the reasons you gave above are the elephants in the room.

Let me say it differently using words of another man:

“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you; Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink"

In other words, if one really seeks out God, He will make Himself known. He is the elephant in the room (so to speak),

I remember when I was in a bar appropriately named "Mac's Zoo Room" staring into a Tom Collins and wondering, "where are all the miracles that I have heard about in the Bible". Well, of course, the only miracles I had seen staring into a drink were pink elephants.

Eventually God revealed Himself. When He did, I looked into my past and realized there were moments where He actually was there all along, I just didn't see the elephant.